The only thing I found was in rule (S3.25); "Special shuttles (e.g., HTS, MRS, or GAS) may replace administrative shuttles for the cost shown on Annex #6. Fighters cannot be replaced, and speccials shuttles cannot be 'sold back' to gain points for other uses."

"Fighters cannot be replaced..."

The rule says nothing about replacing ADMIN with fighters. There may be one out there, but like you, Mike, I was not been able to find it.

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 11:59 am: Edit

R1.R3 is printed in my 1995 edition of Module R6 on page 6 of the rules. It covers casual ready racks on HDWs and certain other ships. You can replace the fighters with shuttles, do not pay for the fighter, pay for the shuttle, and the ready rack is present but unloaded. This does not apply to Hydran Hybrid ships. There is nothing that allows casual ready racks to be added to ships in general.

If there is no enabling rule for the thing you want to do, than you can't do the thing.

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 01:54 pm: Edit

Well we are playing by normal rules as far as fleets and ships are concerned. Other than we have a fleet limit of movement cost 5 for all fleets. Most of our in house rule variations deal with the universe, and interactions and how to get from place to place.

So only Gorn and Feds had these early fighters?

Chuck

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 02:01 pm: Edit

From Annex #6, Fighters and Shuttles, Substitutes for Shuttles;

"Replace 1 Admin with 1 fighter on ships where this is allowed (HDWs, Hydran Gendarmes, etc.) per fighter, (deducted from fighter BPV) -2."

There is no "allowed" for a Federation CA, or a Klingon D7, or a Kzinti BC, or a Romulan FireHawk, or a Gorn BC, or etc.

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Ok thanks...so in general...no you cannot use fighters on any ship that does not say it can come with fighters.

Thanks Steve

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, March 24, 2020 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Charles Carroll:

I suspect the confusion goes back to the original introduction of War Cruisers into the game system. Originally all war cruisers included fighter ready racks (but not fighters) so that you could replace two admin shuttles with fighters. This concept was eventually dropped. But even while it was extant, it did not allow other non-war cruisers to add fighters in place of shuttles. An aspect of it remains in that some Hydran ships that normally do not carry fighters are allowed to replace an admin shuttle with a (depending on year) Stinger-1F or Stinger-F fighter for "local defense." But it does not allow a Hydran Traveler (for example) to replace admin shuttles with Stinger-Fs. (It does allow a Pegasus PF tender to replace a shuttle with a Stinger-F). See (R9.R6), and note that it creates that "allowed" caveat for the involved Hydran ships, but is not universal. The Hydran Gendarme class police ships create the "allowed" within their own specific rules (as do Heavy War Destroyers). Again, in no case do these extend to other ships generally, but note that some WYN ships also create such an exception in their own ship descriptions (Great White Shark, Auxiliary Cruisers, etc.).

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Friday, March 27, 2020 - 12:19 pm: Edit

Ok I remember somewhere that you could load a plasma torpedo as a lesser version. Such as spend 1 1 3 and produce a F in a G launcher. Or say 2 2 4 in a R and produce a S. The R making an S of course being so you could hold it. And then using 1 more point of power upgrade it to an R. So is this something that can be done. Focusing right now on the lesser idea of a G being loaded as an F. And yes if loaded as an F it would have to be held for a point since you would not have stasis.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Friday, March 27, 2020 - 02:28 pm: Edit

(FP1.13)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, March 27, 2020 - 02:42 pm: Edit

Also You can load Your R torp as a Sabot G torp and hold it then later spend 2 btty to fire a sabot R.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, March 27, 2020 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Another thing for larger tubes; you can start arming the torpedo as a standard G, S, or R with two points of power on each of the first two turns of arming, then if the need arises (and you have sufficient reserve power), you can apply two points from your batteries and fire them as type-F plasma torpedoes (FP1.93).

By Randy Green (Hollywood750) on Friday, March 27, 2020 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Versatile little buggers.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Are there rules saying how many passengers / refugees (not counted as Crew Units) that a ship may carry???


Garth L. Getgen

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 05:06 pm: Edit

The only things I can think of at the moment, Sgt G, are what's said in certain ship descriptions.

The Tramp Steamer (R1.44) says in its ship description that it can carry a highly variable number of passengers, from one hundred to as many as six hundred.

This is a big assumption on my part, but it does sound to me like that latter, upper maximum number, would likely serve in situations where the Tramp Steamer is serving as an emegency evacuation ship, possibly when a dozen colonies of Man are evacuated on a quest to find the mythic "Lost Colony" known as Earth.

The small troop ship freighter carries no fewer than sixty boarding parties which, when combined with the extreme assumptions of the Tramp Steamer, suggest the possibility of two refugees in the place of a single Marine rack; large passenger liners repurposed for evacuations may carry as many as twelve hundred refugees

These are just guesses. Regardless of what sort of physical room there might be for the innocents just trying to survive a desperate bid to escape, all ships have limits on the capacity of their life support systems.

If you're doing this for fiction, I hope these numbers will help you out. If you're doing this for a scenario, might I suggest some "Scenario Specific Rules?" Things like an increased demand (i.e.: more energy required) for life support, additional "Crew/Passenger Unit Casualties" for hits on hull or barracks, and the like.

Hmm... Barracks... Rule G28...

Nah; that just talks about them as a special item on certain types of ships. Nothing about extra passengers in case of evacuation.


Oh, one other thing about overstuffed ships; how long are the refugees going to be aboard? If their destination is close (like the ships evacuating British troops from Dunkirk), they'll be able to haul more than, say, hauling interstellar distances.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Garth L. Getgen:

Off the top of my head, there is no formal rule that says a given ship can carry "X" crew units as passengers or refugees, or a time limit (as there is for shuttles) for how long it can do so before the overcrowding would affect the ship's life support.

This would be a very, very complex question. There is no simple answer.

A ship might have normal staffing, normal staffing plus (say that extra company of boarding parties you picked up with Commander's Option points), and normal staffing plus plus (you picked up some extra crew units in addition to the boarding parties).

But when does the ship become "crowded" and when does it become "overcrowded?" If "overcrowded," how far can it go before "life support" (which is more than just enough breathable air with the right humidity) begins to collapse (insufficient rations, toilets backing up, etc.).

There is no simple mathematical formula such as "Ship of Size Class U with V hull boxes can carry W additional crew units normally, X additional crew units in an emergency for a reduction in combat capability, Y additional crew units for Z time before it is destroyed by life support collapse.

And it is just too complex to provide a simple answer.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Okay, cool. Thanks for the quick reply.


Garth L. Getgen

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Saturday, April 04, 2020 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Garth,

Not sure if this list will help but here are all the ships that list passengers, medical staff and Patient Crews.

Empire Name Unit Type Rule	Passengers	Medical Staff	Patient Crew Units
General F-HL (R1.62)		24	60
General F-LL (R1.64)	40
General F-HS (R1.61)		10	30
General F-LS (R1.63)	20
General TSS (R1.44)	60
General VIPM (R1.32D)	8
General VIPM (YR1.2G)	5
General SAJ (R1.93)	30
General FTT (R1.65)	10
General FTT - ADD (R1.65)	10
General FTT - Drone (R1.65)	10
General LB (R1.87)	5
General ACOS (R1.68S)	10
General JAC (R1.A23)	10
General FTT - Phaser-2 (R1.65)	10
General FTT - Phaser-3 (R1.65)	10
Federation FEM (R2.A22)	20
Federation DNP (R2.J3)	10
Federation FCF (R2.102)	6
Federation FFP (R2.48)	10
Federation FCR (R2.84)	6
Federation P-FCF (R2.101)	6
Federation P-SL (R2.9)	30
Federation P-SL (P-1) (SL18.41)	30
Federation TUG + P-SL (R2.8 + R2.9)	30
Klingon F5R (R3.94)	6
Klingon E4R (R3.115)	6
Klingon P-HF12 (R3.160)	6
Klingon P-PT13 (R3.161)	10
Klingon G1N (R3.PF6)	1
Romulan P-HV (R4.126F)	6
Romulan K4F (R4.141)	6
Romulan SKR - Mod (R4.N2)	6
Romulan SKR (R4.137)	6
Romulan SKRA - Mod (R4.N2)	6
Romulan SKRA (R4.137A)	6
Romulan SEF (R4.A31)	6
Romulan P-PT (R4.126I)	10
Romulan BHF (R4.88)	6
Kzinti FCR (R5.68)	6
Kzinti P-F11 (R5.111)	4
Kzinti P-PF12 (R5.112)	8
Gorn FCR (R6.57)	6
Gorn P-HF (R6.98)	8
Gorn P-TP (R6.99)	8
Gorn P-SL (R6.9)	20
Gorn TUG + P-SL (R6.5 + R6.35)	20
Gorn BFR (R6.A8)	6
Gorn P-YSL (YR6.18)	20
Gorn P-SL (P-1) (SL18.41)	20
Tholian FCR (R7.42)	6
Tholian P-SL (R7.55F)	30
Tholian P-FCF (R7.55H)	6
Tholian P-T (R7.55J)	32
Orion FCR (R8.33)	6
Hydran FCX (R9.A7)	8
Hydran FCR (R9.69)	6
Hydran P-CR (R9.120)	8
Hydran P-PT (R9.121)	8
Andromedan MGP (R10.51)	5
Andromedan MGP (P) (RC10.PF)	5
Lyran FCR (R11.58)	6
Lyran Pal-PTT (R11.102)	10
Lyran P-T3 (R11.37C)	20
Lyran P-FR13 (R11.99)	6
Lyran P-PT14 (R11.100)	10
WYN FCR (R12.36)	6
ISC FCR (R13.49)	6
ISC P-HFR (R13.90)	6
ISC P-LHF (R13.93)	6
ISC P-PTT (R13.91)	10
ISC P-LPT (R13.94)	10
ISC F-TL (TP41) (R1.19-R13)	120
LDR FCR (R14.32)	6
Seltorian FCR (R15.24)	6
Seltorian CAP (R15.-)	30
Vudar FCR (R17.48)	6
Paravian FCR (R18.48)	6
Paravian P-PT (R18.64)	8
Paravian P-HT (R18.65)	4
Carnivon FCR (R19.51)	6
Carnivon P-PT (R19.66)	8
Carnivon P-HT (R19.67)	4
Frax P-HF12 (R51.160)	6
Frax P-PT13 (R51.161)	10
Bolosco P-TS (OR20.PS7)	12
Zosman FC (OR23.A5)	48
Borak FFR (RB100.52)	6
Borak INT (RB100.PF0)	1
Peladine FCR (JR1.51)	6

The General SAJ (R1.93) has 30 passengers and 6 guard units.

Ken

By William L Phillips (Praetor) on Sunday, April 05, 2020 - 02:02 am: Edit

In scenario SL305 Zombie Apocalypse from CL #44, can the zombie ship disengage by acceleration ?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 06, 2020 - 02:32 pm: Edit

William L Phillips:

Under (SL305.41) the only means of disengagement for any unit, whether zombie or non-zombie, is by distance.

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Tuesday, April 07, 2020 - 04:09 am: Edit

On the fighter master chart in G3, The hydran St-2G list 2 Ph-G as its phasers and the St-2GM list 1 Ph-G and 1 Ph-3 as its phasers.
Should the St-2GM phasers be 2 Ph-G and 1 Ph-3 instead since the megapack adds 1 Ph-3 to existing phasers when not carrying heavy weapons or drones?

Also, can mega fighters carry pods like its normal version?

Marcel

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Tuesday, April 07, 2020 - 08:36 am: Edit

Another question regarding Hydran fighters.

If a ready rack for a St-2 can contain 8 fusion charges, does it means that a ready rack for a St-2B can contain 12 fusion charges (twice the number of charges of the fighter like the St-2).

Does it applies also to the St-HB for its 2 HB charges?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, April 07, 2020 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Marcel Trahan asked on Tuesday, April 07, 2020: On the fighter master chart in G3, The hydran St-2G list 2 Ph-G as its phasers and the St-2GM list 1 Ph-G and 1 Ph-3 as its phasers.
Should the St-2GM phasers be 2 Ph-G and 1 Ph-3 instead since the megapack adds 1 Ph-3 to existing phasers when not carrying heavy weapons or drones?
ANSWER: Your supposition is correct, the Stinger-2GM should have listed 2xphaser-G and 1xphaser-3.

Marcel Trahan asked on Tuesday, April 07, 2020: Also, can mega fighters carry pods like its normal version?
ANSWER: Yes, under rule (J16.247) "Megafighter systems do not increase the number of pod rails given in (J11.111)." The pod rails are present and not removed by the presence of a megapack. Note that megapacks on EW fighters add two additional pod rails (J16.245) If the megafighter is an EWF, the megafighter system adds two additional rails that can be used to carry EW or other pods, including phaser pods, but not drones, plasma-Ds, plasma-Ks, or any other weapon. Anything carried on these two rails does not slow the EWF megafighter under (J11.111).

Marcel Trahan asked on Tuesday, April 07, 2020:If a ready rack for a St-2 can contain 8 fusion charges, does it means that a ready rack for a St-2B can contain 12 fusion charges (twice the number of charges of the fighter like the St-2).
ANSWER: A question not addressed in the fighter description, possibly because historically the fighter was not deployed beyond the prototype stage. Technically under (J16.111) the answer is yes, but it raises the question that if it were possible to have three loads for a standard Stinger-I, why was this not always the case (easier to rearm surviving fighters in the middle of a battle when you do not have to divert power to the ready racks)? While Module G3 included a Stinger-2BM, it is hypothetical as the description says no megapack was developed for this fighter. Given the year in service, and the existence of Stinger-2Ms in Y179, I would say that you could have the 12 fusion charges.

Marcel Trahan asked on Tuesday, April 07, 2020: Does it applies also to the St-HB for its 2 HB charges?
ANSWER: I would follow the same logic trail as for the Stinger-2B, so yes, but again note that this fighter was pretty much only a prototype, and while there is a hypothetical megapack, historically there was no megapack developed. You are simply using the extra charge space developed for a magapack Stinger-H to have a second charge for this fighter.

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 - 02:28 pm: Edit

I know that you cannot make speed changes that cause more speed to occur than you have power applied.

But...with tractor tricks...where two ships trade off tractoring each other at perfect times, they can maintain a never ending movement speed where every impulse they move. As they tractor each other for two impulses...1st imp ship one moves....second ship 2. So they skip an impulse where at the speed they were going neither move.

But...how many times can a ship gain movement because of this impossible combination that causes a ship to go much faster than its power spent can generate? Is it limited to gaining one point of movement a turn as is possible with speed changes? Or if you do this timed perfectly using multiple ships...the ships can spend about 20 points of movement and all go 30? Or at least go much faster than 20 hexes...as they gain a number of hexes of movement...with tractor 2 imp...drop tractor. Later other ship tractors...gains a movement point. Then drop tractor....3rd ship tractors...gain a movement point. So forth so on.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Charles H. Carroll:

(G7.332) If a tractor link is voluntarily released, it cannot be re-established by the releasing ship between those two units within 1/4-turn (this applies to all of the tractors on the releasing ship, not just to the tractor that released the tractored unit). The released ship could tractor the releasing ship. Not maintaining a tractor link during an Energy Allocation Phase by not powering it counts as voluntary release, although the specific tractor would be available to tractor some other unit during the turn (or even the original unit) after eight impulses. Releasing a tractor under (D22.13) is also considered a voluntary release even though it may be out of the player’s hands.

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Personally think, if you are spending that much time working out a way to get a hex or two of extra movement a turn...
You are going to miss something important going on in the battle.....

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Wednesday, April 08, 2020 - 03:01 pm: Edit

I under stand that Steve....here is the issue

Plasma coming after a ship. It is at range 1...and can never hit a speed 20 ship. As the ship and its friends...hands off tractor tricks over and over...keeping the speed 20 ship moving every single impulse. In fleets this becomes a never ending issue. Where they are all going the two moves rules. Where one ship moves forward..the other ship delays...second ship moves forward dragging 1st...and then drop tractor...move a couple impulses as would happen...second ship tractors..move forward...1st ship then drags second ship forward...now 6 impulses have passed...and you have 2 moves after dropping tractor...and gee...1/4 turn gone...now restart...or add a third ship...with larger fleets...and a speed 20 ship out runs a speed 32 torp at range 1 for half a turn...and the torp harmlessly dissipates...as the ship pays 20 power...and gets 22...23...24...actual movement...or more.