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	Archive through September 02, 2021	25		09/06 12:38am

If that were possible in the star fleet universe, the Paravians would have done it to the Gorns, the romulans to the Orions, the Kzintis to the Klingons, the Hydrans to the Lyrans.

So it's not possible.
Not in SFU.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Friday, September 03, 2021 - 01:39 am: Edit

Understood.

Forget I even mentioned it.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, September 03, 2021 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Douglas Saldana:

Again, the Seltorians have a lot of eggs stored and can hatch them at need. Note for example how quickly they established their industrial colony in the Milky Way with just he Hive ship "Burning Torch of Vengeance" and its few accompanying warships.

I think the thing to do is check what we have of Seltorian background. Can the Seltorians influence the eggs? Produce more males for example in a given clutch. Males not used for breeding (I remember this much) become Sages, and if a given queen can control (or be induced to select) the gender of the "children" the number of Sages is not a problem I will, however, grant you there would not be as many experts. I seem to recall that experts were simply random chance, so their numbers are always going to be small. but they seemed less a part of the Tholians plan for the Seltorians than a random chance thing, so the presence or absence of them is not critical.

By Charles Gray (Cgray45) on Sunday, September 05, 2021 - 09:16 pm: Edit

There's also a factor as to whether or not the Seltorians have any interest in expanding their numbers, save when there is a need for them.

If not, then the theoretical seltorian successor state to the Tholians might not be "that" large, but have immense numbers of reserves, both in terms of ships and eggs ready for hatching. We don't know unfortunately what desires they have beyhond overthrowing the Tholians--the only hints we get are A. there were some who argued for negotiations with the Tholians, and it's also mentioned that the hive ship expeditions might have been a pressure valve mechanism for the most fanatical members of the Will and that their support varied over time.

So what the main body of Seltorian society is doing in the "present" really is up in the air. With an entire galaxy (albeit small) under their control, the hive expeditions could actually reflect a tiny, tiny number of hardliners...

Or there could be endless legions preparing to come to the Milky Way.


Now on another subject--presuming the Andromedans sent forces to the M81 galaxy, how would the Seltorian's do against them?

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Monday, September 06, 2021 - 12:38 am: Edit

In regards to the gender ratio:

The background on the website states that males are "few" and that most Seltorians are female workers.

This would't make much sense if the Seltorians are capable of manipulating the gender ratio since males are more useful. Female workers only live for five years but males who never mate are described as "nearly immortal".

I would rather have a nearly immortal workforce of Sages than a female workforce which has to be replaced every five years. Think of the differences in accumulated skill and experience as well as the constant burden of training replacements for the short-lived females.

This suggests that there must be some constraint that prevents the Seltorians from altering the gender ratio in favor of males.

Or perhaps the Seltorians favor hatching males in peacetime when they are producing a surplus of eggs and can afford to be selective about which gender to hatch. This leaves them with a huge reserve of predominately female eggs to tap into in wartime when hatching additional males offers no advantage (since it will take years for the newborn males to surpass their female siblings in experience).

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, September 06, 2021 - 09:11 am: Edit

I can think of a number of ways to have lower #s of males. Not least the way it happens with turtles.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK9989/#:~:text=While%20the%20sex%20of%20most,by%20the%20environment%20after%20fertilization.&text=If%20eggs%20are%20incubated%20below,from%20them%20will%20be%20male.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, September 06, 2021 - 11:14 am: Edit

Another aspect of Seltorian gender ratios is the queens; they and they alone can produce eggs. Among bees and ants here on Earth, colonies have to reach a certain level of maturity before queen bees and queen ants produce either male or princess (for lack of a better term) eggs. In theory, it could be similar for Seltorians; queens need to reach a certain age before they can produce new queens.

With ants and bees, the queen only mates once in her life, but with termites, there's usually a single male consort who stays with a queen to fertilize the eggs.

I might also speculate that, with the rare gene among worker Seltorians that produces a potential "Expert," there may be a specific caste system that was either natural or deliberately genetically engineered within them that will limit the ability for queens to produce new queens.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Monday, September 06, 2021 - 03:05 pm: Edit

I don't think the number of Seltorian queens would have much of an impact on the gender ratio since there probably aren't very many of them given that a single queen can lay "millions" of eggs. Social insects produce many reproductives (prior to mating) because most will fall vicitim to predators or fail to find a suitable colony site. This would not be a problem for a technologically advanced society like the Seltorians so they would have little need to produce queens in large numbers.

I would point out that with ants, bees and wasps males are produced from unfertilized eggs (getting chromosomes only from their mother) while females are produced from fertilized eggs. The difference between a queen and a worker is usually just a matter of being fed a better diet during the larval stage.

Termites are an interesting case because not only do they have "kings" as well as queens (forming monogamous couples) but the workers are mixed sex as well (soldiers are often single sex but can be either male or female depending on the species). Termites also hatch as nymphs (little adults) while ants, bees, and wasps go through a larval (grub) stage and have to undergo metamorphosis in a coccoon or cell. Termites evolved from cockroaches while ants, bees, and social wasps evolved from a common wasp ancestor.

So do the Seltorians take more after Termites or the Ants and their allies?