Frank Lemay:

As noted, if the DefSat launched a drone (or a plasma torpedo, or a Quantum Wave Torpedo, your ship had lock-on in the Direct-Fire phase of that same impulse and could fire any direct-fire weapons that were qualified. Since it was Impulse #32, You could have started the next turn at Speed 6, and made the roll to retain lock-on, and since you can count the hexes between your ship and the DefSat (or Captor Mine) you would know how long you had to go speed six for your own seeking weapons to reach the target. Then you could accelerate to, at least, Speed 16 (which is not a bad combat speed. but that time at six and the delay of going faster than Speed 16 into the next subsequent turn could be problematic). I have to admit that it is a lot to hang on a 2/3ds chance of a lock-on, but sometimes the payoff is worth it.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, January 06, 2021 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Cool.
Maintain speed 6 until drones impact and then accelerate to speed 16.
That will work quite nicely !

Thanks again SPP.

Cheers
Frank

By Tim Tow (Tim) on Wednesday, January 06, 2021 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Thanks. Si- stands for sublight improved, then and S-sublight.


It would be good to have a key to suffixes like this on tables or add the suffixes to the general index of acronyms.

The remaining question is if the ground combat potential values for the A-GAS, A-GBS, and A-HAS are upped by 1 per Module J2, R1.F18, R1.F183, and R1.F193, which says Advanced GAS. GBS, and A-HAS have their ground combat offensive potential increased by 1.

Right now these 3 units as listed on D15.87 have the same Ground combat potential as their non-advanced brethren.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, January 06, 2021 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Question re QWT running into asteroid hexes.
A 6 is rolled resulting in 30 damage.
How much damage is this to the QWT ?
Is it 30 so 1 to 1.
Is it 10 so 3 to 1.
Is it 15 so 2 to 1.
FQ1.38 is not clear to me.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, January 07, 2021 - 07:45 am: Edit

Frank,

(FQ1.38) damage is computed exactly as for plasma torpedoes except that it takes half again as much damage, i.e., three points instead of two.
(the wording is a little confusing)

30 damage in (FP1.613) (FP1.611) is every two points of damage reduces warhead by one, we get 15 damage.

QWT it is every three points of damage reduces warhead by one, we get 10 damage.

QWT seem to be better at going through asteroids,

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, January 07, 2021 - 07:58 am: Edit

Wayne,
That is the way we played it, 3 to 1 so 10 damage but a very well learned scholar told us it was 1 to 1 thus this question !
:>)

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, January 07, 2021 - 03:30 pm: Edit

(FQ1.38) i.e. three points instead of two. On the (P3.2) effect chart, for speed 32 there is no 2 collision damage, the only 2 reference I see is in (FP1.611) every two points of

By Peter DiMitri (Pdimitri) on Thursday, January 07, 2021 - 04:13 pm: Edit

(C12.313) No mid-turn speed change may be made before Impulse
#4 (1/8 turn) or after Impulse #28 (7/8 turn) of a given turn. (Because
changes are announced on the previous impulse, the earliest
announcement would be on Impulse #3 and the latest on Impulse
#27.)

(C12.342) Fighters, but not non-fighter shuttles, can make unplotted
accelerations and decelerations (in their basic, non-boosted speed) at
any time so long as no change is within eight impulses of the
previous change and so long as no change is more than one-half of
the maximum non-boosted speed of the fighter.

So the first section says that speed changes can't happen before impulse 4 or after impulse 28, but the second section says that fighters can change speed at any time.

Which is it? Can fighters change speeds after impulse 28 and before impulse 4?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, January 07, 2021 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Peter DiMitri:

I cannot recall that question ever being asked before. I think that until this moment the majority of players simply assumed the acceleration limits of (C12.313) also applied to the fighters and shuttles as they are a sub rule of (C12.3) and (C12.342) was simply an enabling rule.

So, unless SVC were to answer differently, he limits on (C12.313) apply and (C12.342) is simply enabling fighters to do non plotted accelerations and shuttles to do plotted accelerations and the "any time" is within the limits imposed by (C12.313), i.e., the fighters cannot make a non-plotted speed change before Impulse #4 and, yes even though (C113.342) does not say anything about announcements, they have to announce the impulse before.

By Peter DiMitri (Pdimitri) on Thursday, January 07, 2021 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Thank you SPP.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 09:00 am: Edit

SPP,
Couple more questions re DEFSATs.

Having learned the turn before, ship moves speed 6 for entire turn. DEFSAT 1 and 2 are locked on by the ship's crew but not 3,4,5.

Early in the turn, DEFSAT 3,4,5 launch their QWTs.
Ship get a lock on to 3,4 but not 5.
At this point, we theorized if the ship moved faster than speed 6 now, lock on to DEFSAT 1,2 is lost but not to DEFSAT 3,4.
Is this correct SPP ?

Mid turn sees DEFSAT 1,2 launch their QWTs.
Now a couple of theorized situations for the ship.
A- If lock on to DEFSAT 1,2 is successful, the ship can now move faster than speed 6 since the new lock on roll is attained mid turn after DEFSAT 1,2 launches ?

B- If lock on roll is not successful to DEFSAT 1,2, is the successful lock on roll done at start of turn to these 2 DEFSATS still applies or is that lost as well ?

C- If B answer is the lock on roll at start of turn is lost, can the ship choose not to roll for mid turn lock on so that it can keep the start of turn successful lock on making sure to stay speed 6 or slower ?

Thanks for your help SPP !

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 01:00 pm: Edit

Fank Lemay asked: Early in the turn, DEFSAT 3,4,5 launch their QWTs.
Ship gets a lock on to 3,4 but not 5.
At this point, we theorized if the ship moved faster than speed 6 now, lock on to DEFSAT 1,2 is lost but not to DEFSAT 3,4.
Is this correct SPP ?

REPLY: You have a lock on the impulse the DefSat fired (R1.15E) which references (M7.4), which takes you to (M7.41) for the lock-on conditions, BUT (M7.42) is conclusive that if you move faster than Speed 6 the lock on is then lost. So the ship, when it accelerates to faster than Speed 6 no longer has a lock on to any of the DefSats. Note once again that you gained a lock on to DefSats 3 and 4 the impulse they fired, and could have fired on them that same impulse regardless of your speed, but at the start of the following impulse if you were moving faster than Speed 6, you lost that lock on (and if you were moving Speed 6 or less you had only a 67% chance of retaining the lock on).

Frank Lemay asked: Mid turn sees DEFSAT 1,2 launch their QWTs.
Now a couple of theorized situations for the ship.
A- If lock on to DEFSAT 1,2 is successful, the ship can now move faster than speed 6 since the new lock on roll is attained mid turn after DEFSAT 1,2 launches ?

REPLY: If the ship is moving faster than Speed 6, lock on is lost.

Frank Lemay asks: B- If lock on roll is not successful to DEFSAT 1,2, is the successful lock on roll done at start of turn to these 2 DEFSATS still applies or is that lost as well ?

REPLY: There is no subsequent lock on roll if you are moving faster than Speed 6. You have a lock on the instant the DefSats (or captor mines) launched seeking weapons, and you can fire on them because Seeking Weapons Launch is AFTER lock ons but before direct-fire, if you were moving Speed 6 or less you can roll to retain that lock ons the next turn, but if you fail to do so at that point, you cannot fire on the DefSat or Captor mine on such a subsequent impulse.

Frank Lemay asks: C- If B answer is the lock on roll at start of turn is lost, can the ship choose not to roll for mid turn lock on so that it can keep the start of turn successful lock on making sure to stay speed 6 or slower ?

REPLY: The roll for lock ons cannot be saved. It has to be made when called for. That is to say have to roll on the following Impulse. If you choose to forego that die roll (for what ever reason), then you have no lock on from that point and cannot regain a lock on until the DefSat fires again.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Well that changes things !!
LOL.

Thanks SPP !

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 04:51 pm: Edit

One more thing re DEFSATs,
Can shuttles/fighters/MRS roll for lock on ?

It seems they cannot as per M7.44 ?

That being the case, shuttles etc cannot fire on DEFSATs then ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Frank Lemay:

Sadly, DefSats can fire on the helpless shuttles, at least with their phaser-3s, but the shuttles (or fighters) even if at Range 0, do not have the kind of fire control that will allow them to engage the DefSats.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Yep, that is sad !
:>(

Thanks once again SPP !

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Time to paint fighter kills onto those DefSats:>

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 09:57 pm: Edit

Yep, they got 3 AAS kills !

Lesson learned eh !
I'll be better prepared next time !

Cheers
Frank

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 10:26 pm: Edit

A few more questions lol...from the Game Frank asked about. We had a moon. No atmosphere in an asteroid field map. Bomber base on the moon.

Can the bombers take off and immediately fly.

The moon acts as a partial lock-on breaker. 50% to any seeking weapons on the other side of the moon. So a Defsat has a drone launched at it. Defsat is in E 1 hex from the moon low orbit. Drone is in E 2 from the Defsat and 3 from the moon. Defsat2 is sitting across the moon at range 1.

So....the moon is in the way to Defsat 2 seeing the drone clearly. It has a 50% of lock-on. Rolls and maintains it. Every impulse the drone is behind the moon....even if it started at say range 5...you have to roll to maintain lock-on? And if you do. Is there ECM benefit applied to the drone other than the chance to lose lock-on. Or do you roll for lock-on only when you want to fire to see if you have it?

And last, does or could the transporter lock-on effect apply to the Defsat on the opposite side? All Defsats are controlled by ground bases. So a ground base facing the incoming drone, but controlling the Defsat on the other side of the moon, would the controlled Defsat be working off its own sensors or the sensors on the ground base? Also because of the transporter idea, could a ground base on the wrong side still see an incoming drone with lock-on because the Defsat on that side sees it clearly? So the Ground Base would have a lock-on and all Defsats it controls would have a lock-on.

And since I am asking all these questions, have a couple more about drones. A drone launched at a ground base. Coming in from E to hit a base on E...and a Defsat on the other side of the moon. Can that Defsat see the Drone at all? Or is it blocked because a straight line between the Defsat and the ground base passes through the moon. Assuming you maintain lock-on. As another question was asking.

And last...a Drone launched at a Ground Base. Because there is no atmosphere, does the drone simply slam into the moon ground base as if it was a ship with no delay. Or does hit have to wait till impulse 1 of the following turn?

Yes this is a weird series of thoughts. But in the game we just played, using Defsats and Bombers a number of things came up.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Charles,

"Can the bombers take off and immediately fly."

Bombers/Fighters can all launch from the Bomber/fighter base on a moon with no atmosphere, skip step #2 (P2.412)

"And last...a Drone launched at a Ground Base. Because there is no atmosphere, does the drone simply slam into the moon ground base as if it was a ship with no delay. Or does hit have to wait till impulse 1 of the following turn?"

The drone will slam into the moon ground base (no delay)

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Friday, January 08, 2021 - 11:27 pm: Edit

That was our take on it. The other things...are a bit more...out there lol.

Like the moon and drones blocking idea. It seems a moon does not...like a planet exactly block lock-on. So if you have lock-on....can you shoot what would appear to be straight through the moon? Then you get into. I am on one side. Base is on the other. Can I shoot the base? Since I could have lock on. Or because the base is on the ground it is hidden by the moons surface....or is it? The idea that the moon may or may not block lock-on implies it may or may not block line of sight since that is normally what stops lock-on.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 01:57 am: Edit

Charles,

(P2.23) Small Planets and Moons, (P2.231) Units (and other objects) entering moon hex roll on Planetary Collision Chart.

(P2.232) Moons between two units have a 50% chance of breaking lock on.
Lock On (P2.3221) 50% chances breaking lock on , it cannot be re-established until the planet/moon is out of the direct line.

(P2.3222) drones/seeking weapons can loss lock on unless control can be transferred to another unit or themselves.

A moon has the hex sides still and you cannot shoot through the planet to hit a ground base on the other side.

By Charles H Carroll (Carroll) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 01:47 pm: Edit

If possible would appreciate Steve Petrick's opinion on this series of questions. Yeah its long and complicated. Sorry about that but we did have a rather intense fight lol.

Wayne

Not to hit the ground base, but to hit a drone 1 hex out from the ground base but directly on the other side. Which implies firing through the moon.

Anyway it makes things interesting. And there is the stated idea in the transporter rules which implies that you can use the Defsats on the other side of planets to establish a lock-on capable of transporting a person. Which is about the best lock-on possible in the Star Fleet Universe.

So if I could use that to transport a person. I should be able to use that to lock onto and fire at anything a Defsat on that side can see. As far as moons and maybe small planets go. Regular planets not so much...though maybe could use it to launch a drone or plasma or QWT to slingshot around a planet.

The idea of course being that unlike ships systems, Defsats are being controlled by a single ground base. Or can be. If the ground base on one side of the planet does not have its own lock-on to a drone attacking from the other side, then it should not have direct control of the Defsat on that side and any Defsat on a side out of direct line of sight of the ground base should no longer be controlled by the ground base but go to automatic.

Anyway just some thoughts and situations we ran into.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, January 09, 2021 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Charles H Carroll:

I am not sure what is being asked.

A DefSat can fire on any thing IT CAN SEE, but it has no capability of providing fire control to another unit on the other side of a planet or moon. It is not magical in that it can do something a ship cannot (a ship that can see a target cannot allow another ship that cannot see that target to fire on the target).

DefSats can serve as transporter repeaters, but so can a ship (see the example, ship A transports troops from ship B to be target C which has a shield facing ship but a down shield facing ship A).

When Operating as a transporter repeater, the DefSats have a human agency that is looking at the target. This might be repeated (looking at the feed from DefSat A which has been relayed through DefSat B), but it is not an automated system. There is a human intelligence involved to make sure the people go where they are going.

So, yes, the DefSat can fire on anything it SEES, and can be used to transport people to some location it sees that is not in sight of the original transporter. But the DefSat can only control its own weapons, it cannot take control of a weapon launched by another unit

(R1.15C) includes "Each satellite can control the seeking weapons it launches; see (F3.226)."

And (F3.226) says:

"(F3.226) Captor mines (M4.425) and defense satellites (R1.15) are treated as fighters. They can control seeking weapons they launch, but cannot accept control of a seeking weapon from another unit."

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, January 10, 2021 - 11:17 am: Edit

From the Friday January 8, 2021 10:26 pm post,

This was a follow up question/post that changed tactical situation to that of a Moon without an atmosphere with the questions re:Def Sats.

I was under the impression that DefSats were only deployed to planets, not Moons.

With regard to SPP answers, does the fact that the Def Sat is in orbit of a Moon (Rule P2.232) rather than a planet make any difference?