The WYNs have probably got a number of Klingon hulls (and, possibly, booms) left from incursion attempts. While they'd probably just stick a boom on the ship and turn it into a regular-size warship (or sell it to the Kzintis), it might be fun to see one of these hulls flown by the WYNs as an independent warship. Call it "Nearly Headless Nicole". You might do the same thing with a separated boom--although you'd have to add a warp engine.

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 11:00 am: Edit

Or, perhaps something similar, but different... like an E4 hull and an F5 boom or a Seahawk/Skyhawk-F5 mix? Since the Romulan ships used Klingon tech and warp bubbles, they might be compatible, right?

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Actually, the Klinks would NOT detach the rear hull from the boom. They can't disengage home sublight.

Remember that the WYN is composed of mutineers/ rebels and such. So the idea that you'd just detach the boom and blow up the aft hull would NOT be popular there...

What they would probably do is surrender and get interned. And then ransomed with the ship sooner or later.

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Actually, couldn't they make it home in the boom using NTW? I know when I wrote "The Return of the Hood" in CL 25, the assumption was such a seperated saucer could make it home eventually under its own power.

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Mr. Grafton,

I could see a Klingon dropping the aft end of a ship that has been pounded, sort of as a sacrificial lamb, in order to get away. Lots of valuable salvage on that rear hull for the WYN to repair and exploit... and while they are grabbing the goods, you could sneak away. Also, the Klingons might drop a boom in a similar manner and escape on the rear half using the AuxCon to operate the ship.

You might eventually wind up with a mis-matched boom and main hull and the WYN would definately be the ones to try and 'make do' by joining them, or even trying to use them as an independant ship.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Escape in the Rear Hull? Isn't that were all the Subject Races and people out of favor with the Empire are kept, whereas the "Good" crewmen are kept in the boom? I'd think if a boom was seperated there'd be better chances for the rear hull's malcontents to decide to seek shelter in the cluster, and freedom, than return to the empire.

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Yeah, you're right... but even subject races might like to get into the Empire's good graces, and some out-of-favor Klingons might see 'saving most of the ship' as a way to get back into some good graces. Of course, if they did run to the Cluster instead, the WYN would still get the half a ship and need to do something with it.

My point wasn't so much that it would happen exactly that way as it was that there was indeed a possibility that the WYN might wind up with parts and pieces.

For instance, take the aft hull of an F5 (however it got there):
Security + AUX = 2 box Bridge
Turn the APR into AUX
Replace ADD with Drone A
Replace Probe with Drone A
Replace Drone with another Shuttle
Tack on a 'bubble' up front with 2xPhaser 2.

You wind up with a rather respectable little frigate. It'll look a bit weird, but it should work within the cluster.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 12:25 am: Edit

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Quote:

(however it got there)

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By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 12:39 am: Edit

Under P7.8 and P7.95, it is stated that freighters, sub-light ships and crippled warships can enter/leave the zone under 'robot controls.' This would involve the crews being disembarked, but the promise of a few stout hands and a 'new to them' ship could probably make the WYN crew interested in taking them aboard for the hop into the cluster.

Were a WYN ship to have a crippled boom/saucer/hull/ect present itself in a position for them to retrieve it, I'm sure they would, if the field was clear, take the few minutes to set the ship up to work under robot controls (one turn and one working control box + 1 shield box per side)- if not to necessarily capture the remaining parts of the ship, to at least have time to repair and salvage it's worthwhile systems in peace.


I concede that its not a likely situation for most empires, but the WYN have some unlikely ships gotten through unlikely circumstances. I just see this as one more interesting way to get an interesting ship.

Of course, seeing who disagrees, I'll happily say 'outside the realms of probability, if not necessarily possibility.'

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 02:01 am: Edit

Any Klingon push into the Cluster would be done by a squadron so the crew can escape on a different ship.

The Klingon ship could use both impending destruction and boom separation. That would remove all the crew from the soon to be destroyed ship. The crew on the boom would be transported off the boom by the rest of the Klingon squadron on the following turn after which the boom can easily destroyed before the Klingons leave. Having the rear hull survive because of overestimating the inbound seeking weapons does happen.

I like the idea of having a Klingon aft hull turned into a impulse only weapons platform assigned to help out bases. I envision a whole series of tractor trickery by bases and WYN ships to move and rotate the weapons platform into a viable firing position. If it turns into another warp capable ship where the boom replacement is better than the original boom, that would bore me.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 05:10 am: Edit

I actually find the idea of the Klingon Rear Hull "Weapon Platform" more interesting than another OK6/TK5 type scenario. At the very least, it could offer some new tactical implications and possibly a scenario or two. Whereas the new Boom/Aft Hull does seem kinda boring in comparison.

By Sean O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 07:35 am: Edit

Mike West is (I think) trying to make the point that a sublight boom (or presumably, any NTW unit) cannot move fast enough to travel through the WYN radiation zone before the radiation destroys it. Tactical warp units, going full speed, are able to travel through the Zone but still suffer damage and crew deaths.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 12:46 pm: Edit

Mike West is apparently the only one that got my point.

If you are a klink you seperate the boom from the aft hull to escape with the officers (and such) and half of the ship to live to fight another day.

If you are inside the cluster you are NOT getting away. The Rad shell would kill everyone as you try to pass through.

So you surrender/ get interned and a ransom is paid. And anyone that wants to defects while they have the chance.

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 12:53 pm: Edit

I was noting that if the ship is engaged outside the Cluster by WYN forces (a patrolling purchased Orion ship, maybe) and a boom escapes, the WYN ship could remove the crew and set the hull on a robot course into the cluster. They'd likely do this anyway, just to get everything salvageable repaired and offloaded in peace. once in the cluster, they decide to modify the rear hull a bit and turn it into an independant unit.

Is it a situation that would come about often... probably not.
Is it a situation that possibly could come about... sure.

By Sean O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 08:02 pm: Edit

Even if they get hold of a rear hull, the rear hull is still sublight. It can't travel at tactical warp speeds due to dynamic balance issues (AFAIK). Send it into the radiation zone as a robot and the radiation zone fries the computers before it gets all the way through. The robot freighters used by the WYNs to conduct trade are AFAIK tactical warp freighters, not sublight freighters.

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 08:37 pm: Edit

P7.8 specifically states that "freighters, sublight ships and crippled warships" can enter under robot control rules. Tactical warp is not a necessity.

I've admitted that it was an unlikely situation, but it is something that could happen.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, November 24, 2008 - 09:07 pm: Edit

The rear hull would not stay sublight.

the WYNs would do something about that.

if they didn't have a boom to attach, they'd weld an E3 or something onto it. whatever was handy.

But you gave the WYNs a klingon aft hull to play with, they're going to make a monster out of it, probably a true "pocket battleship", unless they want it for the War of Return.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 01:47 pm: Edit

If the aft hull can move, AND P7.8 applies, I guess that UNMANNED ships on remote could traverse the shell.

BUT, you still have to evacuate the crew, or they would be commiting suicide,

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 02:19 pm: Edit

I noted that in my suggestion.
The WYN would take the willing defectors with them. The rest, they could either allow to escape in shuttles and escape pods, or simply 'dump' them... which is likely what the Klingons would do to any WYN survivors, so they'd probably not loose a lot of sleep.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Actually KILLING those asking to NOT be taken to WYN space would be STUPID.

It would tend to make future loyal officers less likely to surrender the ship. And if you KNOW you are going to be killed, why not take some traitors with you?

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 12:01 am: Edit

Mr Grafton,

I did say 'release them' also, and that would be preferred if there was any chance they might survive. However, there is a good chance that in the vastness of space in nothing but a couple of admin shuttles, no rescue would arrive in time. The most that a D6 could get off in shuttles would be 4 crew units.

Remember that:
1.) We're dealing with renegades, rebels and rouges here. Most are affiliated with murderers and criminals (pirates) and some actually are. Though taken as a whole, the WYN might be a quasi-political organization which has evolved to control a pinhead of galactic territory their origin remains unchanged. The first people into the WYN were people regarded by their own as criminals and many continue down that path to a greater or lesser degree.
2.) Pirates in the Caribbean in the late 1600's were not opposed to judicious use of violence and even execution if necessary. Yet successful captains (democratically elected) retained loyal crews, even in the face of certain death. Many famous pirates of that time (Blackbeard, Stede Bonnet, and many of their fellows) were Jacobites finding themselves in a situation very much similar to the WYN- alienated from their homeland and considered traitors and political criminals. In fact, these were the most likely to pursue violence when it suited their end, viewing it as 'war against the Usurpers.'

As far as 'taking the traitors with you'... that is also entirely possible, but remember that there would also be a slight 'debate' going on among the crew aboard the Klingon rear hull at that time as to what being a 'traitor' actually entailed. I'm sure a big fight or even small battle might take place. How the fight for the ship ends up is likely to determine if the WYN get the rear hull at all.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 03:01 pm: Edit

I know. And was agreeing with you.

BUT, I don't think the Klinks would kill Wyn naval personnel unless they were Ex-Klingon service types.

PD Klingons discusses this.

By Jamie Carney (Carthaginian) on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 03:17 pm: Edit

I, unfortunately, don't have any of the PD 'racial' books. I have the basic rules for GURPS, but unfortunately, there isn't a large RPing crowd around to justify investing in them. All I have to go on is the old and universal 'Klingons don't take prisoners' line, and the TOS material that supports the Klingon disdain for people who consider themselves 'independant.'

I could see a Klingon captain getting creative after a WYN ship scratched his fresh paint, and not only killing any Klingon defectors, but tacking 'intergalactic terrorism' and 'aiding and abetting traitors to the Empire' charge on the rest of the WYN in order to get rid of them easily.

If it's against canon, I guess it's against canon, but it doesn't seem entirely out of character for a more aggressive Klingon warrior.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 03:31 pm: Edit

Jamie, the Klinks trade fairly heavily with the WYN.

And YES, the Klingons are fairly likely to summary court martial ex klingons captured.

BUT, if you CAPTURE WYN personnel you can TRADE them or interrogate them or kill them at your leisure later. But killing them NOW removes those options.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 03:36 pm: Edit

So in summary:

1) if the klinks are INSIDE the shell they would evacuate the personnel they want to other ships and flee. They might try to send a boom on NTW through the shell on automatic. And if they don't have the option to get out, they probably would surrender and get ransomed. BUT, it would be a MAJOR morale issue to just kill off the ones that can't fit into the boom. So they might just abandon the aft hull.

2) Outside the shell, yes they might seperate the boom. And if the rear hull was intact enough to do so it might be evacuated by the WYN and sent through the shell on automatic.

NOTE: the rear hull will be fairly damaged (per the DAC) unless there was a mutiny. So it may well be just too damaged to be worth the effort.