Archive through November 24, 2020
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module X2: a project for the future:
Archive through November 24, 2020
I do not recall ever considering the idea of using heavy battle cruisers. I cannot recall having heard of the idea but I do not recall what I had for lunch last Monday. (For all I know it was at the time my idea.) I see no reason to consider that now and two big reasons not to.
BCHs could not have X tech and so would have been in the naval architecture syllabus any more.
It would make for a crowded SSD.
I think the 2X ships should be smarter not bigger.
Foggy memory from the Old Days tells me someone said X-ships should be based on the CCH / CB, not the BCH.
Garth L. Getgen
It was in text from Module X1, which stated the BCHs could not handle the stress of X1-technology but were able to handle 2X.
That said, it was 30 years ago and probably an off-hand remark at the time. It likely came up to answer why the CXs were based on CA/CCs instead of the better BCH designs (which weren't in the game yet, same as the CBs/CCHs).
Easy enough to ignore.
I like smarter 2X ships.
Speaking of old text which might (or might not) be of any relevance: (H5.5) notes that X2-batteries can hold up to five points of power, and that they can retain "warp power" over multiple turns.
It's already been suggested above that X2-batteries could end up holding either 4 or 5 points of power. But could the ability to retain warp power over multiple turns be on the table here, or might that be a step too far?
SVC WILL THINK ABOUT IT BUT THINKS IT MAY BE TOO FAR.
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So far as the size ceiling for X2-ships goes, I note that even after the onset of "modern" (GURPS Prime Directive Tech Level 12) starships, it took a few decades more for the likes of the Federation and Klingons to begin fielding "early" dreadnoughts; and a decade or two after that to begin bringing those dreadnought hulls up to the "full" standards as seen in the General War.
So if the door were to be left ajar for X2-hulls larger than a heavy cruiser to emerge at some point, it's quite possible that one might not see such units in service until years, or perhaps decades, after Y205 - even with the Xorkaelian invasion of Y210 acting as a likely catalyst.
SVC DOES NOT WANT TO OPEN THAT DOOR.
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While I, along with everyone else in this discussion, waits to see what the "Option One" ships look like, I was wondering: might an "Option 1.5" be a potential alternative? As in, to only set the 50%-damage-from-non-X2-ships rule in place for the shields, but to leave the hull itself the same as in "Option One".
Now, if the box count of the "Option One" shields turn out not to be a problem, well and good. But I still like the idea of keeping the box count for X2-era shields (at least) from getting too crowded, not least if it helps make X2-vs-X2 battles more dynamic.
SVC NOTES THE UNIVERSAL HATRED OF HIS 50/200 PLAN AND DOES NOT EXPECT ANY PART OF IT TO SURVIVE.
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On a side note, if "line" X2-ships were to have stronger shields in the #1, #2, and #6 facings, I would still hope for a would-be "XGS" to have the same all-around shield coverage as seen on the GSC and the GSX.
But, I suppose it's best to make sure that the "line" ships themselves work properly before considering the needs of the Second Fleet in the X2-era - greatly expanded as those would be, in light of the vast new areas of exploration being opened in this time period.
SVC THINKS THAT THE FORWARD SHEILD ARRANGMENT WOULD APPLY TO ALL X2 SHIPS.
Would the hydra sound get x 2f fighters
SVC SAYS THAT IT PENCILLED IN BUT NO PROMISES WERE MADE.
I mean Hydrans
I thing Hydrans get fighters instead of rattles when they're infants.
This could turn into a paperwork nightmare BUT...
"What If" 2X ships, when fighting non-X ships, could treat the non-X ships as having "Leaky Shields*?"
SVC SAYS MAYBE.
"What If" 2X ship shields could "Regenerate**?"
SVC SAYS SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS IN FC.
(* Perhaps with phasers only?)
(** IIRC, there is a rejected proposal on this idea in one of the Stellar Shadows Journals; perhaps this is a place for it? 
)
These are a couple off-the-cuff brain-drizzles (the absolute weakest form of "Brain Storm") and are meant more as a "What do you think?" than as any sort of request.
I like the leaky shields rule for non-X ships, beautifully simple.
I'd be surprised if this hasn't already been suggested, but a "juggernaut"-type rotatable extra shield is a good defensive improvement.
/me shrugs.
Actually something sort of like it (a "reserve shield" that takes anything coming through) was considered but didn't play well with the "weaker rear shields to encourage maneuver" concept.
As a follow-up to the "leaky shields" idea above: if players are already using this option and have set it to a certain rate, perhaps X2 weapons firing at pre-X2 shields would leak at twice that rate?
SVC SAYS THAT'S A HOUSE RULE AND SUCH PLAYERS CAN INVENT THEIR OWN HOUSE RULE TO SOLVE THE NON-PROBLEM.
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While the current focus is on the Federation and Klingons, I've been thinking about what the advent of second-generation X-technoolgy might mean for the Romulans.
It was noted in the prior Module X2 thread that pre-X2-ships cannot be upgraded to X2-technology; all X2-ships must be new hulls. If this remains so (and I hope it does; for that matter, I wouldn't want to see "partial-X2 refits" of any kind either), this might leave the Romulans at somewhat of a design crossroads.
Well, that and considering all of the economic and logistical chaos that the Romulans had experienced during the General War, the Romulan Civil War, and the Andromedan War - not least of which being the fallout from the destruction of Remus.
By the time the Constitutional Monarchy has any time to catch its breath in the wake of Operation Unity, a choice would have to be made in relatively short order: since all of their X2-ships would have to be built from the keel up, should they attempt to replicate one or more of their pre-existing "series" (Eagle, Kestrel, and/or Hawk) of starships in the new era - to include potentially importing Klingon X2-ships, should the Empire be willing (or indeed able) to sell any of theirs - or should an entirely new "series" (named after some other type of bird) be worked up to suit the Romulans' needs and capabilities, as they would be by Y205?
I'm not sure what the answer would be, but I do have one thought: the "Sparrow-Axe" does not retain the modularity of the pre-X SparrowHawk; the mission modules have to be hard-welded to the hull. If the Romulans were to revisit the concept of mission modules for their X2-ships, perhaps they would be able to construct a range of new, purpose-built X2-modules to use with them?
If the rear shields are weaker why would the reserve shield affect maneuver? Weak rear shield + reserve is still weaker than forward shield + reserve.
I'm not in much of a hurry to see rotating/rotary and/or secondary/inner shields adopted by empires in the Alpha Octant. For what it's worth, I'd prefer to see these technologies retained by those non-Alpha empires which currently use them (and perhaps to be later refined by them, should any of those empires be given X-ships of their own someday).
That said, it might be worth noting that the inner shields on LMC warships [(MD2.121) in Module C5] are hemispheric (FH/RH) in nature. For example, if a Magellanic warship wants to use its transporters, it has to drop both the facing inner and outer shield under (MD2.41), thus weakening the overall shield strength in the other two outer facings otherwise being augmented by the facing inner shield.
Now, I'm not saying that Alpha Octant X2-ships should "borrow" any aspect of the LMC inner shielding system - though the engineering teams working on X2-tech back in Alpha would be made aware of its existence in light of Operation Unity. But if things end up leaning towards some sort of "reserve shield" for Alpha X2-ships, at least there is a precedent of sorts in the game system for implementing this in a manner that retains the onus on maneuver.
I re-read the old Supplement #2: X-Ships this weekend and recommend that everyone read those rules and the designer’s notes if you haven’t already.
One aspect I liked is the increase in importance of X2 batteries, especially when coupled with the more efficient shield reinforcement. With ~5 batteries holding 5 points of power each, the X2 ships would vastly outperform non-X ships (X1 ships, too, but to a lesser degree) but would have a different dynamic against other X2 ships while they each have to decide how to best use their precious battery power.
How did this work in practice? Not sure but we all know the Patrick Duffy rule. Previous X-tech was dominated by overloaded phasers and those are gone now so it would play differently. I think the above is a potentially interesting and unique dynamic with no increase in SSD boxes.
One aspect I don’t like is every heavy weapon becoming single-turn arming.
Maybe the X-Ships are the ones with the leaky shields and they need a secondary shield to intercept the leakage. Why do we assume that all that fancy advanced tech doesn't have some drawbacks?
Reading Supplement #2 is a VERY BAD idea as nothing there is relevant to Module X2 except by accident.
I've actually started concept art for an X2 Romulan SpH hull design; not completely easy without knowing the weapon mounts....but so far the drawing is pretty slick :D
Simple, replace all plasmas with plasma-R. All existing plasma-Rs are doubled.
Like Gary, I was curious about whether they'd have modules as well. Not that my design couldn't incorporated either.
Romulan modules on 2X ships can change their own configuration once per turn. They only require 1/4 turn between changes to use any systems.
Romulan modules on 2X ships can change their own configuration once per turn. They only require 1/4 turn between changes to use any systems.
Now THAT is munchkin!
There is one "Munchkin*" Plasma idea I've thought about; what if Plasma Torpedo tubes had a "Magazine" of Pseudo Plasmas? It could, in theory, mean that any given tube could fire off two (or more) torpedoes, simultaneous or in short order, all headed towards the same target, with only one being real; the other(s?) are pseudos. IMO, that could VERY drastically increase the power of plasma torpedoes without quite the same need for faster units, larger warheads, or whole new torpedo types.
(* very, VERY bad... )
(If this idea has been considered and rejected, I'll happily withdraw the proposal)
Hey, our first volunteer to try out the X2 Booth.
Quote:By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 - 05:34 pm: Edit
Romulan modules on 2X ships can change their own configuration once per turn. They only require 1/4 turn between changes to use any systems.