(I'm in a recently salvaged Hydran :-)

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Tuesday, April 20, 2021 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Get the Gorn while he is flying drunk in a Hydran!

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Tuesday, April 20, 2021 - 06:19 pm: Edit

I have been studying the Netkill reports. There are a bunch of flavors there but if you start with the first one which is basically all games ever, all players ever - there are 1,363 games reported where the Fed TC was played. The report breaks down the matches by ship. The Fed TC across all those games has a winning record or equal record against only 3 ships (LDR, ATC, Neo). The LDR is the only ship where the Fed seems to have a significant advantage.

What is somewhat surprising to me is how bad the record is against most of the rest of the ships. It's not just that the Fed TC lost a few more games. It lost many more games then it won against almost all ships. It ranks 14th out of 18 with a record of 544-819 (40% win rate). That does not look balanced to me. It's worse then that though honestly. The reason I say that is it's record against the ships actually being played often now is even worse.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, April 20, 2021 - 08:53 pm: Edit

R2 bakija (HYD) over romwe (Fast Fed)

T1: I move 15/28, roll both HBs, arm 2 standard fusions, have 2 in tractors, and hold 2 suicide shuttles. Fed moves 16/28, I see 2 overloaded photons. We assumed he got the 2 energy per tube to OL the photons (as that is apparently just a regular, non tournament rule).

Impulse 1, I launch the fighters. Impulse 2, I tractor them. We just go forward. Mid turn, we both speed up and close a little more. The Fed turns across my bow. We get to R6, my #1 facing his #2, he is a little to my left. We don't shoot. Next impulse (i26), he goes forward, I go forward, we end up at R4, not quite on my centerline. I drop the tractors on the fighters. I shoot him with 6x fusions (2 from ship and 4 from fighters), 5xP1, OL HB (off battery), STD HB. He fires back with 2xOL, 2xP1 at my ship, 2xP1 at each fighter; he holds his third photon (which I don't think was fully overloaded, and he wanted to save it for next turn). I roll mediocre with the phasers and fusions, but hit with both HBs. He hits with 1/2 OL photons, cripples one fighter, not quite cripples the other. I find a 10 point brick on his #2, and do 4 internals (g-rack, 3 fluff). He does 25 to my #1, leaving it at 5 boxes. Next impulse, he turns off, I turn off in the other direction. We move a couple more impulses and end the turn at R8 facing in mostly opposite directions.

T2: I move 14/26, rearm my phasers, start rearming both HBs (hopeful!), recharge my batteries, put a point in tractors, give up one SS, holding the other. Fed moves 17 all turn and rearms his phasers and photons some (finishing the 3rd as a full OL).

We start with me facing F, him facing B, R8. He turns A pretty soon. I turn A right after that. I get to R1 of my uncrippled (with 6 damage) fighter, tractor and land it, start reloading 2 fusion charges and repairing a point of damage on impulse 7. He slips towards me, I kinda slip away a bit to keep him off my weak #1. We close on the north map wall. I speed up to 26 mid turn, he does not change speed. We get to R2, My #2 facing his #6. Nothing happens. The next impulse we both move. He slips in, so I slip in, putting us at R0, my #2 to his #6. I launch 2 shuttles, he launches 1 shuttle. We both fire--I have 2 fusions (off of batteries), 5xP1, 2xP3 from the gat at him and 2xgat P3 at his shuttle, he has OL photon, 3xP1 at me, 3xP3 and a P1 as P3 at my shuttles. All shuttles are auto killed; one of mine was the suicide, his was not. I roll 1, 6 on the fusions for 21 damage, and then do 40 (?!?!?) damage with my 5xP1s, 8 with the P3s. With the 4 points of feedback from the photon, he takes 37 in, losing a photon, 2xP3, and a bunch of power and fluff. I take 7 in through my full #2, losing 3xP1 and a fusion. Next impulse, no one moves, so I get hit by 2 more P1s in for 16 more internals when he rolls well, hitting another P1 and one of the HBs. He turns off, I turn to follow, getting my other side gatling into his down #2 in another impulse for 14 more internals, hitting a second photon. We end the turn at R2, my full #5 facing his full #1.

T3: I have way more power than the Fed does (something like I have 35 and he has 24 at this point). I plot speed 0 till impulse 3 with 2 TACs, speed 8 for a while, speed 4 till the end of the turn; overload both cooled fusions, my HB, rearm my P1 and 2xGats, recharge my batteries, put a little reinforcement on my #5, a point in tractor, just in case. Fed is speed 0.

Impulse 1, I launch 2 shuttles and he just blasts me with OL photon, 5xP1 (he still has all of his P1's) and a P3. Photon hits, phasers do fine, I use 5 batteries to have a total of 7 reinforcement, take 11 in, losing my P1 (which I fired back for 4 on his #1) and my facing gat (which was unfired), but the HB survives. Impulse 2, I TAC to face him, fire the OL HB, which hits, doing 17 in (2 down shields), mostly mangling him. He is out of photons, down to 5xP1, and little power. He still has 2 unfired P1s for the turn, but I have 2xOL fusions, a gatling, 2 shuttles on the map, and a fighter that will launch soon with 2 fusion charges and 4 damage, and I speed up to 8 in a couple impulses, so Brian throws out the white flag.

I lucked out on hitting with all 3xHBs (2 at R4, 1 at R2), and didn't lose my second HB on the last volley of internals he did. He missed wiht 1/2 photons at R4 on our first pass, which if it hit, probably makes a lot of difference. Him holding the second photon on T1 was probably a wash, as it hit on T2 and ended up helping kill a HB anyway.

Good game!

Now I got this Fast Fed thing to use. Yeesh.

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 06:49 am: Edit

The Fed is the Fed Jack! I have been playing it many times over the years, mainly because I like the Feds but also so I lose quick and don't have to give other players the trouble of finding time to play me on GMT time. I cannot see how the Fed situation can be made better without overpowering it! If you adjust it in anyway other than the G rack it becomes over powered! My advice don't play it in tourney. It does much better in normal SFB or fleet actions as the photon hits average out and even things up.
I suppose if they allowed narrow salvo the Fed would become hit or miss ship. Hit with everything you win! miss and you lose and concede. Makes for a quick game

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 12:19 pm: Edit

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the info.

>>I'm pretty sure it does. It has 40 power, so, IIRC, 32x warp, 4xAWR, 4xIMP.<<

My purpose was to see if the Fast Fed could charge photons without slowing down. It can! The Max speed is 30 (Uses 4xAWR and 2xWarp)

As a comparison, the F-TCC max speed would be 26 (Uses 4xAWR, 4xWarp).

Of course things like the required FC, LS, Shields (uses 4 power), HET (uses 5 Warp), SS, WW, tractor, charging phasers, and any photon overloads (requires AWR/Warp) - all can reduce the ship's speed. These are the things the captain has to "balance".

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, April 22, 2021 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Oh, sure. It has 40 power, and all but 4 of it is warp.

It can load 3 photons (6), turn on the ship (4), and still move speed 30. Which is something, certainly, but it is difficult to really get something out of this on the tournament map :-)

By Ronald J. Brimeyer (Captainron) on Friday, April 23, 2021 - 08:27 am: Edit

If the Fast fed is something we want to play around with in unofficial tournaments. I think it should be given an eight P-1. That way it gives up a Photon in exchange for 2 Warp and 2 p-3s vs the official Fed. It should also get the 2 OL points per tube like the regular Fed. Not thinking this will ever become a sanctioned ship, but it may be fun to mess around with in unsanctioned games.

By Ronald J. Brimeyer (Captainron) on Friday, April 23, 2021 - 08:31 am: Edit

I just reread your last battle report. If you add 1 P-1 to each of Brian's attacks, the battle may have turned.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 23, 2021 - 09:17 am: Edit

Yeah, I think if Brian had just shot 4xP1 at me on our first pass instead of 2 each at the fighters, he is in a much better position (I take 14 more damage, which after a couple batteries, does 7 in, and as we have determined via science, Hydran is probably gonna lose a HB on 7 internals...). I mean, then he has to worry about the fighters on T2, but probably can shoot them down anyway if they become a danger on T2.

Adding an extra P1 to the ship is probably not at all out of the realm of reason (go with the standard layout? Or 3xFH, 3x360, 1xLF/L, 1xRF/R?

We just assumed it got the 2xOL energy per tube, as it turns out that is just a default rule for photons (who knew?).

Andy--you are the judge, yeah? Wanna chime in if this is official or not, as it will become relevant in a few days when I have too play this thing again?

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Friday, April 23, 2021 - 11:33 am: Edit

It appears that 2 overload energy per tube is the official rule and has been for like 25 years.

It doesn't matter if none of us knew the rule- the rule is, well, the rule. And now we all know it.

Doesn't seem like much to talk about.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, April 23, 2021 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Well, except that Graham started the tournament *not* using that rule, as we all thought it was specific to the Fed TC, and if it was a rule that the Fed should have had, Graham should have had this and not been at a disadvantage. And as I'm playing the ship next, it seems like the Judge should specifically indicate one way or the other if the ship gets the +2 OL per tube.

I mean, I agree there there isn't much to talk about. But the judge should probably say "Yea" or "Nay" at this point, in the name of everything being on the up and up.

By Majead Farsi (Devil) on Saturday, April 24, 2021 - 09:13 am: Edit

Peter as far as I've known and played SFB at WS3 the Feds get 2 points of overload energy per tube. So to fully overload on the first turn cost 1.5 hold and 2 for full overload. Total of 3.5 cost per tube. It has always been such, unless the SFB rules have changed suddenly.
In Tourney we are all at WS3.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, April 24, 2021 - 11:21 am: Edit

Sure. We covered this. Many folks (myself and the judge and the guy who was playing the Fest Fed in the first round included) seemed to think that the Fed getting 2 points of OL energy per tube was a tournament specific rule for the Fed TC. It turns out that it is not, and is just a regular WSIII rule (which was a surprise to many of us).

Check. So when Graham played the Fast Fed in Round 1, he didn't think it started with 2 points of OL energy per tube. Probably 'cause we told him that. And as such, was playing at a disadvantage.

Right. Now that the Fast Fed has advanced to the finals (that I am flying), it seems reasonable to me just to check in with the judge and have him say "Yes. Use that 2 points of OL energy per tube, even though it wasn't used in the first round, probably by accident."

This is all I am saying :-)

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 12:48 am: Edit

Just because I am a moron and didn't go back and check the rules properly is not a reason why Peter should be required to act like a moron, even though he knows better now, just to act like me.

The fast Fed is for reasons discussed exhaustively above, kind of terrible WITH the overload energy. It's basically a Fed with a phaser and a photon tube blown off in round zero.

So... fighting a Gorn is bad enough in a Fed. At least the standard Fed has a 1 in 16 chance of just winning on turn 1 by jackpotting at R8.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 08:01 am: Edit

>>Just because I am a moron and didn't go back and check the rules properly is not a reason why Peter should be required to act like a moron, even though he knows better now, just to act like me.>>

Heh :-)

Like, I don't think anyone was specifically an idiot here or anything. I (and I suspect a lot of people) honestly thought that Photons, as a general rule, didn't get any overload energy as WSIII, and that the Fed TC got 8 OL energy at the start of the tournament game was a tournament specific tweak for the Fed TC. Even having played this game since, like, 1982 or something.

When I played Brian, we assumed he got that OL energy. I imagine when I play whoever is in the final, they'll say "I assume you have that OL energy". Everyone is on the same page, I'm sure.

I just figured it was a reasonable thing to do, in a tournament (even a goofy one), just to say "Hey! Judge/Organizer! Is this a thing we can do?"

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 11:05 am: Edit

I am in the final and certainly fine with the overload energy.

By Glenn Hoepfner (Ikabar) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Huh. Albeit, its been years since I've played, I always thought, on WS3, that Feds got 4 points of OL energy to distribute as the player wishes.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Jack! We got a game! I'll email you.

What happened vs the Klingon?

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 03:06 pm: Edit

Quick Jist MadJack (Archeo) -vs- Devil (Klingon)

Turn 1 -

Turn one using a web I was able to almost take down his shield 6 despite shooting a decent sized brick. I had to use my free HET to make that happen but did manage not to get shot back. He did not launch the scatterpack turn 1 and never fired standard disruptors.

Turn 2

I mostly just run and get shot at as he follows early in the turn. He splits his fire up rolls great and does a few nasty internals. He also launches the scatterpack. Late in the turn I get turned around somehow and get a range 1 shot on his #2 with a bunch of phasers. I roll well and get about 15 internals.

Turn 3

Impulse 1 - I expect to get anchored at range 1 and can’t really see how I could realistically fight it off so don’t try. On the plus side I have 2 disruptors and a P1 I can fire inside his ship and blow off weapons. I fire impulse 1 and get 24 internals. It’s getting crunchy inside over there. I do have to deal with many drones and possibly a suicide shuttle plus him punching me in the face. I end up tractoring 2 drones, sticking a suicide shuttle in a snare, and then shooting everything else down. He again splits up his fire and ended up shooting 2 different shields and scoring no additional internals. He also did not roll great at the end missing with a UIM disruptor. He graciously called it a game there.

Overall- Majead has not played much web lately so was surprised by some of the things I was able to do. That did not help him. Splitting up fire on both turn 2 and turn 3 definitely hurt him. Concentrated fire and we probably still had a game.

I know there are Star Fleet wizards here who think the Archeo is great, the best thing since butter. I like to think I am a pretty decent Wizard apprentice myself but I don't really see it. I managed to get by Majead barely really and everything pretty much went my way. I can't imagine winning 4 in a row against drone disruptor ships.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Like, I have seen, say, Paul Scott back in the day flying the ATC, and it can be a nightmare. I think it is all about leaving the disruptors empty most of the time, getting cruel W shaped webs in the way, and getting unanswered phaser shots a lot.

That being said, I was never particularly good with either Tholian. I liked playing the Neo for a while, but wasn't particularly effective with it, and there are way too many fights where all your opponent needs to do to kill it is move forward at moderate speeds and arm weapons.

The ATC is a lot better due to the power curve, the walley eyed disruptors (so you can fire 1 off batteries out a rear shield once in a while), the stronger rear shields, and the extra snare keeping the WC alive longer. It sometimes gets in trouble by getting punched in the face where the P3s don't protect the P1s, but generally, it always seems very solid.

As noted elsewhere, it is generally a ship that needs to be flown perfectly all the time. If it is off by 1 at some point somewhere, it just gets killed.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Sunday, April 25, 2021 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Deleted

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Monday, April 26, 2021 - 02:14 pm: Edit

Sorry guys I've been busy elsewhere, so, for the record:
I always though the Fast Fed should have the 2 per tube. I suppose I should have clarified when starting this, but then, it never occurred to me that we would suddenly decide to *not* get the 2 OL points per tube.
Graham should have had the 2 OL points per tube.. Whoever flies the ship from here on out should get the 2 OL points per tube.
EDIT: Sorry Graham...
2...OL...points...per...tube.
Thanks!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, April 26, 2021 - 07:18 pm: Edit

[Thumbs Up Emoji]

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, April 27, 2021 - 12:59 pm: Edit

Heart emoji!