Archive through February 10, 2021
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Rules Questions:
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Archive through February 10, 2021
Quote:ROMULAN GENERAL UNITS: Unless otherwise noted, Romulan general units do not have cloaking devices (G13.0); the exception to this is that most (but not all) Romulan size-class-4 and larger bases do or can have cloaking devices.
Y175 Base Refits: Civilian bases will not have cloaking devices installed. (Mentioned because it is of a size class to have a cloak but is specifically prohibited.)
CLOAK COST: Only on ships which can have cloaks.
Great. Those are what I was looking for.
Where are they? What product are they in? What is their actual rule number? If they don't have a rule number, what rule number are they adjacent to?
Still need the information for the Operational Base. Specifically, the Operational Base (R1.45) and Operational Auxiliary (R1.45A) from Module R7. There is no reference to a cloak in the ship description, in the SSD for (R1.45A), nor is either unit reference in Annex #7H. How much BPV does the cloaking device for these units cost, and how much energy does it require to operate the cloaking device?
Since the Operational Base (particularly) is supposed to be a superior alternative to the Mobile Base, and since a Romulan Mobile Base can most definitely use a cloaking device, it would be pretty surprising that a Romulan Operational Base cannot use a cloaking device. That would be a pretty shocking weakness for a supposedly superior solution. If the Romulan Operational Base can use a cloaking device, then the Romulan Operational Auxiliary has to be able to use a cloaking device, since it is exactly the same thing, but with engines strapped on. Or would those engines negate the ability to use a cloak?
So, if the Operational Base (at the least) can use the cloak, what are its BPV and energy costs? If it can't use the cloak, then did Romulans even use them?
Thank you!
R1.0-4 in the Romulan MSSB.
As for R1.45, there isn't an entry in the MSSB (from .43 to .46) so that puts in a higher (SPP/SVCC) court.
Mike West:
Again: CLOAK COST: Only on ships which can have cloaks.
Just to confirm, then:
1) Those notes ONLY appear in the Romulan MSSB. Is that correct?
2) The Operational Base cannot have a cloak, but the Mobile Base can. Is that correct?
Mike
Here is a list:
| Rule Empire Type Unit Name SSD Page |
| R1.1-R4 Romulan SB Starbase R01-36 & 45 |
| R1.2-R4 Romulan BATS Battle Station R01- 46 |
| R1.3-R4 Romulan BS Base Station R01- 38 |
| R1.7A-R4 Romulan L-Q Large Q-Ship AM- 29 |
| R1.7B-R4 Romulan S-Q Small Q-Ship AM- 30 |
| R1.10-R4 Romulan FRD Fleet Repair Dock AM- 4 |
| R1.13A-R4 Romulan AxCVL Small Auxiliary Carrier J_SSD- 7/J- 7 |
| R1.13B-R4 Romulan AxCVA Large Auxiliary Carrier J_SSD- 8/J- 8 |
| R1.20-R4 Romulan F-AS - PL-F Small Plasma-Armed Freighter AM- 19 |
| R1.22-R4 Romulan Mon Monitor R01- 14 |
| R1.27A-R4 Romulan AxPFS Small Auxiliary PF Tender R01- 66 |
| R1.27B-R4 Romulan AxPFL Large Auxiliary PF Tender R01- 65 |
| R1.30-R4 Romulan SAM System Activity Maintenance Station R01- 10 |
| R1.31-R4 Romulan AxSCS Auxiliary Space Control Ship K- 4 |
| R1.35-R4 Romulan BSC Civilian Base Station C3- 79 |
| R1.75-R4 Romulan LAH Large Auxiliary Heavy Fighter Carrier R11- 5 |
| R1.76-R4 Romulan SAH Small Heavy Auxiliary Carrier R11- 6 |
| R1.77-R4 Romulan LAS Large Auxiliary Scout R11- 7 |
| R1.78-R4 Romulan SAS Small Auxiliary Scout Freighter R11- 8 |
| R1.79-R4 Romulan CCS Communications Relay Station R11- 9 |
| R1.81-R4 Romulan FRX Advanded Technology Fleet Repair Dock R11- 11 |
| R1.83-R4 Romulan LMN Light Monitor R11- 13 |
| R1.89-R4 Romulan STF Stellar Fortress R12-4 & 5 & 42 |
| R1.201-R4 Romulan SBX X-Starbase X1-22 & 23 |
| R1.202-R4 Romulan BTX X-Battle Station X1- 21 |
| R1.J1-R4 Romulan LAB Large Auxiliary Bomber Barge CL28-SSJ2 Pg- 31 |
| R1.J2-R4 Romulan HAB Heavy Auxiliary Bomber Barge CL28-SSJ2 Pg- 32 |
Mike here is a list of units with cloaking costs.
| Rule Empire Type Unit Name SSD Page | Energy Cost |
| R1.1-R4 Romulan SB Starbase R01-36 & 45 | 40 |
| R1.2-R4 Romulan BATS Battle Station R01- 46 | 12 |
| R1.3-R4 Romulan BS Base Station R01- 38 | 8 |
| R1.10-R4 Romulan FRD Fleet Repair Dock AM- 4 | 10 |
| R1.22-R4 Romulan Mon Monitor R01- 14 | 15 |
| R1.81-R4 Romulan FRX Advanded Technology Fleet Repair Dock R11- 11 | 10 |
| R1.83-R4 Romulan LMN Light Monitor R11- 13 | 12 |
| R1.89-R4 Romulan STF Stellar Fortress R12-4 & 5 & 42 | 52 |
| R1.201-R4 Romulan SBX X-Starbase X1-22 & 23 | 52 |
| R1.202-R4 Romulan BTX X-Battle Station X1- 21 | 22 |
That list only makes things worse.
First, I don't have the Romulan MSSB. It was my understanding the book is just "extra" and isn't required. But, that above list implies that the Mobile Base doesn't get a cloak. But, it's SSD is completely explicit in that it does get cloak, and it is listed in the G3A Annex #7H.
Second, at this point I just want a simple yes/no answer to my two summary questions in my prior post. But given the list above, I now need a third question.
1) Is all this cloak information only available in the MSSB? Yes/No
2) Can the Romulan Operational Base use a cloak? Yes/No
3) Can the Romulan Mobile Base use a cloak? Yes/No
Obviously, I have other questions now, but these three will at least let me figure things out. Since I don't have these lists (which the first question is to confirm), I just need to know with an absolute yes or no whether the two units can use cloak.
Thank you.
Yes the MB can have a cloak (MSSB), increases its cost by 15 BPV (Cloak cost seems 8 as the MB is SC4 base).
Cloak: Includes a cloaking device (G13.0) which increases the base's BPV by 15 points.
Ok, good I was just curious because of the chart Ken provided. I guess he just missed it. The original two questions are still there, though. Thanks for the clarification.
BTW, the energy cost of the MB cloak is 15, not 8.
To be clear, I am not trying to be a jerk. I need to know for Federation Commander. The Operational Base is something that could pop up at any point since it is much nicer and more flexible than the Mobile Base. In such a case I have to know if the Romulan version has a cloak. And if the only place to get that information is the Romulan MSSB, I need to know that, too, because I don't have it.
MB in R1 module (R1.24) +15 for BPV cost, +12 energy.
all units that have cloak have the BPV and energy cost on the SSD.
What Module is this Operation base in?
The only other bases I can find are (R1.72) module R11 civilian planetary operations base, and Module R8 sector base (R1.47)
All good found the Operation base it is in Module R7.
There is annex #7H for possible energy cost of cloak for other ships which might acquire a cloaking device (and is a general guide).
(as noted ships/units with cloak have the cost in BPV and energy on their SSD).
New question related to the above:
- The Mobile Base SSD says that it costs 12 points of energy to operate its cloaking device.
- The Annex #7H in Module G3 states it costs 15 points of energy to operate its cloaking device.
Which is correct?
(Either way, it isn't 8. And it is SC 3, not SC 4.)
Thanks!
Good question, Mike.
While (as I always say) I can't speak for ADB, Inc. on anything, I would suspect that the cost in Annex #7H in Module G3 is correct; it is a more recent print and, as such, reflects more up-to-date information.
Anyway, that's my take.
Jeff,
Just for fun, I'll take the other bet. 
I'm going to assume the 12 is correct and that G3 is a mistake where they accidentally put in the BPV cost instead of the energy cost.
Besides, irrespective of which is intended to be correct, they're gonna favor the SSD that anyone who uses the ship will look at and not the Annex no one is going to pull out. Plus, changing an SSD is way worse than a simple Annex (that, again, virtually no one looks at).
It would be interesting to see what the Annex #7H in Module R1 (which is where the Mobile Base was published) said about the Mobile Base cloak energy cost. I can't check since all of those random pages are either gone or packed away somewhere I don't remember.
R1 Module is the reference I used (it is +15 BPV, +12 energy) on the SSD.
The annex 7H chart says,
"The energy cost to operate the cloaking device of any given ship is shown on the SSD of that ship. This annex lists nominal operating costs for other ships which might acquire a cloaking device (G13.2). This annex is a general guide; analysis of specific ships may require player adjustments."
Mike West:
Operational Bases Cannot have a Cloaking Device. This was decided when the base and Operational Auxiliary were designed.
There were too many options. See (R1.45A). Cloaking Cost for an Operational Auxiliary with large freighter engines (eight Warp, two Impulse) versus the cost with large auxiliary engines (16 Warp and two impulse). Ship includes no extra pods (whether Cargo, repair). In either case it might have two power Skids (another eight points of power) and a power ducktail; (three points of power). All of this added to the 12 points of power the ship normally has (in the Operations Base Module) and the one point for the Freighter Command Module.
That gets you to a minimum of 23 points of power (two normal freighter engines, two impulse engines, a normal freighter command module, and the Base module) to a high of 42 (two auxiliary engines, two impulse engines, a normal freighter command module, the base Module, two power skids, and a power ducktail). And while a Battle Station or a Base Station or a Sector base CAN have three heavy power augmentation modules (45 points of added energy without affecting its cloak cost, the Operational Auxiliary could have two, giving it at the low end 53 points of power or the high end 72 points of power. This is not counting any power the selected pods for the Operational auxiliary might bring.
So "CLOAK COST: Only on ships which can have cloaks."
The fact that the power of this unit can vary so much is why it was impossible to provide a cloak. Any Given Operational Base could be mobilized and the cloaking device would become useless. Any cloaking devices designed for the power situation of a fully tricked out operational auxiliary would suck all the power out of the base if it was not fully tricked out. (Picture the base module deployed by itself, perhaps with Cargo Skids for extra padding, the total power is only 12 points.
It is WHY we did not include a Cloaking cost, because the unit is not standard and the Cost of a cloak would vary too much.
SPP,
Thank you for the fully fleshed out answer. I appreciate it and the explanation helps should I have to face the question.
Again, thank you.
SPP:
Were Tholian Stellar Fortresses R1.89 (and STXs) built with webcasters as standard equipment or as an option?
Thanks.
Colonel, it appears the Stellar Fortress first appeared in Y179 (per MSC in Module R12 Rulebook, pg.57).
SSD sheet with Tholian Stellar Fortress Tables (Module R12 SSD Book, pg.66) lists the following refits...
Snare Refit (Y183) =+18
Web Caster Refit (Y184) =+18
Rightly or wrongly, my interpretation is that before Y184 (obviously) there may be no Web Casters on Stellar Fortresses BUT starting at that time, there may be.
As to whether there MUST be (i.e.: "Standard" versus "Option"), there are other occasions when various refits have taken a long time before fully applied to the fleet. Given the need for Web Casters on other (read that as "More mobile and more inclined to see action in defense of the Holdfast") units, it may have been years before Web Caster production was sufficient to be able to equip things like bases close to the Dyson Sphere.
Anyway, that's my 0.02 Quatloos on it.
Greating StarFleet fountain of knowledge,
Can a Mobile Base (MBph1) have Pel Cargo Pods (Pel P-C) attach to it?
Thanks
Roch Chartrand:
A MBph-1 is not a Peladine MB, so I would think no you can not attach a Peladine P-C.
Reading Module R1 rule (R1.24A),
If you are playing the Peladine and field a Peladine MBph-2s base then I would think yes you could use a Peladine Cargo Pod.
Roch Chartrand;
Wayne Douglas Power is correct, including that Peladine Mobile Bases are equipped with phaser-2s, not phaser-1s.
Thanks,
That clearify the Pods issue. Can one of you point me toward the rule that says MB ph-2 is Peladine? My 1992 version of R1.24A do not address the Peladine MB!
Roch Chartrand:
The Peladine were published in PLAYTEST Module dubbed Module E4 in 2011. This playtest a section dedicated to all of the (then) published (R1.0) units in Peladine Service. The (R1.24-JR1) Mobile Base entry includes in the first line that they use the Phaser-2 versopm.
SPP, Could a given Federation ship that carries F-111s carry F-101s instead or would that require a "new" ship to replace the F-111s with F-101s?