I guess it's how you take the post. That's certianly how I interpreted it. If I'm wrong, I apologize...but that just seemed the gist of it to me.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 10:15 pm: Edit

It did seem like he was looking for a major damage increase...

Hmmmm. Photon drones...

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 07:10 am: Edit

Yes, as they now are (in GW era) they, a IF, can reduce my shield by a third (or half if it's the rear shield). Wow!;)
Sure drones are terrain, and soak up phaser fire, but how fun is that? And yes I know drones can be a pain in the ass, but mostly when you have failed in your preparations some way like going to slow, Emer deceled without two weasels ready forgot to buy T-Bs etc.

But that is not much to someone who is used to the deadly weapons of today. ONE missile will blow up your ship! And, even if your point defences hit it, the momentum will still carry the debris all the way to your ship and do damage.

You know the type IV drone is called "Shipwreck" missiles, but just look at the Real thing and you realise how improper the name is on that (by comparison) whimpy drone is!

http://www.arcos.inf.uc3m.es/~juange/lro/00-01/grupos/mirror/www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jdw/jdw010910_6_n.shtml

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-n-19.htm

I am perfectly willing to say these deadlier drones should be to big for a scatterpack and only make them rack launched, effectively cutting down on their numbers. (makes it more like the real thing too)

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 08:31 am: Edit

Didn't the carnivons have some kind of uber-drone? Can't remember what it was called. Wasn't the heel-nipper, it was something else. Some kind of big drone.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 02:21 pm: Edit

You're thinking of the Bargantine Campaign and the Exodrone, I think.

Carl,
Cool power fantasy, very real-world, but not practical.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 02:25 pm: Edit

No, it was something else...some kind of weird hybrid thing from module Y that was like a drone but did lots of damage. I'll have to look it up later; haven't got my books with me.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Ah, I found it. The "Death Bolt". Maybe some form of 2X death bolt would fit the bill?

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 10:32 am: Edit

I forgot something important when writing my last post, so let me improve my idea a litt... LOT.
In RL ship size decide the number and lethality of the weapons. A small Patrol boat cannot carrry a big missile like the shipwreck, nor can it carry a phalanx close-in-defence system.
A russian "ROCKET" cruiser, OTOH, carry lots of BIG missiles, and defensive systems.

Death of all sizes:

Class four missiles are carried by sizeclass four ships. They are like Ordinary fast drones.
Or the Penguin and Sea Skua in RL.

Class three missiles are bigger, meaner and carried by sizeclass 3, 2 and 1(?) units
These are Harpoon and Exocet type AS missiles.

Class two are carried by DNs, and are like the shipwreck above.

The relationship between a ship and a drone of the same class(number) would be roughly like the GW era ships and fast drones.
But a "better" missile will be difficult to defend against for a lone ship.
A destroyer would have to take a CL3 missile seriously, for example. And run away from a CL2.
This work in steps of course, and have a cumulative effect. A single 2:nd class missile will cripple, or perhaps even destroy(?) a SC4 unit, (the defences would not be enough) And occupy the attention of a Cruiser.
(It would not bother a DN much however.)
While this seems to make the CL4 drones less useful they will be good in support roles, and in swarm attacks.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

Numbers, Carl.

Give us some numbers.

Speed, Damage to destroy, damage they do.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Numbers? Perhaps at the end of next week.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 08:13 pm: Edit

X2 Drones, when forced to HET, don't lose a movement.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:52 am: Edit

Perhaps.

It depends on whther type VII & VIII fit the bill, if so then why convolte the game with a change to alterations.

If something faster is need ( which will only happen if ships go faster than 32 ) then you coulkd throw that in as a special ability of the drones.

Perhaps you could touch up the Poundal drone switch so that if activated then on a drone that hasn't got a full external load ( no load of 0.5 spaces ) then it also gains the ability but then you'ld have to change the drone notation for a tiny little ability...then again maybe a + notation added to the drone would work.
Not many people HET their drones that often.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit

X2 Seahorse drones

Seahorse drones became used in X2 ships far more commonly than they had been in earlier drones ( if any existed at all ).
The seahorse drone was related to ECM drone in that it used a similar speed retardation divice.

Type VII & VIII drones could be given seahorse control modules for 0.25 BPV and the latter second generation X drones ( if any ) got the ability within their cost.


When an X seahorse drone is launched like an X drone a speed must be selected for it ( 8, 12, 20 or 32).
The drone will require two control channels, on to control the drone under it's seahorse ability and one to guide the drone.

The drone may accellerate or decellerate to standard speeds ( 8, 12, 20 & 32 but with external armour and no poundal mode switched on other speeds are possible ) and may only accellerate or decellerate by one standard speed jump and may not make a change in closer than 8 impulses apart.

If the drone is switched over to ATG then the ATG will control the speed changes, cause ing the drone to accellerate at it's maximum rate unti it reach top speed.


The Seahorse control module was used extensdively by the Klingons, launching their type VIII drones at speed 20, then launch speed 32 Type IX drones to incepted an drones launched to shoot down the drones and then switching the type VIII drones up to speed 32 to attck the target vessel.


Octopus setting
Second generation X ships and their drones got the ability to buy an octopus transceiver that allowed the drones to fire; Swordfish, Starfish and MW warheads, but at targets selected at the time of fire rather then the time of launch ( which is different to Random targeting ).

The octopus transceiver requires it's own drone control channel.

This ability costs 0.5 BPV per drone and second generation X drones got the ability built in.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Death of all sizes:

Class two Rockets* are carried by Kzinti DNs:

I am thinking of two drones per rack. The rack can launch two drones a turn, like the c-rack.
Each drone is a four space drone.
Speed 48. When the drone reach range six it accelerates and will on the following three impulses move four, six and eight hexes. All in the movement phase of the impulse. No other opportunitys for fire than the ordinary ones are allowed.
Because of their speed they are hard to tractor and any attempt will fail on a dice roll of six.
This is cumulative with EW.

This is just a VERY rough draft.

*well it's what the russian call it and it sounds nice!

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 01:05 am: Edit

If it's that great a weapon, the Kzintis wouldn't be satisfied with putting it only on their DN.

Just how would you defend against it?
Impulse 1 - range 6.
Impulse 2 - range 2 (3 if you're moving away)
Impulse 3 - hits.

There has to be some weakness or restriction to make it fun to play AGAINST.

Perhaps killed on the first point of damage?

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 05:55 am: Edit

1pt Kills would make the Lyrans Invunerable (practically) to these things. Anyway SVC said that the 3 space Type (H?) from J2 would NEVER be mounted on a ship. So a 4 spacer would probably not go to well.

As a crazy idea.

We COULD up the size of the Drones. But say they aren't actually bigger. Just the electronics are smaller. Maybe they take HALF the size normal drones do.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 04:34 pm: Edit

We either make missiles more powerful, or increase the numbers. You choose.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 05:54 pm: Edit

CMC: I disagree. I proposed a Kzinti drone idea a wile ago that did neither. (Re: The Heel Nipper Drone.) Another was the Drone Booster Pack.

Drones by nature of the era are going to be less effective but still usefull. There are other ways to get them working better. Take the Swordfish drone. It will probably carry a Phaser 6 now (Currently the X1 two space swordfish carries a Ph-1. Probably should stay the same.)

Multi-warhead drones currently carry type IX drones. A modification could be made here to allow the Type IX to do 4 points (instead of two) against ships. This would allow for the tactic of over whelming an enemies defences or face moderate damage. Call it the Type IX-B).

Here is one I have been mulling over. A Delayed Trigger Warhead. This module must be in the forward space and explodes for four points. It is responsible for triggering the other warheads if there are any. The drone does not hit during movement but rather hits just after the fire step. It flies past the target and expodes in near proximity for half damage on the OPPOSITE SHIELD. It can be programmed to hit normally on launch if the player so chooses. Module Cost to exchange for one explosive module = +1 BPV.

The idea here is that we can make drones do new things and not just bigger and faster. Some special drones can become general availability.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Oh ya, The Delayed Trigger Warhead module (DTW) is indistinguishable from a normal explosive module even when labbed. The only way to tell is if it doesn't explode when it enters your hex. You do get a chance to fire at it, though not with ADDs since they don't work at R0. But during the movement phase you have to ask your self, is it targeted on me or something else or what??? Conditions may well identify the drone but a good player will set you up to not be sure. Ballistic targeting of a regular drone may make you think he bought a DTW module when he didn't.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 06:01 pm: Edit

My old group played with some 2X drones, and it was only the warheads that were different. The drones themselves were just your usual 1X frames. One warhead we had, for example, was an EMP drone that would temporarily degrade the target's sensor rating. Another would cause plasma armed ships to have to discharge their plasma (based on a roll on a chart). Not saying these ideas would float, but perhaps making nifty new warheads is the way to go, rather than wholesale drone redesign.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Here is one for the GX rack. Allow it to launch one space of drones per turn or one two space drone per turn.
Huh??
Ya, this would allow the X2 G-Rack to launch two Type IX drones per turn.

Of course it would still have the ADD mode.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Klingons might could get a stasis warhead. It reaches R3 and stops. The target is stasised for 4 impulses or until the drone is destroyed. BPV would be like 10 to 20 and only fit on a type VIII drone.

Hey, just tossing out ideas. Even scarry ones. Could limit them to one or two per ship. Command ships only. That would make the total max about 6 in a large fleet.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, March 28, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

X1 drone frames should become standard across all generations by Y205 (Y205 refit?) to simplify supply. New warheads types would be OK but anyone could use them.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Now I had thought of these before the AT disruptor talk had been entered into but it reminded me to post these two simple ideas.


1) X2 drones are no longer required to be launched with the target in its FA arc. It move normally but may be launched in any heading on the impulse of launch.
In this way ships can more easily get themselves between the target and the drones and thus soak up fome of the phaser fire thayt would otherwise be used in drone defense.

2) Drones may sideslip but not turn away from their targets...I'm not sure if this'll play out correctly but it should allow the speed 32 drones to "sidestep" the speed 32 drones that have been launched to shoot them down.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Why not simply allow X2 drones the ability to set waypoints?

Even better:

Drones controlled by X2 ships can change targets while in flight and may move in any way the controlling X2 ship wishes.

In this way X2 ships can use the same drones everyone else uses (simplifies supply) but still have a cool new way to deploy them.