Plasma Torpedoes:

I have asked SVC, and if the plasma torpedo has inn fact moved on the. impulse where its strength drops to zero (range 30 for a plasma-R torpedo), it is removed from the board after the damage during movement. It does NOT sit around until the movement phase of its 31st impulse on the board in the hopes that its target will mov into its hex. It has reached the end of its life cycle and dissipated.

David Hanson:

I will try to research your questions and answer them no later than the morrow (11 Aug 21).

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 07:00 pm: Edit

SPP,
I think you have the numbers incorrectly.
An R torp after 30 imps is strength of 1, not 0 as you indicated.

So if it is removed from the board after the damage during movement, the R torp does indeed hit for a lone point on imp 31 is what I am understanding.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 07:13 pm: Edit

The plasma weapons chart, Plasma R range 30 is one point, range 31 is zero points (does not go to range 31).
Plasma S range 25 is one point, range 26 is zero (does not go to range 26).

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 07:14 pm: Edit

Pretty much Frank. It drops to 0 on impulse 31 at the time it moves. If...as we have stated...it does not move because someone moves into its hex it would still be at 1 point.

No one is saying a torp at 0 has any power to hurt you. But a torp at 1 this impulse. Is still at 1 until it moves. The exact same as a torp at 25 this impulse is still next impulse at 25 until or unless it moves.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Is it possible for the Orion tournament cruiser to choose ion cannons for options? How about the IPG?

(E21.0) ION CANNON
Ion cannon are carried by Vudar ships and some Orion pirates.
They are considered to be the heavy weapons of the ship, but
because they must be armed in advance and cost a considerable
amount of energy to hold in the cannons if they are not fired
immediately, their use is normally restricted to heavy combat
situations. An ion cannon armed ship does not normally keep the
cannon armed because of the energy requirement to simply hold the
charge in the weapon.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Wayne,
You are overlooking the fact that if the target moves into the same hex as the R torp on imp 31, the R torp is considered to not have moved so therefore imp 30 damage is applied to the target ship.

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 09:24 pm: Edit

not on an imp were it is zero damage, its strength is 1 point on range 30, it does not have any strength on range 31, does not move to range 31, is not there, it moved at strength one on range 30 (imp move), now is zero strength.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 - 10:50 pm: Edit

I'm still in agreement with Frank and Charles.

Impulse of Launch: torpedo is range 0

Nth Impulse after impulse of launch: torpedo is range (N-1) prior to moving and range N after it moves.

On the 30th impulse after launch the torpedo is range 29 (30-1) prior to moving (strength 5) and is range 30 after it moves (strength 1).

On the 31st impulse after launch the torpedo is range 30 (31-1) prior to moving (strength 1) and would be range 31 after it moves (strength 0).

By Charles Carroll (Nosferatu) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 01:10 am: Edit

On an impulse....the torp is 25 strength. It moved into the hex and is this strength. Next impulse when it moves it is now 20. So far people nod. But if you move into the hex it is in. It never moves. So it is still on the next impulse dealing 25 damage and not 20.

Somehow people overlook the fact that failure to move on even the last Move Impulse where it drops the last point is exactly the same as failure to move when it is 25 and when it moves will now be 20.

If the torp is 25 because it did not move when on that impulse it would be 20 if it moved. Then the same concept applies to a torp that is 1. On the next impulse when it moves it is 0. But if you turn into it and it never moves....it is still 1. Exactly the same an the 25 pointer that did not become only 20 points because it also did not move.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 01:59 pm: Edit

No. No. NO.

You launch a plasma-R on Impulse #1. If on Impulse #2 its target moves into its hex (Range 0) it would impact, otherwise it moves 1 hex (Range 1) and if that it is the hex occupied by its target it impacta.

If the plasma is not damaged, and does not impact before then, the plasma will move by Impulse #31 a total of 30 hexes (note, it does not count Impulse #1 when it was launched). When it entered the 30th hex (again, on Impulse #31), ir either hits its target (at Strength 1) or it does. not. IT IS THEN REMOVED FROM THE MAP. IT DOES. NOT REMAIN ON THE MAP UNTIL IMPULSE #32 IN HOPLES THAT ITS TARGET WILL MOVE INTO ITS HEX DURING MOVEMENT OF IMPULSE #32.


Jack Taylor:

It is a valid question, but I am afraid I am going to say yes (as much as the rule as written allows them for some cartels, the weapon is just difficult to use, but if the Orion player is willing to work within the limits, it is allowed).

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 03:02 pm: Edit

I'm not understanding SPP's example as it relates to the sequence of play.

FP1.51 states that the torpedo is only removed from the map after it is reduced to strength 0.

In the example for impulse 31 the torpedo begins the impulse at a strength of 5 (having moved 29 hexes) and is reduced to strength 1 after it makes its 30th move in step 6A2 of impulse 31. I don't see anything in the rule that indicates that there is a further reduction in strength (to zero) simply because the torpedo failed to hit its target. That shouldn't occur until step 6A2 of the following impulse.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 03:31 pm: Edit

SPP,
Are you saying the R torp is removed from play even though it is strength of 1 on the 30th imp and in contradiction of rule FP1.51 as Douglas points out where the torp is removed when it is strength of 0?

Your ruling is in contradiction of rule FP1.42 as well where it states ......
"If a unit that is a target of a plasma torpedo enters the hex of that torpedo as part of its movement, the torpedo strikes the target and is
not regarded as having moved that impulse for purposes of warhead reduction."

I am confused but do thank you for your time and trouble.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Impulse #1, Launch. Range 0, Hexes moved 0. Warhead 50.
Impulse #2, Range 1, Hexes moved 1.
Impulse #3, Range 2, Hexes moved 2.
Impulse #4, Range 3, Hexes moved 3.
Impulse #5, Range 4, Hexes moved 4.
Impulse #6, Range 5, Hexes moved 5.
Impulse #7, Range 6, Hexes moved 6.
Impulse #8, Range 7, Hexes moved 7.
Impulse #9, Range 8, Hexes moved 8.
Impulse #10, Range 9, Hexes moved 9.
Impulse #11, Range 10, Hexes moved 10.
Impulse #12, Range 11, Hexes moved 11, Warhead drops to Strength 35, but begins movement at Strength 50 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #13, Range 12, Hexes moved 12.
Impulse #14, Range 13, Hexes moved 13.
Impulse #15, Range 14, Hexes moved 14.
Impulse #16, Range 15, Hexes moved 15.
Impulse #17, Range 16, Hexes moved 16, Warhead drops to Strength 25, but begins movement at Strength 35 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #18, Range 17, Hexes moved 17.
Impulse #19, Range 18, Hexes moved 18.
Impulse #20, Range 19, Hexes moved 19.
Impulse #21, Range 20, Hexes moved 20.
Impulse #22, Range 21, Hexes moved 21, Warhead drops to Strength 20, but begins movement at Strength 25 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #23, Range 22, Hexes moved 22.
Impulse #24, Range 23, Hexes moved 23.
Impulse #25, Range 24, Hexes moved 24.
Impulse #26, Range 25, Hexes moved 25.
Impulse #27, Range 26, Hexes moved 26, Warhead drops to Strength 10, but begins movement at Strength 20 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #28, Range 27, Hexes moved 27.
Impulse #29, Range 28, Hexes moved 28.
Impulse #30, Range 29, Hexes moved 29, Warhead drops to Strength 5, but begins movement at Strength 10 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #31, Range 30, Hexes moved 30, Warhead drops to Strength 1, but begins movement at Strength 5 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move. At the end of the damage during movement when all units have performed their moves for this impulse (Impulse #31) and all damage (during the movement phase) has been resolved, the torpedo is removed from play, it DOES NOT CARRY OVER ONE POINT OF DAMAGE FOR AN ADDITIONAL IMPULSE HOPING THAT ITS TARGET WILL ENTER ITS HEX. If the torpedo were to hit its target on Impulse #31, Range 30, it would score one point of damage, but it does. not score any damage on Impulse #32 under these conditions (launched on Impulse #0 and not a sabot or long-range torpedo, e.g., Module C4 plasma) because it has already expended its range.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 04:35 pm: Edit

I think the issue here is that (FP1.42) defines the endurance of a plasma torpedo as being 32 impulses, but that reduction of the warhead strength to zero will remove it from the board (FP1.51).

SPP, the issue people are having is that there is nothing in the rules to indicate that a torpedo that would be reduced to zero on its next move is removed after moving and failing to hit its target the impulse before. A plasma torpedo of Type-? has X strength after moving Y hexes per its table (barring sabots, phaser damage, etc). (FP1.42) says "Torpedo as part of its movement, the torpedo strikes the target and is not regarded as having moved that impulse for purposes of warhead reduction" with no exception made for the impulse before its scheduled dissipation. Thus, it reads as "A Type-R at range 30 has a warhead strength of 1" with no provision for treating it any differently under (FP1.42) - meaning it doesn't reduce to strength 0 until it tries to move on Impulse #32 in your example, any more than it doesn't reduce until it actually moves at any other point.

It may be that the intent is for it to go away at the end of movement of the impulse before, but I am not seeing where that arises from the interaction of (FP1.42) and (FP1.51).

Further, does that mean we have to check the next impulse strengths of damaged warheads to see if they evaporate after moving the "final" hex? If a plasma-R takes enough damage to reduce it to a warhead strength of 14 by the time it reaches range 10, does it remain it that hex at strength 14 in case it target moves into it next impulse, before it moves its 11th hex and goes to zero strength (base strength now 35 with 36 points of reduction)?

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 04:59 pm: Edit

SOP, the phasers damage gets applied and if enough to destroy it, the plasma is removed from the board.

in Endurance (FP1.42).. , they will reach zero strength before moving..

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 05:11 pm: Edit

SPP,
If I may continue your example of impulse movement,
Impulse #32,Range 31, hexes moved is 31, WH drops to 0 but begins movement at strength 1 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.

I do not see the difference between this and the other levels when the WH drops ?

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Alex Chobot:

I really cannot do anything more. The answer was confirmed by SVC, that when a torpedo moves the last hex of its range, if it has not hit its target, it is removed from the board. It does. not sit there for the remainder of the impulse so that on the next impulse its target might move into its hex and be damaged. It moved (in the case of a non-saboted plasma-R) 30 hexes and if it did not hit its target, it is removed after the 30th hex of movement at the end of its movement. It does not hang around for one more impulse waiting for its target to enter its hex. It is removed.

By Douglas Saldana (Dsal) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 05:28 pm: Edit

I think the torpedo is still moving toward the target after the 30th hex of movement, it simply lacks the range to cover the distance (assuming the target is in an adjacent hex) unless the target also chooses to move toward the torpedo (which it might choose to do if it wanted to verify whether the torpedo was a Psuedo-Plasma).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 05:35 pm: Edit

David Hanson asked on Thursday, August 05, 2021:

We are playing a campaign where the DEFSATs are controlled by a base per R1.15D, which indicates they are treated as command mines.
We have a system with a large moon, which block lock-on 50% of the time, tested each impulse the moon is between the potential firing object and target.

Situation One:

Controlling base has clear line of site but DEFSAT is behind the moon.

Question One: Does a DEFSAT have to test each impulse it is masked by the moon to see if it loses lock-on per (P2.3221)?

ANSWER: Yes, because even though the base can see it, something may be masking the DefSats line of sight/line of fire. Consider that DefSats could be orbiting a planet that the base is on, but they have a clear line of sight to all targets that the base cannot see and the base can order the DefSats to fire or use the transporter repeater function to land troops from the base on the reverse side of the planet which is out of the base's line of sight. As long as the base is able to communicate with the satellite (through a chain of other satellites) this can be done. But the DefSats must have their own lock-ons to a target, and if something interferes they cannot fire.

Situation Two:

The controlling base is line of site to the target is blocked by a planet but the DEFSAT has a clear line of site.

ANSWER: If the bases has communications with he DefSat it can order that DefSat to fire (they base is obviously using the targeting data from the DefSat, and as such must be able to communicate with it perhaps by relay from another DefSat).

Question Two: Can the controlling base fire the DEFSAT using the DEFSAT information?

ANSWER: Communications between the base and DefSat allows this. If the base has a communications line with a Defense Satellite even if it is on the opposite side of the planet from the base (in orbit) It can order DefSats to fire on targets the DefSat can see.

Question Three:

Under (M5.25) (Multiple Bases) you must designate a base controlling the mine (DEFSATs) at the start of the scenario. Can this be changed during the scenario (for instance if a base is at risk of being destroyed)?

ANSWER: No, sorry.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 05:36 pm: Edit

Douglas Saldana:

See previous replies. See the episode "Balance of Terror" in which the weakened plasma torpedo hits the Enterprise and does no damage at the end of its run, though admitted the Enterprise was moving in reverse at the time.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 05:40 pm: Edit

SPP: I'm perfectly willing to accept that is indeed the designer's intent (and how no few players have played it) - but then an errata item is needed addressing the final impulse of a torpedo's life - including if it applies to a damaged warhead about to cross into a range bracket where the reduction would take it to zero.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 - 08:18 pm: Edit

SPP,
The last hex of a torpedo range, does that apply to S torps ?
After 25 moves, it is strength of 1, on the 26th move, it is strength of 0 ?

If so, then Alex is right, there may have to be an errata to reflect this because as the rules[FP1.42 and FP1.51] stand, this does lead to confusion.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 03:35 pm: Edit

Frank Lemay:

What in the rules says that the resolution for any torpedo is different from any other torpedo?

Plasma-R is Strength 1 at 30 hexes range if it hits.
Plasma-M is Strength 1 at 30 hexes range if it hits (Module X1).
Plasma-S is Strength 1 at 25 hexes range if it hits.
Plasma-SL is Strength 1 at 35 hexes range if it hits (Module C4).
Plasma-SS is Strength 1 at 20 hexes range if it hits (Module C4).
Plasma-G is Strength 1 at 20 hexes range if it hits.
Plasma-L is Strength 1 at 20 hexes range if it hits (Module X1).
Plasma-GL is Strength 1 at 25 hexes range if it hits (Module C4).
Plasma-GS is Strength 1 at 15 hexes range if it hits (Module C4).
Plasma-F is Strength 1 at 15 hexes range if it hits.
Plasma-D is Strength 1 at 15 hexes range if it hits.
Plasma-K is Strength 1 at 10 hexes range if it hits.

All move their final impulse and if they do not impact a target on that final impulse at Strength 1, they are removed from the map. They do not stay on the map until the next movement phase in so that their target can enter their hex. SVC has already ruled on this. This was his ruling, I was asked to get his ruling, and I did.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 04:54 pm: Edit

We get that is the ruling, but there's nothing in the rules that indicate that the final impulse at strength 1 is treated any differently under (FP1.42) and (FP1.51).

And again, does that also apply to a damaged torpedo that will drop to zero if it moves next impulse into a new range bracket?

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 05:01 pm: Edit

SPP,
***********
FP1.42 Endurance,
Plasma torpedoes have a maximum
endurance of 32 impulses, but, as their warhead strength steadily
decreases, they will reach zero strength before moving all 32 hexes.

"If a unit that is a target of a plasma torpedo enters the hex of that
torpedo as part of its movement, the torpedo strikes the target and is
not regarded as having moved that impulse for purposes of warhead reduction."

**************
FP1.51 Strength Calculation,
The warhead strength of a plasma torpedo is determined at the instant of impact, based on two
factors: the distance that the torpedo has traveled (it grows weaker
the farther it travels) and damage done to it (FP1.6) by phasers and
(possibly) other effects. This may be further adjusted by the effects of
electronic warfare (D6.36). The warhead strength vs range (for each
type) is shown on the Plasma Torpedo Table (FP1.53). The warhead
strength decreases with range, as is shown on the plasma torpedo tables.

"Once the warhead strength reaches zero, the torpedo has no further effect or function and the counter is removed from the board "
*****************

You are telling us to remove the plasma at strength of 1 even though FP1.51 says to remove it at strength of 0.

You also say if the target moves into the plasma hex on its last gasp of breath, the target does not take the 1 point of damage even though FP1.42 says it does.

Thus my confusion.

Cheers
Frank