I see. I only recently bought F2 (as in, a few months ago).

I haven't picked up CL32 yet, but I plan to in the near future.

If I have CL32, will I be missing anything, or are the CC and SR in CL32 identical to the ones in newer editions of F2?

Also, since you're here SPP, can you confirm no BS for the Vudar?

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, September 25, 2020 - 05:56 am: Edit

I just got my Captain's Log 54 and I have a question about the NDX and NFX, the Advanced Technology Neo-Tholian Destroyer and Frigate. Are these ships supposed to be "real" or "conjectural"? There is a statement somewhere in the description of the 312th, that there were (or may have been) additional light ships with the 312th but they were scrapped to get the cruisers and dreadnoughts operational. I recall partcipating in a discussion a number of months ago, that "scrapped" wouldn't necessarily mean the hulls themselves were destroyed. It could be taken to mean that the components of the NDDs and NFFs were removed (leaving them basically empty shells) to repair the NDNs, NCAs, and NCLs. If that were the case, those NDD and NFF hulls might eventually be put back into service, once the Holdfast procuded new engines, weapons, etc. for those hulls. Is that where the NDX and NFX came from?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, September 25, 2020 - 11:35 am: Edit

Perhaps an alternate place for the NDX and NFX could be among the Tholians of Draco?

On the one hand, it's noted that the Draco-Tholian survey ship Sojourner was escorted by two other Draco-Tholian ships when it arrived in the Holdfast in Y195; perhaps one or more of these three ships could have advanced technology installed by the Holdfast Tholians during their "sojourn" (ahem) in the Alpha Octant.

On the other hand, there is the question of which ships remained in Draco in the Sojourner's absence, which could perhaps be upgraded to advanced technology once the Holdfast Tholians send a task force of their own out to Draco in Y207.

So, if there are any NDDs or NFFs in either category (or in both), perhaps that might leave the door ajar for one or more historical NDXs and/or NFXs.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, September 25, 2020 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

I thought the ship description clearly answered the question? Was that edited out? (I do not have a final copy of CL#54 as of yet, what it being printed is being shipped and the final copies were on SVC's computer which could have seen editing beyond what was written.)

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, September 25, 2020 - 02:15 pm: Edit

SPP,

Well, when I read the ship description, it sounds like a real ship... except... where did the Tholians get the hulls? The description doesn't explain where the hulls came from, prompting the speculation in the latter part of my post above.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, September 25, 2020 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

I cannot give away both Module R4T and The Tholian Master Starship Book, so suffice to say you will have to "learn to live with disappointment" (okay, I borrowed that line from "A Princess Bride" and could not resist). If you purchase either of those products, your questions will be answered, but in the meantime I will simply have to enjoy your suffering (and may Miracle Max will say that you are merely "mostly dead").

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 12:11 pm: Edit

Okay, another question:

When did the SkyHawk-L become subjct to shock?

One of the Proposals discussed in Captain's Log #54 is titled "A Leader Without Shock" (on page 81). The discussion clearly indicates that the Plasma-G causes shock. That didn't sound right so I checked my Module R4. Nothing whatsoever about the SKL being subject to shock. I checked my Module G3 (the Master Annex File). No shock...

I can only assume that sometime after I purchased those products, ADB made the decision that the SKL had shock issues. But where was the information published? Obviously some people got the word, but I didn't. And it's a little disconcerting that I may have some unknown number of "incorrect" SSDs and not even know they are incorrect...

Woul it be possible for ADB to publish a list of SSDs that have been changed since they were originally posted? And would it be economically feasible to sell a packet of the "corrected" SSDs via Print On Demand?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

While I sit next to the proverbial seat of power, I do not have immediate access to the information. In short, we are printing and shipping so I do not as of yet have either a copy of Captain's Log #54 and its Supplement. So you question is not something I am currently in a position to research. I can tell you that the SkyHawk-L as published in Module R4 and in the Romulan Master Starship Book and the data in Module G3 all show it as not having shock. So until I can peruse a copy what was printed I have no answer for you.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Good questions, Alan. I only received my copy of Captain's Log #54 yesterday, but it does look pretty clear that the Tholians have two X-tech Neo-Destroyers and four X-tech Neo-Frigates...

... In Canon history.

If playing a purely historical campaign, they have the hulls in question. In non-historical campaigns, well, you have... Options...

By Randy Green (Hollywood750) on Sunday, September 27, 2020 - 12:45 pm: Edit

Obviously the Tholians kept these hulls at the sphere itself (and a nasty shock they would be) as the ultimate reserve force if the Klingons (and Selts) ever managed to break the Holdfast defensive perimeter and menaced Tholia directly.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - 03:28 pm: Edit

OK, I don't know where the best spot for this is, but this seemed like the most relevant place. One is an actual line item, and the others are more observational "why" type questions ...

I have been reviewing gunboats recently, and actually dug out all of the published gunboats I could find that are related to our sectors of space, including simulator.

First, what I am pretty sure is an actual line item report that is not in the site's errata section:
- Peladine phaser PF (SSD): The phaser gunboat is supposed to be included in the "variants" gunboat page in the SSD book. However, instead of showing the phaser variant, it shows a standard Peladine PF. So, the SSD is in error.
- Related question. I assume that the Pl-Fs are supposed to be replaced by Ph-2s. All good, and easy enough to figure out. But, what are the arcs supposed to be? I assume FA+L and FA+R, but want to make sure.

I also have two "why" questions:
- Why are the Paravian gunboats so awful?

By all rights, they should have two Ph-3 "tail feather" mounts. As it is now, they are under-gunned and under-sized. The smallest gunboats have 12 boxes (not including warp engines), and those gunboats are the WYN and the Paravians. The WYN are fine, as they are supposed to be cheap and "quick-n-dirty" builds. And, despite the number of boxes, they do have a decent (not great) weapons load. But the Paravians have too few weapons and it's very noticeable. And those two Ph-3s are the minimum add. I can argue pretty easily that, being so power hungry, they should probably have two APR (instead of one) and potentially a third QWT (not sold on this one; would have to play that one out). But, against their "historical" foes, they are out-gunned.

I understand that someone has to be "best" and someone has to be "worst". That is not the issue. The issue is that while weak, the WYN works. I am not sure how well the Paravians work.

- Why does the Peladine leader have three APR and Battery?

Base gunboats, with only two exceptions, have either one or two APR and one or two Battery. However, except for the Peladine, every single leader is capped at two APR and two Battery. So, if the base gunboat hull has two APR and two Battery (e.g. Lyran and Tholian) then the leader gets no extra APR or Battery. The sole exception to this is the Peladine. This just seems weird, especially since they are fundamentally Lyran creations. I would have expected them to follow that "rule" of the leader.

In both cases, I understand that these are conjectural (Paravian) or simulator (Peladine). But, still, I'd expect the norms to be followed. I am just curious as to why they weren't.

(On the other hand, I do want to point out that I really like the unique disadvantage given to the Carnivons with their SSDE tracks. That was a cool little touch that really fits in with their given character.)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - 05:08 pm: Edit

OK Paravian Gunboats. They have 2QWTs. Same range and power as a ships. 2ph1 as well. waek? a Flotilla of paravian gunboats has 10QWTs and 20ph1. More QWTs then a pair of heavy cruisers. You should never let Your Gunboats get closer then range 15 and with gunboat speed will have no trouble at all. traditional foes.. (but remember they would be alternate history type foes.) have plasma F die at 15 moves. Are weak after 13 moves A QWT does 1-3-1 up to 21 moves. Loads and fire every turn as well. A plas-F every 3 turns it fires.

I will take a flight of Paravian gunboats any day..

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - 07:21 pm: Edit

Ok. Fair point. I forget that a QWT is effectively a 1/3 Pl-S that fires every turn.

My question should probably have been why they get two instead of one with more phasers.

By Norman Dizon (Ichaborn) on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - 07:59 pm: Edit

In a large, lidded saucepan, toast the cumin and coriander seeds over a medium to high heat, swirling the pan around until the spices are a pale golden brown. It should take 2 to 3 minutes. Then lightly grind them in a mortar and pestle.

Pour the oil into the pan on a medium heat and, when it's hot, put the spices back into the pan. Stir-fry for a minute, then add the onions. Cook for 6 to 8 minutes, until they're starting to turn golden, then add the garlic and ginger. Cook for another couple of minutes before adding the chopped tomatoes.

Let the tomatoes cook and reduce for around 15 minutes, stirring occasionally, until they have thickened into a rich, bright sauce. Then add the tomato paste, salt, sugar, chili powder, and turmeric, mix well, and leave for a minute. Add the spinach, handful by handful, mix again, and leave the spinach to wilt in the sauce.

To bake the Paravian eggs, have them all ready to crack and put into the pan in quick succession. Make your first Paravian egg-sized well in the tomato sauce using the back of a wooden spoon and crack a Paravian egg into it. Then repeat as quickly as you can for the other Paravian eggs and put the lid on the pan. Turn the heat down really low and cook for 10 minutes, or until the whites of the Paravian eggs are set but the yolks still creamy.

Serve immediately with a sprinkling of pepper, the cilantro, a dollop of yogurt, and some hunks of bread.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 - 08:27 pm: Edit

I'll have a half dozen.

By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 12:07 am: Edit

Paravian shakshuka?

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 01:09 am: Edit

One more gunboat question ...

Most gunboats have a code name (like Klingon G1 or Federation Thunderbolt). However, some do not. The really odd cases are where empires are published together and one gets a code name (e.g. Paravian Hummingbird) and another in the same book does not (e.g. Carnivon PF). What was the rationale for not naming some of them? Just run out of themed names? Not feeling it that day? Didn't seem thematic for the empire? Just curious.

Or did I just miss them somewhere? As far as I can tell, the following empires do not have code names for their gunboats:
- Borak
- Carnivon
- Frax (but the Qari and Triaxians do)
- ISC
- Seltorian
- Vudar

Do note I could have just missed them. Given my missing the forest for the trees with the Paravian QWT, I could theoretically have looked directly at it and just missed it.

Thanks!

By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 12:22 pm: Edit

I propose that the code name for the Carnivon PF is the Chihuahua, but perhaps that's "an obvious variant"

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 12:23 pm: Edit

Good question, Mike!

To add a stick of dynamite to the fire (), why is it that the Kzinti, who use descriptors for naming their fighters ("Highly Advanced Attack Shuttle," "Disruptor Armed Shuttle," etcetera) and size class or descriptors for their ships ("Battlecruiser," "Heavy Carrier," and so on) have specific names ONLY for their Gunboats (Needles and Spikes)?

If I might hazard a guess, the original source material, the Air Force Tapes, may be the sources of all the code names; ones applied by Star Fleet Intelligence, and they felt it wiser in some cases to just use a clearly understood class for one race (the Kzinti BC, for example is well understood and won't be confused with anything else) while another race might have differing ships of differing capabilities that could easily become muddled, so they use specific code names for them (think about the capabilities of a Lyran Hellcat versus their Wildcats, or the improved capabilities of a D-7 over a D-6).

I suspect that the Gunboats might just be a furthering of that same idea. There's also the possibility of mixed empire fleets (i.e.: Klingons and Lyrans flying together) that makes specific names for them that much more critical, but some folks just don't fly as part of mixed race fleets; I mean, how often did the ISC integrate ships from the various races they were trying to keep separated into their echelons? How friendly were the Borak or Carnivons with their neighbors? How happy would enough other people be in joining the Seltorians on their Genocide quest?

Again, this is a guess on my part, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

(...And in answer to MY question, there may be situations where Gorn are flying with Kzinti, OR intelligence tapes might want to make sure it's clear whose gunboats are in a specific place during a specific furrball... erm, maybe I should use the term "Close Battle" instead?)

By Kosta Michalopoulos (Kosmic) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 12:34 pm: Edit

I've always thought that the ISC wouldn't mind having a few Hydran hellbore-armed ships integrated into their echelons. The PPD-hellbore combo would be a nightmare for their opponents.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Jeff,

The Carnivon are an opposing example to the Kzinti. They have names for all of their fighters, but not the gunboats.

The ISC are at least consistent. They have no names for any of the units, including the fighters. They are just Heavy Cruiser and Superiority Fighter. So, having their gunboats just be Fast Patrol Ships fits for them.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Friday, October 09, 2020 - 02:57 pm: Edit

What the heck is the BPV of the Kzinti CCX?

X1 says 243, C3 says 228, and G3 says 250.

By Chuck Strong (Raider) on Friday, October 09, 2020 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Is the Neo-Tholian NCV command rating correct at CR8?

If the rear NCV hull is rated at CR8 in MSC and then the SCS Command Module is added (which adds +CR1) should the mated NCV rating be CR9?

R761A States: Neo-Tholian heavy cruiser (R7.63) or Neo-Tholian light cruiser (R7.64) increase the command rating of the ship by one.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, October 09, 2020 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Shawn Gordon:

The ship was adjusted to 250.

Colonel Strong.

Doubtless an unreported error that was not caught when the ship was proposed. Should indeed be nine with a flag command module.

By Shawn Gordon (Avrolancaster) on Sunday, October 11, 2020 - 04:12 pm: Edit

So, this might be completely valid, but it seems weird.

I think the Feds get the GPFCX (Advanced Technology Planetary Control Base) before they get the GFC (Planetary Control Base).

The GFC has a YIS date of N-SCS. The Feds get their SCS in 186 (and a conjectural SCSA in 182). This would mean that the GFC comes into service in Y186, or maybe Y182?

But the GPCFX has a YIS date of XSID. The Feds get their CX in Y181, meaning XSID is 181.

Am I making a mistake, or is this the intention?

It seems weird to me.