Douglas Lampert:

Perhaps so, but remember the "Orion Academy" article published in a Nexus Magazine (and I believe republished in Captain's Log #13) where we are introduced to several Orion captains, including of course Deth O'Kay, who are not Orions by birth, nor raised in a Cartel. Okay is human and was (according to him) tossed out of Star Fleet for political reasons (he refused an order from a superior to kill innocent civilians ... again according to him). But another captain was a former Klingon officer.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, February 22, 2020 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Douglas Lampert:

Perhaps so, but remember the "Orion Academy" article published in a Nexus Magazine (and I believe republished in Captain's Log #13) where we are introduced to several Orion captains, including of course Deth O'Kay, who are not Orions by birth, nor raised in a Cartel. Okay is human and was (according to him) tossed out of Star Fleet for political reasons (he refused an order from a superior to kill innocent civilians ... again according to him). But another captain was a former Klingon officer.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, February 22, 2020 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick:

I have to question if a “one size, fits all” approach makes sense for Orion Pirate Cartels. While the point that ‘it requires professionals to operate and maintain not just the ships themselves, but the bases that service those ships” is accurate and required to support the various cartels and independent pirates activities, it should be noted that of the various cartels most operate in more than a single empire.

That means they must, to some extent at least, interact with the citizens of the area in which they operate.

From a gaming view, it would be easier to model all Orion Pirates the same. But the background strongly implies that the Cartels are able to interact with the local economies on any number of areas. From fuel and replacement parts to commodities, luxury goods to food staples. There are huge differences in how the Empires in the game treat their citizenry. The Klingons have a rather well advanced police state, the Federation a representative democracy, the Kzinti Hegemony and the Lyman Empire tilted more to a feudal system (note:I am not stating that the government is feudal, just that they retain some features of feudal systems.

The Cartels must be able to buy those items that they can’t steal or hijack, and they must manage to sell those things that are surplus to their needs. That means fences and cooperation with those individuals that they sell to, if only to avoid attracting unwanted attention from local law enforcement.

Just to address the “trust” issue for navigators on ships supporting cartel operations, but are not “real Pirate ships” (say free traders or free traitors passing as legit civilians for example”) it is unlikely that any officers or captains would have knowledge or a list of codes to all or most Orion “secret” bases.

More likely they would have “cell” knowledge. For security, such ships officers would have a contact that distributes orders to them, and perhaps one or two contacts (similar civilian ships operating as legitimate, but carry illicit cargos.)

That way, if caught, or arrested, the damage to the cartel is limited to the “cell”.

Some cells could operate in plain sight for years and not attract attention from police.

Just how the ship yards, repair bases, and depot level supply nodes work for supporting the cartels ships and bases inside all the various Empires is still a mystery.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 06:36 pm: Edit

IIRC there is a fiction piece with some of the above addressed. A Orion "pirate" operates across the Klingon/ Lyran border and has a minor facade as a trader/ smuggler.

As for shipyards and such. I suspect much of the Orion repairs are performed by "grey" repair freighters. So "the good repair ship Rivet Regina" takes honest(ish) jobs often enough that the local police are used to seeing them wandering around, and when contacted by the Cartel they arrange a midspace RV to fix that "doubling damage, phaser scars, etc."

It's BUILDING ships that is so very hard. Hence the usefulness of the "Cluster Cartel."

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 10:32 pm: Edit

I do think it's interesting to compare the "active" security of the Cluster Cartel with the "passive" security afforded to the Capital/Dragon Cartel(s).

The Cluster Cartel shipyard is "in the open", in the sense that everyone knows that it is there; though anyone from the outside would have to fight their way through the radiation shell, the WYN Navy, and the Cluster Cartel's own "security force" to get to it. Of course, the Usurper showed how vulnerable its ownership could be if one was already well established inside the WYN Cluster, though that problem more or less resolved itself during the War of Return.

On the other hand, no-one in the Orion Enclave government would ever admit to their being any sort of pirate yard facilities inside their space. But then, since the Federation Police are barred from operating in Orion Enclave space when the Orions were in the Federation, and the Coalition agreed to respect the Enclave's neutrality when they weren't, no-one not already "in the know" would be in a position to go looking for such facilities, at least not this side of the Andromedan invasion. Although, as amply demonstrated over in the "dark future" timeline outlined in Module C3A, such facilities in Orion Enclave space might find themselves uncomfortably exposed if an outside force with the required means, motive, and opportunity was determined to go looking for them...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Not sure that “Federation Police are barred from operating in Orion Enclave” is necessarily the best way to phrase the delicate relationship between the Orion Enclave and Federation.

Lots of things that are taken for granted would need to be determined in detail when dealing with the Orion Enclave.

For example, did the Federation Express Corporation operations continue unchanged through the whole Enclave period? Or did the FEC have to reroute it’s couriers, long haul freighters and change the contracts of the sub contractor delivery of local shipments?

What about escorted convoys? (Both military and civilian)? If the convoys destination was beyond the Enclave border, did the ships have to detour around the border of the Enclave?

What about civilian cargo deliveries? The modular cargo pods carrying the Orion Enclave cargos would be owned by Federation shipping companies. Does that mean a deep space rendezvous where the cargo gets off loaded from Federation freighters and the reloaded on to Orion Enclave approved shipping companies?

How about passenger service? Diplomatic, civilian, even foreign representatives from the Gorn Confederacy and the Kzinti Hegemony would have to don space suits and transfer to a approved Enclave passenger vessel?

And let’s not forget the sub space communications systems. (CCS bases). Did they continue operating unchanged? SVC once posted to the proposals section ( in a now deleted folder) that most sub space comm services handled civilian communications with the Federation Postal Union Service. When the Enclave took over, did they appropriate the FPU systems bases and offices?

What about contracts? Did they suddenly become null and void upon the secession? Insurance, bonds, financial documents, bank accounts, even employment contracts? Did a huge portion of the Orion population suddenly become unemployed over night?

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Monday, February 24, 2020 - 06:24 pm: Edit

I think there was some background related to commercial traffic adjacent to Enclave space in the "Orion Stampede" scenario in module R8 but I don't recall what it was.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Saturday, February 29, 2020 - 08:11 pm: Edit

SPP, is there any historical evidence of 3 Andromedan ships equipped with Displacement Devices operating in the same battle fleet where one of the three ships did not use it's displacement device?

Thanks in advance.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Sunday, March 01, 2020 - 04:51 am: Edit

Thomas Mathews:

Are you asking if three motherships can be present?

Technically, with normal satellite ships, two Dominators, or two Intruders, or one of each, might have a satellite ship aboard with a displacement device.

By Thomas Mathews (Turtle) on Sunday, March 01, 2020 - 09:03 am: Edit

I was asking if more than 2 ships can have displacement devices in a given battleforce regardless of if they are motherships or not.

I know the Displacement Device rules say that only 2 ships in a given battle force (usually motherships) can use their DDs without penalty, but if a third ship is present it can't unless one of the original 2 is destroyed.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, March 01, 2020 - 03:04 pm: Edit

According to (MS1.26) in SFB Module C5, it was more common historically for the Andromedans to assemble forces under (G18.85) in the Lesser Magellanic Cloud than it was in the Milky Way Galaxy, as the ships of the Magellanic empires were no faster than the Andromedans themselves were when operating off the RTN. As noted in A Brief History of the Andromedan War from Captain's Log #49, the corollary of this was that the Andromedans built up a much denser RTN in the Milky Way than they had done - or, perhaps, had felt the need to - in the LMC, the ring of bases they established to surround the Core region of the Cloud notwithstanding.

Notably, even in the (T12.0) Fall of Demorak campaign in SFB Module C3A, the Andromedans do not use (G18.85); they must use the same two-DisDev limit in each battle round, with the partial caveat SPP noted where any satellite ships which are normally equipped with their own DisDevs may be carried in by a Mothership, yet must keep these devices inactive while the first two DisDevs are in operation [under (G18.82) and (G18.84)].

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 01:06 pm: Edit

In the classic Star Trek episode "Balance Of Terror", the Romulan Commander and Centurion talked of serving in a hundred campaigns together and how many lost comrades they shared. In the SFU world, who were they fighting? The Gorn, ISC, or enemies internal to the Empire?


Garth L. Getgen

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Well they did fight the Federation before that as well. Also how long do Vulcans live? As they are a offshoot of them? Also were they also fighting other major houses? Trade wars fighting over the very limited resources in Romulan space?

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Campaigns of genocide against indigenous peoples who, because they were exterminated before the Federation was able to "First Contact" them, the only records of their existence were, "Artifact(s) from an Extinct Peoples?"

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 - 05:42 pm: Edit

As noted in the Alpha Octant timeline, the Romulans had fought four wars with the Gorns prior to the Y150s, losing all but the first of them. (Had the Gorns not been held back by "Paravian Guilt", they would have likely pressed forward to confine the Romulans to their respective planets.) Plus, even during peacetime, a significant number of cross-border "Privateer" raids into Gorn space would be carried out.

Also, the Empire spent several decades dealing with various Orion "pirate kingdoms", which many Romulans considered to be a thinly-veiled Federation invasion.

Actually, there was a mysterious (to the Romulans) opponent which found the sublight Empire to be ripe for conquest; coincidentally, they happened to vanish just as the Romulans gained a strongly isolationist new neighbour along the border region coreward of Federation-held space. I wonder what happened there...

And alongside all of this, a combination of weak central governance and unchecked Great House factionalism prevented the Romulans from mustering an effective response to their ongoing problems more often than not during this era.

There is more detail in Prime Directive Romulans regarding the Great House rivalries, which Emperors and Praetors were around at which points in time, and when the Empire later discovered the three "suppressed species" in the far reaches of Romulan space.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 12:35 am: Edit

There may even have been hyperbole involved.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 10:03 am: Edit

Mike Grafton:

wrote on February 23rd 06:36

As for shipyards and such. I suspect much of the Orion repairs are performed by "grey" repair freighters. So "the good repair ship Rivet Regina" takes honest(ish) jobs often enough that the local police are used to seeing them wandering around, and when contacted by the Cartel they arrange a midspace RV to fix that "doubling damage, phaser scars, etc."

It has been noted that the Orions get repairs from a Cartel base station (under contract), and supply, replacement crew, shore leave, fuel, expendables, and unload their cargo goods.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Wayne:

I agree to a point. BUT, you are not going to wander all the way over to the closest Orion Base Station every time you need any kind of repair you can't do yourself.

Hence the "grey" repair freighter.

Heck, I'd be stunned if there weren't hidden micro orion bases for minor repair & resupply work all over the place. a repair pod plus some kind of cargo/ power/ habitat pod and there you are. A large freighter could drop it off in an asteroid belt and there it would sit. DOESN'T even have to be manned. It would need to be fully self contained so a pirate under repair can turn off all power, life support, etc.

When Orion pirate Phil needs a bit of repair that he can't do with the parts and tools available, he subspaces the Cartel Lord. Gets a coded message telling him where the closest such base is, and the codes to disarm the self destruct. He wanders over there, disarms it, and his own crew do the necessary drawing down the parts/ fuel/ etc and using the big "repair stuff" that isn't practical to tote around on a small ship.

When he is done, he subspaces the Cartel lord. Who send over a large freighter to pick it up, tally up the bill, and move it to a new location.

Yet another source of income for the Cartel lord. And another reason for the Cartel to have their own fleet of freighters ambling around all the time.

The point is that if you get damaged a couple F&E hexes away from the closest cartel Base Station, it is going to take a LONG time for you you to get over there... And time is money.

And of course, if your pirate ship is clocked by the local cops/ fleet closely, it can be indetified INDIVIDUALLY. IIRC there is a "tac intel level" that lets you get the ship name! But you could make enough little mods to your pirate (move the antennas, paint a little bit, retune the engines, recalibrate the scanners, etc) to get around that...

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Thursday, May 21, 2020 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Mike, your comment about "... (move the antennas, paint a little bit, retune the engines, recalibrate the scanners, etc)..."

... Reminded me of the superstructure rework of the MV Julius Fucik (I believe the ship was named) in the novel, "Red Storm Rising." It was that disguise, making her appear as a Lykes Line ship, that enabled the Soviets to take Iceland/Operation Polar Glory.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 08:38 am: Edit

Probably something only SVC can answer: Just how big was the Second Federation-Romulan War of Y154-Y155?? As in, roughly how many ships were involved on each side? Any idea how many ships were crippled / destroyed??


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 01:24 pm: Edit

In Advanced Missions there is a rule on Orion operated freighters (R8.11) which notes that the Orions operated repair freighters.

One can assume that in an area where there will be increased Orion raids that such a freighter is positioned.

However, the repairs they provide are limited by (D9.4) because they are the source of (D9.4) repairs, and if you need further repair beyond (D9.4) you need a base.

From the rule on Repair Freighters:

These ships were designed to provide repair and logistics support to units operating away from bases. The repair freighter can dock directly to the ship (C13.9) to provide repairs (G17.0) or can provide the equivalent of 20 turns of repairs between rounds of a campaign game (D9.4). The total system boxes repaired by a repair freighter (or repair tug, or several such ships) cannot exceed (D9.4), in as much as these ships are the source of (D9.4) repairs.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, May 22, 2020 - 07:48 pm: Edit

In WW1 the SMS Emden rigged up a fake funnel so she'd look like a british cruiser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Emden

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Saturday, May 23, 2020 - 11:23 am: Edit

There are rules for and the Cost of putting dummy weapons on ships. using cover plates over weapons. These are covered in G-3 and in the tactical Int. rules.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, May 24, 2020 - 12:23 pm: Edit

If it helps, the lead story fiction and scenario from Captain's Lgo #43, titled A Measure of Fear, is set during the Second Federation-Romulan War.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Sunday, May 24, 2020 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Thanks, Gary. I'll check that out.


Garth L. Getgen