Archive through March 05, 2021
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Rules Questions:
SFB Rules Q&A:
Archive through March 05, 2021
Hi Charles,
The work on the F&E counters extended into next week so the question on mines is still pending.
Jay
Thanks. Jay...it seems straight forward...but...that depends on the stated elsewhere idea of ships entering in a line...as in having an order. If they enter all at the same instant. Then no matter what....each mine would have a chance to see each ship and that ship would be a random determination as to if the mine went off or not just as if there was no skip.
Anyway interesting question.
Alex I will just say this. What I am describing if you had the desire...can be simply checked by spending a few minutes. looking at the impulse chart...and considering the speeds of say the speed 20 ship and how easy it would be if you tractored it..to achieve this same affect. How hard would that be to do? Do you need a large group to do it so somehow it becomes more real?
This is not about the idea that the people you play with fail to do this. But the idea that since it is reasonable and possible they could start doing this.
Anyway...Peter was nice enough to start a discussion up...in a different location so I will move this over there. But putting this simply. There will never be a need to have a study done. You can do this easily as I did. It is not isolated or undoable...like oh oh oh...I saw a UFO. And you say prove it. I say the math is right here...do it yourself. Anyone can. That is why Science and math exist. Anyone can repeat it without needing anything else.
Quote:Alex this is about the 10th Game that this has happened in involving just me. Not counting another dozen I have seen where it happened.
And thus, you and others are in games where this seems to continually happen...
Yet, you manage to put yourself behind your opponent over and over, where they can take advantage of it.....
When can you fire phasers after a breakdown?
thank you
seth
Tumbling ends at the end of the Post Breakdown Period, which is eight impulses. The Post Breakdown Period last eight impulses whether the ship tumbles or not. There is no rule extending the period of weapons being unable to fire, only that they cannot be fired while the ship is tumbling, or in any case for the quarter turn post breakdown period.
(C6.541) says the post-breakdown period last for 16 impulses.
(C6.547) says no weapons may be fired in the 8 impulses following a breakdown.
(C6.551) says the ship tumbles for the duration of the post-breakdown period, so 16 impulses.
(C6.552) says ships that are tumbling cannot fire weapons.
So my reading is that after a regular breakdown you are limited to not firing for 8 impulses and it is 16 impulses if you tumble.
Steve, can you check that you have the right duration for the post-breakdown period from (C6.541) and (C6.5412).
Dana Madsen:
You are correct, I missed the post breakdown period lasting 16 impulses, I must have read it and forgotten as I looked at the rule before replying. Mea Culpa.
Question regarding Tholian Early Years merchant ships:
Per (YR1.0-7) the Tholians used captured Klingon merchant ships almost exclusively in the Early Years. Did such ships have the "web pass" ability?
Per (G10.531) captured ships do not have this ability though it lists an exception for the TK5 (but that was a hybrid design).
Rules summary: Tumbling sucks.
The Prospecting Charge's hit rate depends on the target's speed, but E19 says nothing about orbits. Is an orbiting base considered speed 0 or 1? P8.22 implies 1.
As I said in the discussion topic, an orbiting base with positional stabilizers is considered to be moving at Speed 1 for purposes of triggering mines.
SPP:
A question about S8.3 Deployment patterns.
(S8.311) says that some carriers don't have escorts and can be deployed as such.
(S8.315) says that flexible carrier groups can be created and that carriers can be escorted based on their classifications.
So, if using S8.315, does that mean that the single ship carriers now MUST be escorted, such as the survey carriers? Or do they simply have the option to be escorted?
Single ship carriers CAN be escorted, but do not REQUIRE escorts. A CVS must be escorted and can have a larger escort than listed, a Federation CVL (GSC acting as a light carrier) CAN be escorted, but it not required to be escorted.
Thank you SPP!
I have a question regarding the interaction between S8.311, S8.315 and the ship descrption in the R section.
Does the use of Flexible carrier group (S8.315) makes the rule S8.311 or the R section of the ship description invalid.
In other words, does the use of S8.315 makes it mandatory to have escorts even if the ship description specifies that it never had any escorts or that it could operate with or without escorts.
Under S8.315:
Superhawk-A/K list the ship as a true carrier and that it never had escorts. Under S8.315, does it requires escorts or S8.311 still apply and it can be flown without escorts?
Federation CVL list the ship as a true carrier and it is listed as the option of having escorts or to have no escorts. Under S8.315, does the CVL MUST have escorts or S8.311 still apply had could be flown without escorts?
Does the same fact appplies to BB's since they are all true carriers but the ship description specifies that they dont have escorts? Does S8.315 applies to them and do they require escorts as per S8.315 or S8.311 applies to them?
For ships that are true carriers and where their ship description in the R section list them as having no escorts OR list then as having escorts with the option to have no escorts, do those ships under the flexible carrier group rule (S8.315) are now required to have escorts? Does S8.315 superseed S8.311 or the R section description?
Marcel
Good question, Marcel.
I can't speak specifically for ADB, Inc. (as I always say 
), but if I were called on to make a Judge's Ruling, I would say that the rules in section (S8) are "General" rules that (most likely) predate the updated Ship Descriptions that list all the escorts normally assigned.
Basically, the new boxes in the "R" sections say what escorts (IF ANY) are normally assigned to a ship that operates fighters, and I would, were I to have to make a ruling, insist on those being followed over the "S" rules.
Anyhow, that's my 0.02 Quatloos worth; not an official ADB, Inc. ruling.
Marcel Trahan:
Any carrier which in its ship description says it regularly operated without escorts can appear without escorts, thus operates under EITHER (S8.311) "Some carriers are listed as having no escorts and may operate as such."
or you can provide it escorts and if you decide to have escorts for a Federation CVL, then the operable rule under (S8.315) is "Size class 3 carriers must have two escorts and can have three." But you do not have to do this and can have the CVL operate with no escorts.
Rule (S8.311) and (S8.315) are meant to operate together. Neither overrules the other or cancels the other.
Thanks Steve for the answer regarding escorts,
Just for additional information, if a ship description says NONE as escorts (It never had escorts assign to it), can you provide it with escorts under S8.315 or it MUST be used without escort (ie: SUP-A/K, FHK, Battleships, some PV's, Auxiliary carriers, etc)?
Marcel
Hi Steve,
Did you get an answer from S. Cole for the additional cloak cost if you extended a cloak to a docked unit under C13.949 where the cloak cost of those units are not listed in annex 7H?
Some of the unlisted units are all freighters and their variants, all FT and their variants, Commecial Platform, SAM, other general units, etc.
Until values are published for the unlisted units, what is the energy cost that is used?
Marcel
In answer to Marcel Trahan's question first asked on 8 Feb,
Annex #7H itself says
""This anne is a general guide; analysis of of specific ships may require player adjustments."
In short, there is no complete list of all cloaking device costs for specific units such as freighters and commercial platforms.
I think the intent of the annex is that if you were to try to cloak a small freighter, you would start with the fact that it is given as size class 4, Then you would disregard those units that clearly do not apply (X-ships) and look at he ones that cover that size class (DDs,DWs, FFs, Escorts, police ships) and do a comparable analysis of the ship (a small unarmed freighter would be roughly a police ships which costs of 5/2 to cloak), but the Small Freighter clearly should cost less than 5 (it only has five points of power), so perhaps you would reduce its cost (perhaps 3/2), but note that Size class 4 units have an absolute cost of 2 if they have shut down their warp engines so you cannot reduce the 2). Note that "Small freighter covers a host of "sins," so you cannot use that cost for every variant of a small freighter (Auxiliary Cruiser would cost more, perhaps just frigate (6/2). Every ship would have to be looked at.
Bases would do the same thing. But you will compare a Commercial Platform to bases on the chart and notice that bases do not have warp engines and so pay a much reduced cloaking cost. A Commercial platform is size class 4 (like a Base Station), but would obviously have a lesser cloaking cost that that, probably 4/2, or maybe 5/2, but 2 is paramount if it is shut down (size class 4).
Douglas Saldana asked on Monday, February 15, 2021: Question regarding Tholian Early Years merchant ships:
Per (YR1.0-7) the Tholians used captured Klingon merchant ships almost exclusively in the Early Years. Did such ships have the "web pass" ability?
Per (G10.531) captured ships do not have this ability though it lists an exception for the TK5 (but that was a hybrid design).
ANSWER: Nope. Rule (G10.531) is pretty clear on this. It is part of the issue that generic units are not really generic. So a Tholian Built Freighter is different from a Klingon built (or Federation built or etc.) freighter. These are "Captured units" even if they were not captured in the scenario where they appear (a convoy of Tholian freighters running towards a base in the early years that are all captured freighters, or perhaps one or two are Tholian built so that then can beam off the crews of the ones that are not).
SPP, minor point, but the base station [both military (R1.3) and civilian (R1.35)] are SC3 [as is the MB (R1.24). The SC4s are the CPL (R1.29), SAMS (R1.50), and CCS (R1.79).
What I get for having the annexes in front of me and relying on an old (and apparently faulty) memory about the size class of base stations.
Question about Death Bolts.
A death bolt set to burst at range 2.
Gets to range 2. Hits a mine and is destroyed? Or hits an ESG.
It will commit to fire during the Damage During Movement Stage
(6A3) at the same time as a Swordfish drone, but will resolve
its fire during the Direct Fire Weapons Fire Stage (6D2) of the
Sequence of Play.
So...does the fire happen...since it commits...or is that simply saying when it gets to the fire phase it fires like a normal weapon at that point? So did the mine or ESG kill it before Direct fire phase and so it is dead. Or did the fire go off but is just considered to be fired at the direct fire phase but effectively went off during movement so still goes off?
And if it actually went off during the movement phase...can a player change his ECM during fire to affect it?
I am assuming it dies if it is blown up by anything without firing. But if it fires it could have ECM shifted at time of direct fire phase as all direct fire weapons can have done to them. But this has announced it is firing which seems to be questionable?
Or does it actually announce or just commits without announcement?