SPP, minor note, plasma (as a seeking weapon) cannot move until after its target does. So a target moving into the plasma's hex will do damage to its target even if on its last pulse of movement ...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 11:31 am: Edit

Stewart Fraseer:

If the plasma torpedo was targeted on a DRONE or a Suicide Shuttle, or a Scatter Pack (or a dummy of either of those two shuttles) it would move AFTER the seeking weapon it was targeted on if both were called on to move on the same impulse.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 11:34 am: Edit

SPP, I seem to remember a rule about base rotation and how shields can take damage on difference shields, if it is true can you point me to the rule. It may have been something suggested not sure. Popped into my mind when I was looking at a scenario attacking a base. Thanks

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Eddie Crutchfield:

I do not remember taking damage on different shield, but there is a rule in Advanced Missions (R1.1G7) that allows bases to fire weapons that are about to come into arc at the same target as weapons about to go out of arc.

Charles Carroll:

Moving on an Impulse that results in the last strength of a plasma torpedo being expended dissolves the plasma torpedo at the END OF THAT MOVEMENT SEGMENT. An R torpedo moving on its 30th hex on entering that 30th hex is strength one. If it hits its target, it scored during that Damage During Movement one points of damage. After that Damage During Movement step, it is GONE. If you enter its hex on the next impulse before it moves, you do not take one point damage.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Thanks Steve, that is what I was thinking of.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 05:20 pm: Edit

SPP,
To confirm your R torp example,
an R torp that has travelled 20 hexes has a strength of 25 and is range 1 to the target ship.
If the target ship moves into the same hex as the R torp on the next imp, the ship would take only 20 points of damage and not 25 even though the R torp did not move?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 05:40 pm: Edit

Frome (FP1.165): "For example, a plasma-F torpedo that has moved twelve times has ten points of damage (five points of warhead reduction) on it. It will not score any damage on the following impulse and is removed from the board. If the torpedo had only nine points of damage, it could move two more hexes and would score one point of damage if it impacted its target in either of those moves."

From (FP1.5): "The warhead strength decreases with range, as is shown on the plasma torpedo tables. Once the warhead strength reaches zero, the torpedo has no further effect or function and the counter is removed from the board."

From (FP1.42): "If a unit that is a target of a plasma torpedo enters the hex of that torpedo as part of its movement, the torpedo strikes the target and is not regarded as having moved that impulse for purposes of warhead reduction."

Plasma torpedoes are seeking weapons, as such they move AFTER their targets. They do NOT sit on the board at Strength 1 and wait until the end of the next impulse to see if something will enter their hex and they can declare "I did not move on this impulse so I am still strength one." A plasma-R torpedo that moves on its 30 movement is strength one until the end of that Movement Segment. When that movement segment ends the torpedo has no effect and is removed from play.

In Frank Lemay's example, the torpedo would score 25 points because the torpedo does not move, but still exists. In the discussion of the torpedo using up its endurance (if moved the 30th time) and then on the next impulse its target enters its hex it is gone. It spent all of its endurance and it does not get to stick around for the next impulse.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Thanks for the clarification SPP.

Cheers
Frank

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Wednesday, August 04, 2021 - 11:45 pm: Edit

I will say this since I disagree....respectfully lol. Until it makes its next move and becomes gas...it is strength 1. Just as the example saying until it moves it is strength 25. Once it moves, as the examples show, it reduces its strength.

Based on that idea, until it is supposed to move it still has strength. While I will certainly play it this way. The rule states a torp is at the strength it was when it entered the hex. As FP1.5 states...once it reaches zero. Sitting at strength 1 or 25 or 50 it is at the strength where it sits. Once it moves, it loses strength.

Anyway interesting. Thanks for your time as always. But there is a bit of inconsistency here in my opinion.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 12:07 am: Edit

Charles,

In the SOP, before the end of the movement phase, a Plasma R that moves 30 moves(impulses) is 1 point strength, after the movement phase the plasma is removed, it is at zero strength (has no strength to go 31 moves).

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 07:35 am: Edit

Wayne,
The thing is the R plasma did not move on imp 31 and according to FP1.42 as I understand it, the strength 1 R torp does hit for 1 point since the target moved into the plasma hex thus not requiring the R torp to move and in essence, only moved 30 imps.

Plasmas are removed when they get to strength 0, not 1 after movement.
If you remove the plasma at strength 1, then rule FP1.42 is confusing IMHO.

SPP,
Respectfully, could we bump this up to SVC to get his take on FP1.42 please ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 09:40 am: Edit

Frank, yes I agree if the target moves into the plasma R hex on imp 30 it will take impact of 1 point if a real torp. (my post responding to Charles, was agreeing with SPP post), the plasma R goes to strength zero after the 30 imp movement/impact phase, no need to go to SVC I think.

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 10:16 am: Edit

We are playing a campaign where the DEFSATs are controlled by a base per R1.15D, which indicates they are treated as command mines.
We have a system with a large moon, which block lock-on 50% of the time, tested each impulse the moon is between the potential firing object and target.

Situation One:

Controlling base has clear line of site but DEFSAT is behind the moon.

Question One: Does a DEFSAT have to test each impulse it is masked by the moon to see if it loses lock-on per P2.3221?

Situation Two:

The controlling base is line of site to the target is blocked by a planet but the DEFSAT has a clear line of site.

Question Two: Can the controlling base fire the DEFSAT using the DEFSAT information?

Question Three:

Under M5.25 (Multiple Bases) you must designate a base controlling the mine (DEFSATs) at the start of the scenario. Can this be changed during the scenario (for instance if a base is at risk of being destroyed)?

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Wayne,
As per my example, an R torp that has travelled 20 imps is strength 25 and the target ship moves into the R torp hex on imp 21 getting dinged for 25 and not 20 because the R torp did not move on imp 21.

This has been verified as correct.

Therefore it stands to reason an R torp that has travelled 30 imps is strength 1 and the target ship moving into the same hex as the R torp on imp 31 should take 1 point damage because just like the R torp above travelling 20 imps but not moving on imp 21, the R torp did not move on imp 31.
I see no difference.
The fixation seems to be the strength 0 thingy but that is applied after movement to which the R torp did not move on imp 31.

So yep, if SPP could respectively bump this up to SVC for clarification, that would be great !

Cheers
Frank

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 03:50 pm: Edit

For what it's worth (which is not much) the way SPP and Frank have presented the plasma question has been this way ever since I started playing in like 1980 or something like that.

The plasma strength only decreases once it *moves*. If a ship runs into the hex before the plasma moves there is impact.

I think maybe the confusion is the incorrect idea that a plasma has to move within the same hex in order to impact the opposing unit.

-T

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Thursday, August 05, 2021 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Well my issue is SPP brought out what seemed to be a fictional idea that Plasma Torps have Rocket Fuel that runs out once it has moved its last impulse that it had strength and that since it did not hit anything when it moved and now its fuel??? ran out it disappears like a Drone after 3 turns.

I say fictional in that there is no rule I have ever seen that even implies that Plasmas can run out of fuel. They simple state that when a plasma's strength hits 0 it is removed. Which I have always played as on the impulse after it was at strength 1, when it moves, a lovely cloud of scented warm plasma drifts through the next hex doing no damage.

To me the issue is simple. If as we have all agreed a plasma that has not moved with a strength of 25 but next impulse when it moves is now strength 20...so you enter its hex, It does not move and does 25 to you, can only mean the same thing applies at every level of damage change. Because what is different about losing 1 point verses losing 5? Or more? Nothing other than after losing the last point there is no more torpedo. Which we all agree is certainly true no matter how you look at it. If a 1 pointer moves. It is now gone when it hits.

So the question is what makes a torp with 1 point any different at the impulse it moved its last effective movement from a 25 pointer dropping to 20? Nothing in the rules is mentioned.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 02:02 pm: Edit

My two cents...

Reading FP1.42 and FP1.51 I have to agree with Frank and Charles. Players may have gotten into the habit of removing plasmas once they reach the limit of their range but the rule seems clear that warhead strength is calculated at the moment of impact based on distance moved so the plasma is not reduced to zero strength until it actually exceeds its maximum range.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Note also that there are at least two case in which plasma endurance is explicitly based on impulses since launch rather than actual hexes moved, sabot torpedoes ((FP11.33) ENDURANCE) and plasma trapped in a web ((G10.52) SMALL UNITS).

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 02:42 pm: Edit

The analogous situation for sabots is described in FP11.332 and it plays out the same way.

G10.52 bases plasma endurance on movement points expended, not impulses elapsed.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 02:55 pm: Edit

Douglas;

Good catch on G10.52. I was careless in my wording. But in any case, for both plasma sabot and torpedoes passing through web, the strength is not based on number of hexes actually moved. It is quite possible for a sabot plasma to hit a target 12 hexes from launch hex but still be at full strength. It is quite possible for a torpedo launched from one side of a web to hit a target on the other side at greatly reduced strength, even if it only moved two actual hexes.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 04:41 pm: Edit

edit

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, August 06, 2021 - 10:10 pm: Edit

Wayne,

Was your "edit" comment directed at me - that I should have edited my 2:11 PM post after Douglas pointed out the error?

I do sometimes edit my posts if I catch an error immediately after posting. But since Douglas caught it, I thought it would be... unfair, I guess... to go back and edit it at that point. I thought it better to acknowledge my error, while maintaining the claim that plasma warhead strength is not always based on hexes moved, as I did in my 2:55 PM post. It can be either stronger (sabot) or weaker (web) than a simple count of hexes from launch to impact would indicate.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Saturday, August 07, 2021 - 12:06 am: Edit

Alan,

no it was another post agreeing with SPP posted answers on Plasma endurance.

By Jeff Conrad (Ledlogic) on Monday, August 09, 2021 - 02:57 am: Edit

Where could I find online a quick legend for the different symbols on fighters? I have module J but I don't see where the triangles, squares, and circles are described graphically.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Monday, August 09, 2021 - 08:44 am: Edit

Hi Jeff Conrad,

In Module J on page 73 is the End of (UO.0) Module J. This table lists all the symbols and meaning used on fighters in the Captains edition.