Mark

Actually not. All that is occurring is the wind resistance is reduced by drafting. Which means you are not breaking trail.

In space there is no windage you are fighting against.

But if you can produce a Nascar example where without having to use any fuel a car ran faster than the others could. Sure. I will accept that analogy.

Drafting...Drifting...(Centrifugal force.) causing sideways movement are all based on how gravity interacts and windage. Not motive power for the cars. Now you can gain a lot of speed by dropping a car off a cliff. But that relies on gravity to pull the car down to the ground. It does not shove the car into space.

Anyway the issue in its purest form is in every example of movement. Where you allocate or you change speed. You base it on how many hexes you move. This becomes your speed. But it requires that you spend, or another ship spends the movement required to move you...or move you and them if a tractor exists.

Not attach a tractor and gain extra movement by slowing down which in this case gives you a higher pseudo speed. But an interesting application of physics anyway.

And last...while interesting...try finding a problem in the concept itself. That of You move...then gain a hex....then are not allowed to move next because of the hex you gained that you did not pay for. Which is the idea behind the rule which will restrict you to the speed you actually paid for without causing any problems because it is so easy to look at and see why you lost the movement.

That is the question at hand. Is there a situation where that does not work? And if so why.

By Ken Rodeghero (Ken_Rodeghero) on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Deleted by the poster as redundant and not helpful after I read up on the discussion. Fascinating stuff, though!

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Chuck, the problem is that your rule is an immediate penalty on a potential gain as it's not an actual gain until the end of the turn (or one assumes that the remainder of the turn is static).

Tractors add an interaction between two energy systems that can (if timed right) give one (or both) ships a movement boost which was paid for as both ships assisted each other when paying a combined movement cost, since that cost was paid by an outside source, it doesn't count against any of the legal limits of movement (like the famous 20-19-20 plot that give 21 hexes of movement but is still under other limits).

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 - 08:12 pm: Edit

---

Quote:

And last...while interesting...try finding a problem in the concept itself.

---

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 - 10:29 pm: Edit

Stewart I would say that is wrong, in that...the gain is obvious...immediate and is shown clearly by the Impulse Chart.

As in I am moving on impulse 21 and 23. I move on 21...ok that point is used.

I now move because of the tractor on impulse 22.

So you had a gain. As in you modified when you were going to get the movement by using the tractor. Now...at this time...you dropped tractor. Which sets the gain as permanent and makes it where you are now going to get a movement...with an extra unpaid hex already clearly there for all to see.

Your concept of the rest of the turn might in some way change this? In what way? You tractor someone again and over impulses and impulses you lose hexes? If so...that is what a tractor is supposed to do. You have scheduled a speed change? While that would change things, It has no effect on the fact you have an extra hex already.

If you move this impulse...which you will unless we use my rule suggestion, You stay up a hex the rest of the turn. There is nothing that really would change that. ED? All movement hexes become shield energy of some kind or other. So this clears the extra movement at the time you gained it. Just like...and this is the important part, you had just run what you paid for. So any attempt to claim some future something might possibly happen would have happened and you would lose hexes if this had not happened. Therefore there is no possible change.

This simply removes extra hexes, after get them and makes the hex gain simply allow you to move one hex early. Which...because it is from a tractor is exactly what the tractor should do just like it allows an earlier turn than your turn mode allows at your plotted speed.

So that is how I see it. This is an easy, simple adjustment to stop someone from getting 1 or multiple hexes you never paid movement for. It also stops the speed increase you get in the simplest way possible. While allowing you to move one hex earlier than you could. So it is still the standard Tractor benefit.

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Let me put it another way...your claim that in the future you could lose something just does not work.

Right now...at this moment. You dropped tractor. And right now you are going to take a movement. That you have not paid for. My rule suggestion stops you from moving when it was not paid for.

So...how does something in the future affect you badly? It cannot. The only thing you have from now to the end of the turn will be movements that you actually have paid for. It is as if the turn starts here again as we are back to nothing but paid for movements. No tricks. Just normal paid movements. So anything that happens should happen.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 04:29 am: Edit

"Right now...at this moment. You dropped tractor. And right now you are going to take a movement. That you have not paid for."

I am not in this discussion, but if a tractor is dropped before the delayed movement , you will not get the delayed movement.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 09:35 am: Edit

Charles,

Here is a thought experiment.

Two ships are the same size.
One ship is sub-light.

The sub-light ship wants to hitch a ride but does not want to slow down the other ship.

The speed 30 ship agrees.
Assume the sub-light ship has enough tractors and power to do this.

On impulses 3, 5, 7, 9 the sub-light ship tractors the speed 30 ship and drops the tractor the next impulse. Assume that the speed 30 ship is helping by doing its best to stay within tractor range.

The impulse chart shows that the speed 30 ship will slow down to 15 when tractored but still move.

So the speed 30 ship is happy at having not lost any movement and the sub-light ship is happy as having moved 4 times (plus the 5th movement at the end of the turn).

Clearly the sub-light ship has intent to move faster than it can. Yet, it cannot pay a "penalty" for this intent as it has no warp.

What say you?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 09:36 am: Edit

Charles wrote:
>>Right now...at this moment. You dropped tractor. And right now you are going to take a movement. That you have not paid for. My rule suggestion stops you from moving when it was not paid for.>>

Sure (well, possibly). But then, later in the turn, you might lose a move from being tractored, and then end up in a net loss of hexes (i.e. moving *less* hexes than you paid for).

Here is the thing. Your suggested rule here (as soon as you drop the tractor, if you moved an extra hex when you shouldn't have moved an extra hex, miss your next move) might be a possibly practical fix for the issue you see (although, does it take into account moves that happen when the ship you are tractored to also moves? If my speed 20 DD tractors my buddy the FF on impulse 2, drops to speed 12, and then moves on impulse 3, if the FF started at speed 30, it is also moving speed 12, so then we get a double move on impulse 3, and if we stay tractored on impulse 3, we then move again on impulse 4...). Might not; again, haven't thought about it hard enough. But it is certainly a better idea than making ships pay power when they move under tractor.

But in any case, still, your argument hasn't yet seemed that convincing that this whole thing is actually a problem that needs fixing.

Yes. If two ships are damaged and have a maximum speed of 27, they can actually move 30 hexes with tractor shenanagins. But in doing so:

1) They are using tractor power to gain those extra moves anyway. Which, unless they are CAs or bigger, is less efficient than just paying for movement.

2) They are suffering the penalties for being tractored when they are tractored.

3) They are using tractors (which, if they are missing power, they are possibly also missing tractors...).

4) They are stuck next to their buddy the whole time, as otherwise, this stops working.

In the end, again, it seems like a lot of work is happening here to try and fix a problem which isn't really a problem. I know. We have all said this already. But it bears emphasis and repeating.

If you are near enemy ships when you are doing this? The tractor use and tractor penalties will be an issue. If you are far from enemy ships when you are doing this? Probably isn't important. A lot of the time, you can just move any speed you want anyway. If you are on an open map and using this to outrun plasmas, the problem is the open map, not the tractors. If you are on a closed map and using this to outrun plasmas, the plasma ships should probably be launching plasmas from a better spot that you can't just outrun by going fast.

I mean, if there is any problem to be solved, I'd suggest solving it with the Disrupted Fire Control fix (i.e. a friendly ship in tractor suffers Disrupted Fire Control while under tractor and for 4 impulses after it is released; this is simple, easy, has likely no unseen collateral damage, and parallels the "if you tractor a friendly drone, it loses tracking" existing rule). But I'm not remotely convinced this is an actual problem. I mean, I'm not in charge of anything, and it doesn't matter if I'm convinced or not (I'm not the one you need to convince). But if you aren't convincing me, it is unlikely you are convincing the people you *do* need to convince.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 09:38 am: Edit

John wrote:
>>On impulses 3, 5, 7, 9 the sub-light ship tractors the speed 30 ship and drops the tractor the next impulse.>>

Not that it is likely super relevant to your overall point, but you can't do that.

If you voluntarily drop tractor on a ship, you can't re-tractor it for 8 impulses.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 09:46 am: Edit

Peanut gallery observation: how would this rule handle a complex multi-ship tractored combo, with individual links being made and dropped while at least one ship remains linked to at least one other ship (if not multiples) for an extended set of impulses?

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 10:49 am: Edit

Alex,
I expect you could fight a duel,
faster than you could do the math on that one....

By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 11:00 am: Edit

You could probably come up with a really complicated rule that calculated the psuodo-speed based on your remaining movement for the rest of the turn.

I.E. A ship has paid for 24 move, it has 12 left, it is tractored to a ship with half the movement cost, it moves at the slowest speed that moves 8 more times (12/1.5). If the tractor drops when it's used 3 of those moves, it moves at the fastest legal speed that would cover 7 more hexes, or 8 if it pays for the extra half hex (5 remaining times 1.5).

Of course, you have to completely recalculate all of this any time the ship reaches a mid-turn speed change point.

Let's not do that.

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Going to be giving short responses to some things.

Peter

There is no possible effect anything in the future could have caused by this. That is the point. This does absolutely nothing really. All it does...is take the hex that was gained. And use it an impulse earlier than the hex that was paid for. So you spent it, it's gone. And you do not get it again. I have repeatedly told you why the tractor penalties at this moment in time are not a factor. If they are. Do not try to gain a hex. Simple. This is purely done to gain a movement unpaid by movement energy and avoiding the speed change rules.

Wayne

You never drop tractor before you get the move. Which is the point. But once you got the delayed move or just gained a hex of movement. Then you drop the tractor to get your next move which causes you to have gained an extra hex of movement for the entire turn. Paid to move 20 and move 21. Rinse repeat and paid to move 20 now move up to 24. So gained 4 moves.

Next comment is going to join John's and Alex's ideas lol.

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 12:09 pm: Edit

There's always forcing "Pre-plotted Movement" into your games.....

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 12:20 pm: Edit

Douglas, "You could probably come up with a really complicated rule that calculated the psuodo-speed based on your remaining movement for the rest of the turn."

You are starting to cut to the heart of this, and every other massaging of the impulse chart to "violate" other rules: the shuttle that moves 7 hexes a turn via speed changes, the ship that is acceleration limited to a practical speed of 20 using the 19/20 split to move 21 hexes, etc: it's that these do not violate the rules as written even if they seem to violate the spirit of a specific rule here or there.

This is because the impulse chart is itself an abstraction of the fact that ships are moving continuously over the turn, even on hexes they are not scheduled to move they are just moving a fractional hex. You can actually completely build the impulse chart yourself (and I expect this is how it was built in the first place) by assuming that a moving unit moves X/32nds of a hex every impulse, where X is a given practical speed maintained over the entire turn. Starting at impulse 1 and a running total of 0, you add X/32 every impulse. When the running total results in 32/32 or higher, you mark that impulse as "this speed moves", deduct 32/32 from the total, and keep on going.

Repeat this for every speed from 1 to 32, and viola, you have the impulse chart!

Every speed change and practical/pseudo speed trick arises from the fact that this accounting of fractional continuous movement has been done for each listed speed already, so when a unit changes practical speed or becomes subject to a pseudo speed, it's actual fractional count at that moment versus what the new accumulation is doesn't matter - it's just what the impulse chart says and that can result in it moving in hexes in doesn't seem it should be able too (hello 7 hex shuttle). And while that's the obviously advantageous use, it can also just as easily be used to cancel a desired move - after all, if "flicking" a tractor beam between two fast moving units for just one impulse shouldn't result in an additional hex of movement if it's timed exactly right, why should it result in a lost hex of movement if timed exactly right?

You could, of course, eliminate ALL such artifacts by dispensing with the impulse chart entirely and keeping track of the accumulated movement sub-points (the X/32's above), as an impulse by impulse running total for every unit on the map based on its practical speed or, if in tractor, its pseudo speed. When a given unit accumulates 32 or more such sub-points it becomes scheduled to move that impulse per Order of Precedence and its movement sub-points total is reduced by 32.

This means no tractor shenanigans of the specific sort Charles lost to. It means no admin shuttles flying 7 hexes a turn on their own. It means no tractor tricks to create artificial "stalls" in movement. Or anything else that is a result of "gaming" the impulse chart.

How practical this would be in play (especially, say, for a mid-General War carrier-based fleet action between drone-using empires) is left as an exercise for the reader. As is why would it make sense to seek to eliminate one specific gaming of the chart but not any others.

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 12:33 pm: Edit

And now the truly interesting concept.

John made a comment that has no real value in that a speed 30 ship cannot turn fast enough to stay with a sublight and not lose speed. Because he cannot retractor for 8 Imp. Most gained would be 2. As the sublight could tractor the speed 30 also.

Then we have Alex asking about what if a fleet does nothing but move a ship over and over again using every ship in the fleet or a number of ships in the fleet.

And this while it does not even measure up to anecdotal evidence it being a hypothesis...does bring an idea to mind.

Using a lot of math. And also without doing any math. I feel...that this could...as the rules stand now. And...even with my rule adjustment. Be used to race a very slow large ship across a map.

Here is my take on this. A B10...is running at say 10. It has a number of Tractors. It has a fleet of 10 ships. If someone with one hell of a lot of time on their hands, were to calculate the speed breaks caused by tractoring a B10 with assorted smaller ships. And came up with every possible time a ship would be able to tractor the B10 and the smaller ship would be the one moving during the tractor impulse. This could potentially invalidate or make my rule adjustment unable to take any movement from the B10 since the B10 would never move on its own.

Here is what I mean...without verifying this with the impulse chart. All ships are running somewhere between speed 25 and speed 31. All have power applied to tractors or batteries. Enough to trac out to range 3.

Every impulse a ship tractors the B10. This will cause the tracoring ship to have its speed reduced by at least 2/3s So somewhere around 10 or less. This fails until impulse 4....when 10 becomes possible. It also fails on 9 and 20, 30 and 31 where nothing is available at 10 or less.

But...with careful calculations the rest of the impulses could potentially all move the B10. Using my rule adjustment the B10 would never move after impulse 4 when it was not tractored because it moved.

The rest of the impulses would give the B10 the potential to be tractored and moved 23 times. So it would have an effective speed of 24. As every impulse a ship drops tractor and another new ship grabs the B10.

The main reason the B10 was moving at all so when all this racing is done he has a last turn of speed 10 so can go up to speed 20. And have a fairly decent move potential.

Anyway I find this concept interesting anyway.

And since the B10 never gained a Hex of movement and then moved using his own power, he does not lose any movement. He may be schedules to move that impulse also. But...that is where all the math comes in to make sure the ship that tractored him moves the impulse he lost any movement. And so...he keeps racing across the map.

Now obviously this would require a lot of math. And it would require every ship staying within 3. And tractoring and dropping every impulse. And and and and...lots of fun stuff. But Maybe we could do B10 racing hehe.

Anyway this is just one of the issues caused by tractoring to gain speed. Turning a B10 a speed demon. While allowing it to have all the power it should have spent on movement funneled into weapons and reinforcement and all sorts of other things.

But anyway certainly this could potentially, change something with my rule suggestion. Be sure to work out the math and find a valid example of how this does not work Alex and get back to me.

I am not required to prove your hypothesis. But man this lead to what I think is a cool idea lol.

B 10 Racing...step right up ladies and Gentlemen. Red and Blue Team working together are going to bring you the finest race involving B 10s the Galaxy has ever seen. So keep the line moving and every have a great day!!!!!

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 - 07:11 pm: Edit

CC: I suggest that you try to get your opponents to use this rule. If they accept it, you can see whether it works, and you can use it in your group and be happy. The rest of us can use it or not, as we desire. It doesn't take the Steves to change the rulebook, as it won't affect anything official like a tournament anyway because you need multiple ships.

(though actually, I was never clear on whether your rule applied when tractoring an enemy ship. But you and your opponents can worry about that yourselves)

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, February 18, 2021 - 11:32 am: Edit

Peter,

"If you voluntarily drop tractor on a ship, you can't re-tractor it for 8 impulses."

Thanks for the tractor rules clarification.

So... The sub-light ship would have to tractor once and the speed 30 ship would have to tractor once. This would allow the sub-light ship to gain 2 warp movements without slowing down the speed 30 ship.

My example was to show intent and ask the question: how does the sub-light ship pay the "penalty" for warp movement?

My poorly written example was to refute Charles' "penalty solution".

Anyway, I am content that the "pushing/pulling" of well timed tractor application will result in extra movements. It is an artifact of two ship warp/tractor interaction under specific circumstances.

The warp theory scientists know of this effect, but cannot explain it. Never-the-less, they accept it because it has been observed!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, February 18, 2021 - 01:11 pm: Edit

John wrote:
>>"If you voluntarily drop tractor on a ship, you can't re-tractor it for 8 impulses."

Thanks for the tractor rules clarification.>>

Yep; that is an important one here, and one of the reasons it is difficult to really take advantage of the shenanagins that Charles is talking about.

My standard (in this discussion) DD and FF are next to each other, both speed 20. The DD can tractor the FF to drop to speed 12 (and the FF to speed 7) to move on an impulse when speed 20 doesn't (3, 11, 14, 19, 22, 27, 30, so they certainly got options; there are only 2 impulses when both 7 and 12 move for the extra burst, those being 14 and 19) and then immediately drop the tractor to gain an extra boost hex. Meanwhile, the FF can tractor the DD the next time inside of 8 impulse to do it twice. But then they are without shenanagins for 8 impulses. And the FF is probably out of tractors to use (and the DD might also be out of tractors to use).

In the end, both the DD and FF are probably better off just going faster in the first place. And yes, it is true that sometimes they *can't* go faster due to speed limits and/or damage. But in the end, the results are about the same.

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Thursday, February 18, 2021 - 01:18 pm: Edit

John

I believe your suggestion is pretty good. But wont work anyway.

Here is why. A speed 31 ship...grabs a sublight ship. Moved one hex and while now at speed 15. And then drops tractor. The sublight then grabs the Speed 31. Which slows to 15...and does not move the next impulse which it should. So it would pay the cost to drag itself and the shuttle.

Now if...the shuttle did not tractor it until a time when it tractored it, the ship moving at 31 would now slow to a speed that moves at half speed. As in at 15. Then yes. This would created the sublight having moved 2 hexes and paid nothing. Other than both ships paid some form of energy for the two tractors.

It would though cause the sublight, if moving at speed 1 to not get the move on impulse 32. But even so it effectively gained a none movement paid hex of movement even using my rule.

And assuming your read my B10 racing idea. You could move any ship this way with a large enough fleet and rampage across a map. But then you can do that right now without my rule.

So my rule stops almost all ways to do this for almost all situations. But it is nice to see an actual way it would not work as intended.

Now as Jim mentions...which is exactly what I have said about Single ship combats, which is why almost no one sees this happening and even those who do multiship combats would have to invest a fair amount of time and/or effort into figuring out when and how to use this effectively so most do not bother.

Add in the limited times it is really useful to do this, such as outrunning seeking weapons and offensively to gain more speed than you can legally move from movement energy and the other pretty useful idea of using it to close to overload range without changing speed. Picking up two hexes...as in should move two hexes in 4 impulses but now move 4 hexes in 4 impulses should be something everyone would like to be able to do.

So do we have some overwhelming need to change this? Will the Steves appear and hand down a verdict from on high? Who knows. But this has been an attempt to present what may not be 100% effective at this time without a slight modification...to clearing up a rule that has obviously over time been constantly brought up and back up as people realize what can be done.

But unless you are around someone who does this, as in took the time to work out the benefits and actually uses it, no one cares because it does not affect them at this moment.

Anyway this has been fun. Personally, while I believe this has the potential to hurt all Seeking weapon races and Torp users in particular, Since I see the benefits, I will be doing this a lot and my abilities will be improved. Or we could get a ruling saying we need to stop doing this. And then we will have to rely on the normal way of killing each other.

I am good either way. I do think it should be fixed but understand people not feeling like it matters.

Anyway thanks for a great discussion. I will just wait and see if anything develops.

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Thursday, February 18, 2021 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Just for info Peter

This normally happens from what has been happening to me...and in games I watch at a fast speed. Such as 20 or above.

Now this makes a pretty sizable difference when you are moving 20. And move. Do not move. Move move, Do not move.Move move. So in 7 impulses you move 5 times. Using this. You can move all 7 straight as if you were moving speed 32.

Add in that you still are only going 20. And now while moving speed 32 you can turn as if you are going 10. It changes things pretty dramatically once you get the actual usage down.

Just what really happens vs the mostly non useful way you seem to think it happens. Most DDs and CWs can turn at speed 10 after 2. If...as you say...just run speed 31 for 8 impulses....turn? Not today. But at speed 32 actual...but showing speed 10...They could turn twice even if they had just turned. Turn on the impuls you move before. So you have gone 1. Now move then turn. Now move then turn. So change 180 effectively in 5 impulses. There are so many ways this can be used at high speeds to change things.

I am obviously running away...so you fire. Oops...without a Het...using only 2 points of power...I come around 180 over 7 impulses.

Like I have said. Until someone does this to you, it is not really as obvious what it all means. And then you being very intelligent spend time coming up with more ways to game the system. Just as I have done. But I think this is bad over all. Mostly because of the warp restrictions it just ignores and the increased speed it creates while still allowing the slower...Speed turning rate while running actually faster.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Thursday, February 18, 2021 - 04:42 pm: Edit

To resurrect John Stiff's example: A Fed CVS (MC1, 4 tractors) is going speed 8. It gets its first move and tractors a (captured, crippled, powerless) Warbird. They're now going 4. They move; the tractor is dropped. CVS is going 8, and moves. Tractor again, speed 4, move, drop, 8, move, tractor, 4, move, drop, 8, move, trac, 4, move.

At the end of the turn the CVS paid 8 movement and moved 8. The WB paid 0 and moved 4.

I suspect that if there were two CAs going about 8 with some speed changes, they could continue this indefinitely, pulling the WB along at 8 hexes/turn. With some shenanigans and enough tractors, I imagine that n CAs could manage speed 4n.

But all that jiggery-pokery aside, they are paying 1 point of tractor power for each extra hex the WB moves. And as Rotation achieves the same thing, I for one have no issue with this.

Of course a pair of DNs can get better than 1:1 movement efficiency like this, but a) 2 DNs won't appear in an S8 battle group and b) they can do it with impulse anyway.

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Thursday, February 18, 2021 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Jim lol see B10 Racing.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, February 19, 2021 - 08:33 am: Edit

Charles wrote:
>>Just what really happens vs the mostly non useful way you seem to think it happens.>>

I don't think this happens in a "non useful way". I think it happens in a way that is occasionally useful, occasionally very useful, and occasionally not particularly useful. Like everything else. All while being less energy efficient than just moving faster, having more overhead and restrictions than just moving faster, and sometimes 'causing significant problems due to firing restrictions and/or movement precedence which you would not have if you were just moving faster in the first place.

This is, once again, not an issue of this not being obvious what it all means. What it all means is very clear and very straight forward. Yes. Once in a while, being able to make a tight turn due to tractors could be very helpful. As could moving extra hexes that you wouldn't move otherwise. As could pausing and slowing down when you would be barreling forward. These are things that can certainly be very useful occasionally.

But the thing that is *more* useful, more often? Just moving faster in the first place. And has fewer restrictions, and fewer risks, and fewer downsides.

Yes. You can squeeze a few extra moves out and make a tighter turn by complicated tractor shenanagins that, occasionally, will seem super useful. But then again, the lower movement precedence, restrictions on firing, using of your generally limited number of tractors that often you want for other things, and lower energy efficiency (over, well, just moving faster) will often make it seem not that useful.