Yeah, the WAX is generally pretty hard for the Gorn; I have played this game a million times (usually against Moose, who hasn't been paying for a while, as I think his job keeps him on the road most of the time, but also again Droid and Rigley numerous time, as well as others), and lose more often than not, but usually against either the all phaser version (g1111) or the HgbD; the higher power versions (i.e. with 2HB or a HB and photon and then wing disruptors instead of drones or P1s or something) tend to be not as good.

The times I have beaten Moose in this game were generally the result of being lucky, or crafty (I won the finals of Council of 5 one year by launching a couple pseudo on T1, he came in, shot me in the face at R5 or so, turned off to avoid the potential plasma, and then I alpha bolted on his #3, hit with S, S, F and 6xP1, did like 30 internals, HET did another 5 or 6 with rear phasers, and that was the game by, like, impulse 26. That doesn't happen much, however). But when the game goes long, the drones and gatling and hellebore tend to win out in the end.

When a ship is always moving speed 31 and still has 5+ power allocated to tractors, and has 4-5 drones on the map all the time, the Gorn has a hard time.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 11:26 am: Edit

I was surprised by how difficult it was, not having a lot of experience flying against the WAX. I came into the game having read Ken Lin's description of his game in an RAT against the Kzinti, and thinking that it was a blueprint for the WAx (drones are drones). This was not true, and as mentioned above, I didn't stick to the script and force the issue anyway.

I also wasn't good at using resources; I wasted some reinforcement on my weak #6 waiting for Hellbore shots that never came, and never fired a pseudo.

Also, I need to go read the rules on drones. I spent the whole game not knowing what kind of drones the WAX was allowed to have.

I made a mistake above referring to the torpedo Droid crashed on i28 as an enveloper, it was, of course, the D20. It was late.

Rules G7.36C-2 and 3 are very interesting, especially, as here, at end of turn when a lot of fairly slow pseudo-speeds are nonetheless moving a lot on the impulse chart. Everything moves on 32, anything down to speed 11 moves twice in the last three impulses. So if you are pointed the same direction...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Yeah, it helps a lot knowing what ships are armed with, certainly--in the tournament, all drones are Type I (4 damage, 12 warhead) or Type IV (6 damage, 24 warhead), but the type IVs are very restricted (everyone can have 2 of them, except the Kzinti can have 3 of them, max). Drones are always by default speed 20, the Klingon and the Kzinti can have a limited number of speed 32. The Klingon also has some type VI drones (3 damage, 2-8 warhead, depending on the target) in the ADD, which are of limited utility, but they have a special deception rule so you can't tell which drone is which when they launch them.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Well, you seem to have finished four weeks playing in two weeks.

So I am going to start the clock on the third round on Friday, and look to finish the tournament by 30 October.

Any complains?

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 01:28 pm: Edit

if you read the rules on drones, make sure they are the tourney rules.... very streamlined.
I would have also told you if I had realized....

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 02:02 pm: Edit

SPP,

It is possible that the tree is not correct; Ron and Majead each have reported that their "wins" in R2 were the result of an error in the reporting system, not that they have won games already.

I *think* only 2 of the R2 games are actually completed at this point.

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 02:15 pm: Edit

I have not played my 2nd round yet! Its a mistake!

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Andy:

I was too embarrassed that I didn't know to ask . No worries, it did not end up making any difference. If you get hit by ALL the drones, it doesn't matter nearly as much what kind they are. It's like that joke from the James Garner movie, where he points out that the sheriff's badge has a dent from a bullet and it must have saved someone's life, and the town elders respond:

"Would have, too, if it weren't for all them other bullets!"

-G

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Graham,

If you have questions on tactics or tournament specific rules or whatever, wander over to the Tournament Tactics forum (Tournament Zone>Tactics Discussion), and I'm sure we'd all love to chime in :-)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, September 30, 2020 - 05:45 pm: Edit

In that case, disregard.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Thursday, October 01, 2020 - 08:44 pm: Edit

The Round 2 game between Seth and I has not played. So that was a mistake.

That leaves 1 game that has been played on Round 2.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, October 02, 2020 - 12:12 pm: Edit

It is okay, as the second round time starts today (actually, midnight last night) time table.

Thanks for the participation everyone. Good luck in the coming round.

By Ronald J. Brimeyer (Captainron) on Sunday, October 04, 2020 - 04:03 pm: Edit

I made too many mistakes and Dan out played me. Not going to report so I do not screw up tree again.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Despite Sir Cat Who Eats Photons having briefly become Sir Cat Who Eats Plasma (sorry Ted, I could not resist) the Feds have done pretty well. Four entered the tourney, and one is in the third round, with two chomping at the bit to break out of the second round, having collectively killed an Lyran, an Andromedan, and a Kzinti.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 03:17 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

Despite Sir Cat Who Eats Photons having briefly become Sir Cat Who Eats Plasma

---

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 03:18 pm: Edit

I hang my head in shame as being the lone Fed to have fared poorly. (/jk.

Then again, the ISC is a fearsome opponent for the Fed.

The G rack no doubt helped with the Kzinti.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Not in any way to underplay the effectiveness of the Feds in the game:

-Fed vs Lyran and Fed vs Andro (2 of the 4 R1 games) were historically always advantage Fed (and that was even against the very good version of the Andro; this current version, which I still think is probably mostly viable, is likely an 8-2 odds for the Fed).

-Fed vs ISC is traditionally very hard for the Fed, so the Fed losing was no surprise.

-Fed vs Kzinti is also, also traditionally very hard for the Fed, but we know that in this particular game where the Fed won, a significant allocation error led to the immediate outcome (not to say that the Fed still might not have won anyway, but we do know that the game ended when it did due to an allocation error).

For R2, we got:

-Fed over Orion: Also traditionally viewed as a moderately favorable match up for the Fed, so the Fed winning is not breaking precedent here.

-Fed vs Andro again: I'm certainly interested to see how this one goes, but I'm not, like, gonna put money on the Andro winning (sorry, Paul :-)

-Fed vs WAX: A traditionally very pro WAX fight, so while I don't know the outcome yet, I'd not be surprised if the WAX wins that one (also sorry Majead :-).

I'd suspect that the Final Four is likely to have 2 Feds in it, but both of those Feds are likely to be facing ships that are hard games for the Fed.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Quit with the negative waves, Bakija (with a tip of the helmet to Kelly's Heroes).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 03:49 pm: Edit

:-)

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Peter,
That is ok. I am doing ok. Though, I think I might lose in the end. Because I have taken two Full Photon (4 fully OL Photons) spreads on my Front panels and it is half degraded. I feel like I need to get to a download shield this time around to have a chance to win.

So far, Seth has hit with 2 out of 4 Photons with each battle pass. (i.e. the reason I am still alive). I have taken down 2 shields (#1 and #6). Gotten around 15 internals. (no Photons yet, but I have gotten 4 power). Seth seems to be lining up for a slow speed next turn with him chucking out all for shuttles.

Note #1: Both Battle Passes were at Range 3.
Note #2: I forced Seth to HET to keep his down shield away from me as I displaced to the other side of him on my battle pass.
Note #3: The drone rack is dead after i phased to two drones. (I would have liked a phaser instead. :-) )

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 08, 2020 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Sweet! Unexpected! Keep hope alive!

Yeah, if the Fed hits with 2xOL at R3 (which isn't that unlikely, but I still think 3 hits at R3 is the most likely single result? I'm not super good with probability calculation...), the Andro has a chance.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Friday, October 09, 2020 - 09:58 am: Edit

I watched all the important parts of the game between Paul and Seth so far. Paul has played great considering the hand he is dealt. The truth is though that Seth had to miss TWICE with 2 photons at range 3-4 and not get a TR beam on 12 internals for Paul to still be in the game. Seth threw 6 Sixes on 10 dice in his first shot.

AND... Seth likely still wins if he only hits with 2 photons on the third pass. He could probably still win if he only hits with 1, it will just take another 2 turns.

In my mind the Fed should probably never lose to this Andromedan (players being equals). Like 1% of the time maybe. I don't think the G-rack changes that very much. The Fed has to miss with a lot of photons more then once. Like 3 times.

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Friday, October 09, 2020 - 01:20 pm: Edit

On a 1-4 hits with 4 shots:

Hits	Chance
0	0.012345679
1	0.098765432
2	0.296296296
3	0.395061728
4	0.197530864

Thus 3 is most probable, and 3+ is nearly 60%, but a single volley getting 2 hits is pretty normal.

For 8 shots at those odds:

Hits	Chance
0	0.000152416
1	0.002438653
2	0.017070569
3	0.068282274
4	0.170705685
5	0.273129096
6	0.273129096
7	0.156073769
8	0.039018442

The chance of 5+ hits is over 74%. The most likely result is a tie between 5 and 6. Four still isn't unreasonable, but if the phasers also rolled poorly, then I'd say the dice dislike this Fed.

Edited some for clarity.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, October 09, 2020 - 08:03 pm: Edit

For the Andromedan, the drone racks matters a bit.

I fired 3 phasers to kill 2 drones which means at least 2 more internals (since one of the phasers was used on a battle pass) and it let the Fed have 1 more phaser (i.e. the drone rack protected the phaser).

So it makes fighting the Fed incrementally harder (small increment as it is)

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, October 10, 2020 - 08:18 am: Edit

Agreed--in my game as Andro vs the Fed, there were 2 drones incoming on T2 when I was moving in for an initial strike, and while I killed them with a t-bomb, they did make me turn at a point when it was probably not super optimal to turn (I put out the t-bomb, certain it was going to get both drones, but then the impulse that the t-bomb was going to explode, it turned out that unless I turned in, it was only going to get 1 drone. Which is a thing that happens on SFBOL a lot :-).

Did this outright kill me? No, but it certainly had an effect on the game, and probably not a beneficial one for me.