Game: 2.04
Players: Andromedan (AND) vs. kingzila (FED)
Date/Time: 13 October 2020 7:00pm EDT

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Game 2.04 Update

Starting time has been moved to 7:30pm EDT

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Kingzila (Fed) over Andromedan (AND)

Fed snuck into Range 8 on rear panels and got 16 internals that blew away the batteries, 1 TRH and 2 P2s.

And the end of turn I was down to 17 total power and at range 1. Full panels (both front and rear) with 4 P1s ready to fire impulse 1.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 07:29 am: Edit

It was a noble attempt, Adromedan brother!

Yeah, this Andro is likely just hosed vs the Fed. But I wanna see it get more play against not the Fed. Which might just mean me continuing to play it and losing for the next few tournaments :-)

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 10:01 am: Edit

2.1 Devil (FED) v Droid (AUX) is underway.
3 turns complete. Continuation tomorrow...
The Aux is launching drones and firing weapons. The Fed is missing with photons, losing his drone rack before using it, and preserving his weasel options.
This Is The Way.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 10:02 am: Edit

I see the road to victory is paved with Feds.
I hope I don't screw this up

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 10:04 am: Edit

That was a quick summary! I tried to be clever and fired range 7 hoping for 2 hits and a couple of phasers, rolled one 3 rest 4,5,6 and got 5 and a 6 on p1. Idea was to try a mizza some weapons off on the next turn i1 but that Fed curse just does not let up

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 10:08 am: Edit

Maybe there could be a gentlemen's agreement to have more andros and fewer feds in the next go round.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 10:27 am: Edit

Heh. That'd be clever of us!

I think folks are actually interested in playtesting and getting the G-Rack Fed okayed for actual play. Probably more so even than the Andro; the Fed is already a mostly viable ship, and folks would like it if it were a little more viable (what with it being the poster child for the game and all); the Andro is still pretty fringey, even if this one is mostly viable, and a lot of folks would rather it just vanish anyway--even if it *is* a mostly viable ship and reasonably balanced, it is really hard for newer players to even grasp what is going on with the ship.

I mean, I'm in favor of a working Andro being in the tournament, even if it is a little under the power curve, but I fully understand the view of "let's just leave it terrible". The Fed, however, is something that everyone wants to work. So I dunno if folks would eschew the Fed in the name of the Andro. But then, if the next event had only a regular Fed but also the playtster Andro, probably fewer Fed. But, as noted, I suspect more folks are more interested in getting games in with the G-Rack Fed.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 10:29 am: Edit

Huh. Do we know that the Kingzilla vs ISC match is already done, with the Fed/Kingzilla winning, as the tree shows? Or is that another reporting glitch?

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 11:01 am: Edit

The problem with the *tournament* Federation ship is, was, and always will be the photon torpedo with its inaccurate die rolls. A G rack helps against D&D, and very marginally with other ships.

In fleet or squadron battles, the photon torpedo is *excellent* because the law of large numbers smooths out the to-hit statistics.

In duels, the photon torpedo's inconsistent "to hit" rolls can result in wild variations of the TCC's performance.

I will always advocate for a TCF version of the TCC. A ship with two photons that relies more on its phasers will be a much more stable competitor in terms of its performance as a duelist - and that is good for the "poster child" of the game, and hence the game.

I don't buy the principle that 10*ph-1 is a game breaker, not when you only have 2 heavy weapons.

I might be wrong. Maybe the TCF is no good for the tournament due to its power curve. However, I'm absolutely certain that the Fed TCC is always going to be an inconsistent, and thus sub-par performer in the tournament field simply because of the nature of the photon to-hit chart. A G rack won't change this fact that much.

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 11:33 am: Edit

The start of the Tournament I knew I was going to have little time to play so I thought I pick an easy ship where I don’t need to prepare or think about tactics. So I pick the FED. I have been playing SFB Tourment games off and on for 30 years. I believe I have played the Fed 5 or 6 times during that time period. I had no Idea the challenges of the FED.

1.08 Gregg (LYR) vs Kingzila (Fed) round 1
I can see very early in this game Gregg is an excellent player with crafty tactics that if he played a few games of general SFB before our game to knock the rust off I would have been out of the tournament round 1. I don’t remember the point in the game but I had a strong edge and just fired everything and Gregg did some fancy moving and got me range 2 with a tractor. Side not I have been swimming for 15 min a day in a hair over freezing mountain spring water and it must be affecting my memory. He messed up a speed change that effected his power and I realized he could not tractor me. If that tractor held I was dead. After that game I knew I had to think about how to rearm the photons because that is a challenge.

2.4 Kingzila (Fed) vs Andromedan (AND)
Frank gave the main highlight in this game with his post. I want to add that WOW he is an aggressive Andro with NO fear in death. Frank is the Andromedan alamo. The ADD/little drone rack has had game shifting effects on my first 2 games.

3.2 Cadet_Stimpy (ISC) vs Kingzila (Fed) round 3
Yesterday was the first time I did not swim instead I prep for my game with Frank’s Andro by shooting an AK47 and Gustloff KKW for a few hours right before the game. I was battle ready for the Andro. A few minutes after the Andro game I emailed Cadet_Stimpy to set up our next round game. Cadet_Stimpy gets the email and pop’s on the Client and said lets play now. OK. I knew this game was an uphill fight for me. Turn one I fully loaded photons and had a few weasels and went 16 with a semi corner dodge wanting to end the turn at range 15 or 16. ISC came speed 17 then 2nd half of the turn 31. Launches EPT and fires PPD on impulse 32 range 15. Turn 2 I was planning on going 31 for 18 impulse of the turn and to eat all his crap and hope for range 8 shot. When the ISC see the FED applying duck tape to the warp drives to hold them to the ship he knew he better get out of there fast. ISC launches standard G and F torp’s and HET’s away. I ran threw everything, the 1st EPT I take for full damage and the standard G was fake and take the F for 3 damage after phaser fire. I maintain the hunt with a plan on firing 4 OL photon on his #4 range 8 then the next impulse when he does not move turning away and firing 4 p1 that are left in the same shield. This all happens later in the turn and I use bats to go to I think speed 27. So the plan is in motion and I fire the 4 OL alone and he fires 2 p1 at me. Jack pot they all hit and do 40 internals. As the dust clears I send a shuttle to the ISC with our remaining duck tape so at least he can cover his ass. We where at this point my #1 to his #4 and I turn off and fire 4p1 and only do 3 more internals. The next few turns I run away rearm and ww an EPT. The ISC is doing a good job maintaining range 15-20. A few turns later I’m recharged and it takes a few more turns to work the ISC across the map after defending from PPD fire and EPT’s. Turn 6 and my shields are getting week and I am center map with ISC close to the edge. I know I need to deal with PPD and an EPT this turn. We are about range 16 or 17. So the plan is to deal with PPD and EPT this turn while maintain speed and taking minimal shield damage so I can run him down turn 7. Turn 7 all he has for me is one EPT and 4 p1 and I have enough shields to take it with no internals but would leave me with no shields at all except 10 or so on my 6. ISC is speed -8 trying to get away & I am fast. I run threw the EPT and charging with my semi ok # 6 shield looking like I can get a range 4 alpha strike. ISC does a speed change where I have to give him my naked #1 to get the r4 shot or try another run later. I go for it and mazia him for the next few impulses with phasers and photons. ISC mazia with his phasers. When the dust clears I have no shields except a few on my 6 and 20 internals and the ISC has 1 bridge box left to party from. This game I forgot I had the Add/drone rack but I think it would not have done much but did save a phaser hit early on. Stimpy played a great game for what he was faced with a jack pot early on.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 11:53 am: Edit

@Seth,

Yeah, the difference between your game with the ISC and mine is the fact that your photons hit.

Even then, you could have lost it, because the ISC is very difficult for the Fed to win against. It requires those early photon hits, and even then it can be hard.

Congrats, by the way - even with luck it's a hard-won victory!

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 01:05 pm: Edit

The Fed with the G rack is only a slight improvement on the Fed without as the Fed must still hit with the photons to win!
As Ted has said the Fed winning or losing seems to be dependent on the photons hitting! It needs to hit at least 50% of the time for the Fed to have a chance.
Unfortunately it does not most of the time!
If we are play testing the G rack then I say it should have it as I found, it doesn't overpower the ship.
PS I would rather have the Fed fast tourney ship with the 3 photons than the regular one as it is, much more balanced and even with not getting average hits with photons has a chance of playing on.
My Game with Droid to continue tomorrow and if I manage to hit with everything this time I will be still way down. The Fed must hit with at least 50% of photons the first time it fires, otherwise the prayer beads will be coming out!

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 08:59 am: Edit

The Wyn over the Fed. The outcome was kind of in the books after the photon misses but Andy also played very well! Good luck to everyone guys in the next rounds!

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 09:00 am: Edit

Paul its not letting me report my Loss!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 09:14 am: Edit

Looks good on the standings chart. So something worked :-)

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 09:43 am: Edit

Sapphire 2.1 Droid(AUX) v Devil (Fed G rack)

t1 I moved fast with a brick on #1.. Fed dodged to his corner. I assumed it was to engage on T2, but Majead fired on my #2 (unbricked) on 1.32. He missed with 3/4 and rolled badly on the 2 phasers he fired. This surprised neither of us. I had 5 drones on the board, turn ended.

T2 I moved fast.. he slowed to do speedy weasels. He handled the drones, but I got a R0 overrun on him that did 8 or so in after the shift. The internals were uncanny with a photon, 3 p-1s and his unused drone rack. Uncanny I say. The game was pretty much over here I think, through nothing great I did, or nothing bad Majead did.

T3 I moved fast. I thought about trying to get back to him, but he was moving slowly and well prepared for the tractor kill. I decided fly away to rearm and rebuild the drone wave. End of t 3 I launched 5 drones.

T4 I was facing D..Majead facing A about 11 hexes away, just out of FA I moved 23/17 and decided to forgo a tractor, as a R0 overrun is pretty good and takes less skill. I put a 14 point brick on #1. Majead does 8/4, prepared again for trac/drone defense. I really should have turned in immediately and followed the drones in behind my brick, but I oddly chose to give the drones some room to separate. So my delayed turn to C coupled with Majead's inconvenient turn to F gave him a shot on my 30 point, unbricked #6 shield. This time Majead rolled better and I took 18 or 20 in over two impulses. This netted 2 p-3, 1 p-1, 2 drone racks, 3 power and a tractor. There was no need for that, but I am bad at aiming bricks.

I continued to close and ended up doing a bunch of bad stuff with firing on downed shields, and Majead conceded about 4.23.

So we made a discovery here that I doubt anyone has ever thought about. The Aux is tough on the Fed, and in general if the FED can't hit with photons, it loses. This is almost irrespective of player skill. And the G rack has no bearing on any of this. Mind blowing..

Good game Majead. Buckle your chinstrap Evans

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 09:59 am: Edit

The Fed is dead.

I will not play the Fed tourney ship again: G rack or no G rack. The ship just isn't viable in the tourney field.

I will play Feds in regular SFB plenty, but the Fed TCC is just not good at dueling due to the unreliability of photons.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 12:27 pm: Edit

I think Paul Scott won Council of Five Nations about 6-7 years ago in the G rack Fed. He was headed for a loss against bakija's Gorn, but got the second tractor and was able to weasel off a passel of plasma...

But yeah. It has a rough time with alot of ships.
Take it as a lark and hope your luck shows up, but don't expect too much...
I think a rework would be good. Like Brook's Fast Cruiser 3 photon 40 power drone rack(s) 7-p-1 4 p-3 job from a few years ago..

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Any kind of fast cruiser design which relies more on phasers and less on photons is good.

I would love to playtest both Brook's TCF and my own TCF (very close to the "real" TCF at 2 photons and 10 ph-1) and see how they perform.

I'd be willing to invest some serious time into playtesting these ships if SVC or SPP would be willing to consider it - but so far I have seen no such willingness that I personally am aware of.

That's not a gripe against them, just a statement of fact.

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Ted the Fed CFF is a better ship with the 3 photons! It has the power and the padding to try and survive the first fire Photon miss. If it misses twice then that is the end of it anyway which ever ship you use!
Something is not as it should be with the Fed TCC even with the G rack! I've played the Shark most and find it a well balanced ship! I can not say the same of the Fed and I don't know why! It seems to be too reliant on majority of its photons hitting the first time around.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Ted:
I think 10 guns will put your version in eternal limbo. IMO we should concentrate on the CF version as it's had quite a bit of playtesting already, albeit a few years ago...and it was not bad at all.
I would be glad to fly it or against it if someone is into that..
We only have Sapphire for events I think we could organize an informal playtest soirée.
it would be a much stronger case to make to Steve if we had some data...

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 03:18 pm: Edit

So I haven't played Brian yet. I think I reported a win and Majead reported a loss. This may not be an issue, but Brian beat me in this matchup last time, and that was without the G rack.

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Bill Schoeller won with the Fed with G rack at the 2019 Council of 5 nations tourney as well.

But, the Fed does not have anything else other than a reasonably good direct fire crunch. Poor turn mode, no tertiary toys like an okay amount of drones, ESG's, fighters/web/what have you. It also has a specific disadvantage applied only in tourneys (cannot start with full overloads) that may not be necessary anymore? The range 1 feedback hurts quite a bit, too.

I'd like it if there was a Fed CF option. But would be unhappy if the regular Fed did not see any real amount of play.

Tim.