Interesting idea here. I don't recall, do WBP on PFs affect the cloaking cost? If so it would be a good reason to not have WBP.

As far as the layout, if you move the side shields (and tracks) in closer, I suspect it would be possible to fit 4 (or perhaps even 6) across in the space normally used for 3x2 PFs on an SSD. As "casual" PFs, 4 per page would be adequate.

I'd definitely suggest reserving the shuttle link for a ground assault variant (the current version is trying to be too multi-role).

While I realize the standard subs are L/C/R warp, have you considered making the PF subs just C warp? Check the PF DAC, but I believe that the result as far as damage allocation is almost the same. This might give the space for at least a 3 box WBP (with one drive, it will be slightly more vulnerable to damage, but...).

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 07:31 pm: Edit

I'd definitely like to see missile racks and axion torps only on all subs. Frax subs are specialized at fighting under cloak so lets stick to that strength. I don't think its terribly unbalancing and we are dealing with a simulator race after all.

Great looking ssds otherwise! (shorter the better though, the long 1 box wide one looks like a pencil and is harder to read everything)

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:37 pm: Edit

OK... this is the best version I came up with.

Still long, and is basically the same as was posted above (with the TRAC replaced by an ADD), but properly organized into an SSD.

A very unorthodox SSD, but an SSD.

I shrank the hull from 3 to 2. It seems that all the Sub ships have incredibly small hulls, so this is reasonable (IMO).

Also, there are no WBPs... let's say that WBPs interfere with Axion torpedo firing (or some other technobabble).

BTW, by breaking every SSD rule I know, I was actually able to shrink the Midget to fit within the confines of a normal PF box. Except even then it was so long I couldn't put any shields above of below it.

Ah well...

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By Richard K. Glover (Fahrenheit) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 12:30 am: Edit

Here's my take on what the Mini-Sub should look like.

No idea yet on BPV or cloak cost, so the ship data chart is absent.

I used a 3-box width, and put the WBPs and Warp engines side-by-side. I like the look of it.

Um, just noticed: the rear 3-boxes marked "Hull" should be "Impulse". My bad.

I don't like using Missile Racks, as they do not appear on SC4 subs.

This has an armament of 2xAxion, 1xFX Ph-1, 1x360 Ph-3, and 1xDrone Rack. With a cloak, that's plenty of armament.

Axion torps are limited to range 10, as standard for PF heavy weapons.


Fax Mini-Sub

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 04:16 am: Edit

Aren't these supposed to be used for carrying commandos, cargo, etc? They need an NWO box.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 08:59 am: Edit

I really like F^o's version.

I think it's underarmed though. Cloak or no cloak. The Rom STH-A has 3xPH-1 (FX, LS, RS), 1xPH-3 (RX), and 2xPl-F (LP , RP). With a cloak.

Upgrading the 360^o PH-3 to a PH-1 might suffice.

Of course, even as presented it's still too long for the standard PF SSD. By removing the WBPs, and moving the warp engines to 1x2 boxes (as opposed to 2x1) shrinks the ship just about right.)

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By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 09:00 am: Edit

Gary: NWOs on a PF? No. Much easier to create a 'variant page' SSD the way ADB did with all other race's PFs.

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By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 09:23 am: Edit

This is another version, using F^o's design as a starting point.

Primary plus: This design fits within the normal PF SSD. =)

Primary minus: No WBPs. If these are used primarily as infiltration units, then you won't need WBPs, but I'm sure there would be times you want them.

Also, Donovan sent me some specs for a Midget Tender, and I'll be getting it done today sometime.

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By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 11:51 am: Edit

Robert Cole: That's just about perfect (from an outsider PoV). But one question. Why does it have to have three engines? Couldn't it just have two and then WBPs could be on the out side? I realize that it would be best to not use WBP tactically but perhaps they should be there for the players option.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 11:52 am: Edit

Kudos, Rob. Nicely done, as always!

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 12:28 pm: Edit

Robert: Nice. As Loren suggests, 2 engines with WBPs glued on the outside.

I can see a use for a leader, but perhaps not for a scout.

For what it's worth, (E51.14) denies Axion torps to SC5 ships. So this would work only in a conjectural simulator...

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Well, for those who continuously keep mentioning Booster Packs, I have adjusted the SSD linked above (and copied here) with 2 engines and 2 WBPs.

I also adjusted the shielding to be a bit more PF normal: the originals had Frax shielding (i.e. - weak 1 and 4 shields with strong 2, 3, 5 and 6).

Thanks for the kudos on the SSD itself, but the ship ain't really mine.

And Jim Davies: Guess that's why an official mini-sub hasn't been printed yet.


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By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 01:32 pm: Edit

An Axion Lite, then??

By Richard K. Glover (Fahrenheit) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 03:10 pm: Edit

If axions can't go on SC5 ships, then either Axion-Lights (same to-hit, 2 less dmg across the board - cost 2 to arm), or perhaps replace with missile racks.

I like Robert's version. Looks sharp. I'd create PF #3 as a missile variant.

F°

By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 04:22 pm: Edit

I'd put the Ph-3 where the bttty is and just make it FX.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 05:21 pm: Edit

F^o: I'm hesitant to place Missiles on these. I don't remember a Missile variant of the original PF, and even the SC4 Subs don't have Missiles (both the SFF and SDD have a single Type-A (!!) drone rack).

A Light Axion would be simply enough to create.

Les: While I could make the PH-3 FX, the ship would then have zero coverage to the rear, excepting the drone rack. The Klinks may not mind with their G1, but the Frax have 360^o Heavy Weapons on most of their ships. A ship without similar phaser coverage would be simply preposterous.

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By Les LeBlanc (Lessss) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Then put the Ph-3 where the drone is, the drone where the btty is and the btty where the ph-3 is.

You have an FX ph-1, an RX ph-3 and a more symmetrical looking layout.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Les: I appreciate the input, but I am going to leave the SSD as is (unless Donovan, the person who started this wants something different).

While I agree on the symmetry point, ALL the existing Subs have Ph-1 FX, Ph-1 RX, AFD 360^o, with a drone in the tail.

I personally wouldn't mind upping the Ph-3 to a Ph-1, or replacing it with an ADD (a poor man's AFD), but the drone in the tail stays.

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By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 06:01 pm: Edit

I myself like the way Robert has laid out the ships so far.

As for Light Axions, maybe 1+1 arming and a 6 (9 overload) damage starting point.

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 10:02 pm: Edit

The Midget SSD has been updated with a smaller Axion Torp for PFs only. This could be a 1+1 weapon as Donovan mentioned above.

Also, I present to you the Midget Mothership (or Tender).
Not a full PFT, this ship makes (IMO) a rather nice infiltration unit.
To this end, I have given the ship 10 (as opposed to the normal 5) Probes for it's launcher. Donovan's initial request had a Missile Rack instead of a Drone rack, but on further consideration I feel a Drone rack is better for several reasons:
1.) No other SC4 Sub has Missiles (at least not yet)
2.) There are no reloads for Missile Racks.
3.) Drone Racks can be used to launch Probe drones (which helps lay those spy satellites)

Otherwise, the ship is what Donovan wanted.

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By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 08:47 am: Edit

This is a proposed Rule for the Light Axion Torpedoes I and Robert have thought up to use in the Midget subs. I have also posted it as an entry in the 'New Rules' subsection.

(EDW1.0) FRAX LIGHT AXION TORPEDOES

With the advent of Fast Patrol Ships, the Klingons decided to include a PF version of the Frax submarines to their scenarios. Unfortunately, the simulated design of the Axion Torpedo was too large and too powerfull for mounting in such a small unit. Their soulution was to design a lighter version of the Axion Torpedo for the ‘Midget’ submarines.

(EDW1.1) DESIGNATION

(EDW1.11) SSD: Each AXL box on the SSD represents one Light Axion Torpedo. Each is recorded and fired separately. The Light Axion Torpedo is a direct-fire heavy weapon. It fires in the Direct Fire Weapons Fire Stage (6D2) of the Sequence of Play (Annex #2).

(EDW1.12) DESTRUCTION: Light Axion Torpedoes are destroyed on Torpedo hits on the DAC (D4.21).

(EDW1.13) COST TO REPAIR: Light Axion Torpedoes cost 5 points to repair. Standard Axion Torpedoes cannot be hastily repaired as AXLs.

(EDW1.14) TECHNOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS: Light Axion Torpedoes are simulator weapons and cannot be used by any non-simulator race. In the simulated Frax universe, Light Axion Torpedoes were not mountable on units larger than size class 5 due to interference from the larger warp fields.

(EDW1.2) ARMING PROCEDURE

(EDW1.21) ARMING COST: Each Light Axion Torpedo requires one point of warp energy on two successive turns to arm. This can be allocated from reserve warp ower. It cannot begin arming during the same turn that it was fired.

(EDW1.22) HOLDING: If a Light Axion Torpedo is not fired by the end of a given turn, it can be held at no cost in a special stasis box. Overloaded Light Axion Torpedoes cannot be held.

(EDW1.23) OVERLOADS: A Light Axion Torpedo can be overloaded; see (EDW1.4).

(EDW1.3) FIRING PROCEDURE:

(EDW1.31) FIRING PROCEDURE: The number of damage points scored by a Light Axion Torpeo is determained by the true range and a die roll. Roll a single die. If the roll is equal to or less than the HIT# listed, the weapon has missed and no damage is scored. Refer to the LIGHT AXION TORPEDO FIRING TABLE below.

Range	0	1	2-3	4-5	6-8	9-10
Hit	1-6	1-5	1-4	1-3	1-2	1
Damage	6	5	4	3	2	1
Overload	9	8	6	5	3	NA

(EDW1.32) TARGET SIZE: Light Axion Torpedo uses a gravitic target location system. This does not work well on small targets. Apply the HIT# penalties listed below when firing at targets of various size classes. Ignore other small target modifiers (E1.7), including firing at drones (FD1.52).

(EDW51.321) LIGHT AXION TORPEDO TARGET FIRING ADJUSTMENTS TABLE

Target Size	0-1	2-4	5	6	7
Adjustment	+1	0	-1	-2	-3

(EDW1.33) LOCK-ON EFFECTS: The Light Axion Torpedo uses a special fire control system, which is not connected to the ship’s Active (D6.6) or Passive (D19.0) Fire Controls and cannot use ECCM while the ship is cloaked. The range is not doubled (D6.123) for the lack of a lock-on. ECM is used by the target unit normally. If the ship armed with the Light Axion Torpedo is uncloaked, it may use ECCM normally if its Fire Control is active. The firing of a Light Axion Torpedo does count as a weapon fired for purposes of (D6.72) if using Low-Power Fire Control. The Light Axion Torpedo rolls to hit cloaked targets at the effective range, but the damage it scores is determined based on the true range.

(EDW1.4) OVERLOADS

(EDW1.41) ARMING: A Light Axion Torpedo can be overloaded by applying 2 points of warp power (total) on the second turn of arming, or by adding two points of warp power to a torpedo being held. This extral can be allocated or reserve (H7.54). A Light Axion Torpedo cannot be partially overloaded.

(EDW1.42) HOLDING: An overloaded Light Axion Torpedo cannot be held. If not fired by the end of the turn, it must be fired into space. This WILL expose the ship (EDW1.44) but does not cause feedback (EDW1.45).

(EDW1.43) DAMAGE: An overloaded Light Axion Torpedo does 50% more damage to the target rounded down.
(EDW1.431) An overloaded Light Axion Torpedo cannot be fired at a true range less than eight hexes.

(EDW1.44) EXPOSURE: Firing or discharging an overloaded Light Axion Torpedo while cloaked reveals the firing/discharging ship, i.e., all units with active fire control within 35 hexes immediately acquire lock-on (G13.401). Units must then roll to retain a lock-on to the cloaked ship under (G13.331) in the Lock-on Stage of the following impulse (6B3). For each overloaded torpedo fired or discharged during a given impulse (after the first), one is subtracted from the subsequent lock-on retention roll. Non-overloaded torpedoes will not expose the ship and do not produce a modifire to retain the lock-on.

(EDW1.45) FEEDBACK: Firing an overloaded Light Axion Torpedo at a range of zero causes one point of damage to the firing ship’s facing shield.

(EDW1.5) OTHER

(EDW1.51) Light Axion Torpedoes are affected in the same maner as Axion Torpedoes are affected under rule (E51.5).

(EDW1.6) TERRAIN

(EDW1.61) Light Axion Torpedoes are affected by Terrain in the same manner as Axion Torpedoes as per (E51.6).

By Robert Cole (Zathras) on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 08:56 am: Edit

SSD for Midget Subs is here, SSD for Midget Tender is here.

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By Donovan A Willett (Ravenhull) on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 09:08 am: Edit

I am working on a scenario involving a Klingon DW defending an inactive fleet from a Midget attack.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 10:47 am: Edit

Cool.

By Richard K. Glover (Fahrenheit) on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 10:47 am: Edit

Very Cool Stuff™

A few comments below.

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Quote:

(EDW1.431) An overloaded Light Axion Torpedo cannot be fired at a true range less than eight hexes.

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Quote:

(EDW1.431) An overloaded Light Axion Torpedo cannot be fired at a true range greater than eight hexes.

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