Against the ISC as a Disruptor/Drone ship, you generally want to keep your options open until you can find a window just to get on top of it and mug it (which is, well, generally what everyone does against the ISC...).

As the Klingon, I don't know that moving speed 12 early on T1 is necessarily the best move; yeah, you get the shuttle back, but then you are stuck at 24 for the first half of T2, which might not be the best situation a lot of the time. And early SP launch might not be the best plan as well, as if the ISC launches a bunch of plasma at you, you end up turning off anyway, and they it can deal with the SP easily while you are running from plasma.

Spending T1 moving faster (20 or so hexes) with standards and some reinforcement isn't at all out of the realm of reason. Hit a shield at R15, or just pressure forward and see if you can get him to turn off first and then shoot him. Save the SP for a turn when you are chasing him into a corner somewhere. Like, the ISC probably doesn't want to get inside of R8 on T1 anyway.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 11:39 am: Edit

I haven't played one in a tourney but I've never had luck in a 1-vs-1 match with a Klingon just running up and shooting. The saber dance seems necessary to juice up a shield or two before you can move in for the kill. Disrupters just don't pack the one-shot punch of other weapons.

This is also the recommended strategy in the tactics chapter.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, October 15, 2020 - 06:02 pm: Edit

There are many tactics for both ships. My favorite tactic as ISC against the Klingon is as follows:

Approach obliquely with the goal of reaching range 10 in such a way as to have both Plasma G's in arc. Launch two pseudo G torps and fire the PPD. At range 10, the PPD is at its best to hit range (9 on 2d6). The PPD can do 0 to 4+16+4 damage. The disruptors can do 0 to 12 damage. With the torpedoes on the board, it sometimes gives the Klingon pause. Should he fire now and then turn away or close to range 8 and then fire?
The ISC's goal is to maintain range 10 until the PPD's 4 impulses of firing are used up.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, October 16, 2020 - 02:41 am: Edit

How does the ISC stay out of R8 through the fourth impulse of firing? I would think you end somewhere like R5-7, which is probably closer than you'd like, unless they respect the double G launch (And few Klingons specifically would, I think...either in fiction or in the game).

If both are fake, Colonel Klink is doing the right thing by crashing them.

If only one is real, the good Colonel slips and takes it on the off side #2 or #6 (or #3/5 if he can get it!) and takes no internals.

If both are real, Col. Klink takes somewhere between 0 and 10 internals, depending on phaser fire and reinforcement, and is then within 8 hexes of an ISC, which hasn't turned off either yet due to the PPD.

Even without OLs armed, I think Colonel Klink is happy with that position.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, October 16, 2020 - 10:18 am: Edit

If the ISC fires at R15 (which it probably will do if it wants to avoid R8; the difference in damage is minimal; 1-3-1 over 4 impulses is 20 total damage while 1-4-1 over 4 impulses is 24 total damage, i.e. probably not enough to risk getting overloaded in the face), avoiding R8 is mostly trivial.

Keep in mind that the overloaded PPD is, generally speaking, not something that sees much use, as it is difficult to make work (you need to be between R8 and R4 for 6 full impulses, against an opponent that really probably wants to get to R1 as fast as possible). I've seen an overloaded PPD once and a while from a stopped opponent (although if you saw my recent Victory At article in CL#54, when my ISC opponent was stopped and had a reasonably perfect situation to use an OL PPD, it wasn't allocated as an OL, and it seems imprudent to use batteries to do so at the time, so even in a situation where it might seem perfect to OL a PPD, it doesn't always happen). The dream OL PPD scenario is "Rush your opponent, launch 40 plasma at them, they turn off as they didn't OL on T1, you then chase them, using an OL PPD for 6 impulses on their rear shields for 36 damage". But that doesn't happen much.

The ISC will usually launch an enveloped plasma G on T1. I mean, not always, and there are certainly various successful ISC strategies that involve "fire the PPD at R15 to see if they put a bunch of power into reinforcement, then rush them and try and hit them with 3 standard plasma torps and all the phasers when they don't have overloads...", but generally speaking, the textbook ISC T1 is "PPD at R15, launch an enveloper, turn off, avoid R8, and if they really rush you, launch 40 more plasma at the as they come in".

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, October 16, 2020 - 12:24 pm: Edit

I was referring specifically to the plan of firing at R10. I agree with everything Peter says above.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, October 16, 2020 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Of course, one of my favorite things about SFB is how aggressively "game theory" it is. An energy allocation and turn one (or turn X) plan is good, or not, based on what your opponent is doing.

Firing a PPD at r15, for instance, is a response to the threat of overloaded disruptors (or HB's, Photons, etc., but we were talking about a Klingon). If a Klingon fired standards at r15 and the ISC held fire for some reason, nothing is stopping the ISC pushing for a closer shot then.

The game design is very clever in that the information and range advantages of shooting second are so significant.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, October 16, 2020 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Heh, yeah, after I posted above, I realized that your comments were directly in response to "the ISC fires the PPD at R10"...

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Friday, October 16, 2020 - 08:37 pm: Edit

So, does the Klingon fire on the pseudos? The ISC can slip out a few times while the Klingon closes. The range 8 disruptors can do 0 to 24 damage. And the Klingon's 5 P1 (if he does not shoot at the pseudos) vs the ISC's 6 P1 should be a minor disadvantage. It is a gusty tactic to ignore 40 potential damage from torpedos.

I admit, I have dreamed of my opponent running from the ISC at range 8 so I could overload the PPD. It is very hard to do. The speed differential usually precludes this possibility.

The range 15 "duel" favors the Klingon in my opinion. After all, the Klingon will likely get a range 15 shot every turn while the ISC cannot. It is tough for the ISC to counter.

By Lee Hanna (Lee) on Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 01:01 am: Edit

HI, I'm the ISC in this battle. T1, I threw an enveloper and a pseudo around r13 and shot the PPD-- missed on the first 2 pulses. I didn't time my turn-away very well, so he could shoot the overloads. I should have started out at r15, as stated above.

We ended T2 with him 8-9 hexes away, with me on the mapedge oblique to him. So I got greedy, overloaded the PPD, and charged. I maneuvered poorly (ended up within R3 too soon), and he made me pay for it.

Definitely looking forward to the rematch...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 08:33 am: Edit

Overloaded PPD is so hard to use :-)

Did it work out at all? As mentioned above, I think the only time I have seen an OL PPD work out is with a parked ISC, and even then, you generally only get 5 pulses in (R8, 7, 6, 5, 4) assuming the opponent saw it coming and moved fast during the close in phase. Or 1 pulse as they fired the OL PPD at R8 while parked, and then their opponent turned off to R9...

I've read about the dream setup (OL PPD while chasing an opponent inside of R8 for 6 full pulses), but I have never actually seen it happen.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 10:35 am: Edit

All You need to do is get the other player to ED and use a WW. At end of turn would be best of course. Then as he can not move overload the PPD and let him eat it.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 11:11 am: Edit

Did the Klingon run the enveloper and pseudo out of gas before turning in? Or did he charge you and take it? I calculate 7 points to each shield, which is acceptable for the Klingon (well the first time anyway). At least with the PPD one gets to roll every impulse for a hit if one misses. The 2-6-2 damage will sandpaper the Klingon's shields, also acceptable for the Klingon.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Yeah, in the battle with Lee I did everything wrong. I approached with OLs, insisted on R8, took the OL shot and got all 4, but then turned off. Unfortunately, since I was on OLs and didn't have speed, I took the enveloper for full anyway, and then put a bunch of phasers into the pseudo, which I took at about 13 hexes.

So at end T1, I am down front shields to the PPD (although I was lucky on Wavelock and he missed two pulses), down all shields to the EPT, and he still has three torpedoes hot. AND I'm not pointed the right way and have to spend about six or eight impulses turning around on T2.

As stated, Lee was ahead (although not "winning" yet) after T1.

Turn two I chased, and he pitched some plasma that I maneuvered to take on separate shields and got an end of turn-ish R8 overload shot on his #2, so that he had weak #2 and #6.

On turn three we closed and he got too close too fast and lost the PPD (I think trying to make me pay for my i31 fire on T2, which meant most of my weapons were dead until i7).

But on i7 he had turned and slipped and was forced forward, so I slipped into R0 with my down #6 to his completely pristine #1.

Unfortunately for the ISC, the Klingon kind of laughs at 30 pt shields at R0, and he got unlucky and rolled a 5 for a p1 shooting a heavy drone, and then didn't move next impulse so it went in the hole... it went downhill from there.

I mostly just got lucky I could force a knife fight on t3 before ALL of my shielding was gone. I misplayed T1 badly and T2 at least a little. The dice were also reasonably friendly to me and somewhat unfriendly to Lee.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 10:41 am: Edit

You used the Klingon tactic of charge and overrun. Kudos.

Question, considering my tactic, would you still turn after you took your r8 shot? It is likely that you would fire some P1's at the pseudos. The ISC would likely fire 6xP1 at you at range 8. Later in the turn, you could be facing 2xG and 1xF if the ISC chases you. (I would chase the Klingon.)

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 02:10 pm: Edit

I'm thinking out loud here as I said but I don't think the Klingon should put phasers into non-enveloped torpedoes on Turn 1. The goal is to eat the torpedoes and get substantially closer than R8, eating the PPD for shield damage and doing internals in return.

The ISC firing phasers at R8 would be a green light to overrun, especially if the PPD is not finished firing.

Starting fire at R10, to keep the Klingon in FA, the ISC can't be moving "away", and therefore the Klingon should gain a hex every 3/4 impulses (assuming speed 24) probably with a bonus hex every now and then when the ISC is forced forward. By the end of PPD fire, the Klingon is inside R8 pretty much by force and can just pick an impulse to fire in the last 9 impulses of the turn.

But the Klingon doesn't fire until one of two (okay, kind of three) things happens.

(1) The ISC fires a third torpedo (real of fake, F or G) that the Klingon can avoid by turning off.

(2) The ISC is as close as it will get before end of turn.

(3) Range 0-1. (I'm assuming the ISC doesn't allow this.)

The critical thing is that the Klingon mostly doesn't care if those first two standard G's are real or fake. The Colonel can make a perfectly rational decision to run them over no matter what they are, as long as it guarantees something inside Range 6 on Turn 1, OR a second R8 overload shot on a fleeing ISC early on turn 2.

[I am playing Lee again this week, so maybe I shouldn't give too much away, but I think the game will be more useful to both of us the more we think about it in advance.

If you'd like a shot at my shiny new Klingon (I'm only learning it, and SFBOL) happy to give you a shot too.]

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Monday, October 19, 2020 - 09:34 am: Edit

Well it is a tactics discussion. You are a scary Klingon to ignore 2xG's whether real or not. At best it would only be 10 internals on a front shield not counting batteries or reinforcement. Still, the ISC does need to make progress.

If the Klingon closed to get a range 8 (or better) shot, the ISC has a big decision to make on the fourth impulse of PPD fire.

Presumably, the ISC 6xP1's would hit the PPD weakened shield when fired, getting some internals. The Klingon may get some internals on the fresh front facing shield depending on the die rolls (4xOL, 4xP1).

As a plasma player, I am waiting to see if the Klingon turns in. I tend to launch the bearing plasma torpedoes (all real at this point). If the Klingon turned out, I tend to turn in and pursue. The third choice is to maintain the status quo. A decision point is the impulse before one or both ships leave the FA.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 11:38 am: Edit

Well, if you want to watch the rematch it is on SFBOL at 8 est tonight. I'm not promising high-quality SFB, but both Lee and I proved in the first contest we weren't afraid to mix it up, so it should be at least interesting.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 01:00 pm: Edit

OK, I look forward to hearing about the tactics used (perhaps from both players) and the reasoning behind the tactics (after the battle of course - during the battle is too much to ask).

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Also, my opinion is that if a Klingon isn't scary it isn't doing it's job; it needs to be the bully threatening R8 overload shots, R3 P2 damage, and overruns. If it isn't a bully it's just a fragile, underarmed Wyn Shark. The Klingon has some weird things; it's fantastic at R8 and R4 due to UIM, has a big damage bump at R3 due to P2s, and is especially deadly in a knife fight. Against a lot of ships an opponent knows what range you want when you put the counter on the map (Hydrans...). The Klingon is always a threat to NOT fire.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 01:15 am: Edit

So we got through four turns of the rematch tonight.

Turn 1:

I wanted to try something different, so I planned to fire standards on Turn 1 and run out the first EPT, planning to crash the second one, and reinforce against the PPD. I plotted 15/16/25/26 for 19 moves, armed 4 standards, and put up 8 reinforcement on #6, #5, and #1.

The first turn went pretty much according to Hoyle. Lee fired an EPT and started the PPD at R15, and then a standard G next impulse. I continued to close, eventually firing 2 standards and 2 overloads at about R8, after forcing him to turn off, so that I could run out the torpedo. He fired his P1's at R10 before turning off, which seemed like an odd choice. He rolled awful, something like 666554

Turn two I again armed 4 standards, plotted 27/21 and ran out the Turn 1 EPT, following Lee back "East" along the bottom of the map, firing standards when he launched a rear F and then turning off to direction B to slip away from that torpedo.

At turn's end, I had him in the corner, but he had only used two real torpedoes and he had the PPT coming back. I armed 4 overloads and closed through the PPD again, losing most of my #1, and fired the disruptors at R8, hitting and doing 24 to his #2. I then turned off again to direction B to run off his EPT (launched at about R10). I wasn't going to get it out of the 15 point bracket (30 all around) so I slipped out, ran past it at impulse 11, shot it with a few p3's, and took 25 all around, then turned back in to chase, getting an i25 P1 shot at R4...

...and the dice deserted me. I rolled a bunch of 5's and 6's, not only failed to do internals but only managed to reduce his #3 to 8 boxes. At turn's end, my 3 point #2 was facing him, and his 18 point #4 was facing me, all at R4.

On i32 my SP bloomed, at about range 8-9 to his ship.

Turn 4 I armed 4 overloads and considered going 27 to start the turn, trying for the overrun. The problem with this is that I couldn't turn, couldn't get the weak #3, and he could just stop, weasel the drones, and make me eat plasma to get my shot and probably take internals while benefiting from the weasel shift and reinforcement.

So I hedged. I armed 4 overloads, refilled the phaser cap a bit, and did a fancy 16/15/14/15 plot that only moved 14 hexes but moved 3 of the first 5 impulses, so I could turn on i4 or i5. He went 24, meaning a 27 plot would have gotten range 3 and my P2 sweet spot. Oh well.

I blasted him with 'ruptors on i1, but rolled 5,5,6,6 (fortunately with the UIM, two hits, but that's pretty tough anyway). He fired his 360's, rolling 3,3 taking down my #2 after reinforcement. So only 16 on his 18 point #4. On i2 my phasers cycled, but I waited until I caught back up to R4 to fire at him, since he hadn't launched an F yet.

On i5, he launched an F, and I fired 5 p1 at R4, rolling 55612 (maybe 56612, I forget), which was, at least, better, doing eleven internals, which included the just-fired F torpedo, a p3, and a couple of impulse power.

He flew away, I turned off to get the f to fly a 6th impulse before it hit me, and we each circled.

At end t4, he is three impulses ahead of the chasing scatter pack drones, I have mostly turned around and am limited to Speed 28, if it matters, something like 20 hexes away. He has 11 in, I have none, but I have no significant front shielding, and he has a clean #5 and #6.

No discussion of what I will do next; we'll pick up sometime soon.

I think, probably, the Klingon is losing. The problem is - and I said this to Lee after the game - I don't have a good way to approach on t5 with a probable EPT and certain PPD waiting for me. I doubt the Klingon gets to make another pass without taking some internals...

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 11:10 am: Edit

Is Lee going to comment on the first 4 turns? May I assume that the PPD hit for the full four impulses? The bad dice did not help the KLingon.

Ack, firing P1's at range 10? Maybe at a down shield near the end of the turn. The bad dice did not help the ISC either.

It looks to me that the ISC is doing better in the rematch. Though the game is far from over.

Thank you for commenting Graham!

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 11:48 am: Edit

I don't know, but I wouldn't want Lee to think he had to. Writing it down helps me remember, and think, about it, so I do it.

The R10 shot made more sense than it sounds, although I woke up too when I saw it pop up. He was turning off, going into a non-PPD turn, and (since he didn't prep an EPT Turn 2) not planning to envelop a torpedo. He was going to have extra energy turn two and wasn't planning on getting close enough for rein or tractor to matter.

Interesting idea really; rather than fight on turn two to take advantage of the fact that I ran, he just floated away and planned to stay out of range 8 on that turn with speed alone (and one F torpedo, although I would not have gotten R8 anyway), and engage turn three with the PPD.

The 11 in are mostly irrelevant. Only two power hits, and through the #4 shield, which he obviously isn't going to show to fire the PPD.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 03:13 pm: Edit

In response to the question, yes, the PPD got wavelock immediately on both T1 and T3.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 08:15 pm: Edit

It is good that the PPD hit every impulse, it gives the ISC a chance.

I sometimes use an EPT and pseudo G on turn 1.

Plenty of power eh that explained the R10 shot? OK, that is a reason.

If I had extra power, I tend to recharge my batteries that I would normally use to reduce shield damage. One may also start repairing shield boxes with the extra power as well. That would take 9 energy. Maybe the ISC already did this.

Question, was your SP on the board when the R10 shot was made? If so, it might have been better to take it out and/or take out some of the drones - assuming it was "safe" to do so" (my opinion). It is a loose end that needs to be taken care of sooner rather than later.

It could be as you say that the ISC has a WW ready for this purpose.

I am thinking out loud in the middle of a skittles match - that is allowed.