Frank,

the plasma is being removed at strength zero, it is not there after it moved at 1 strength (its last move). This is how I have always understood the rules.

Alex,

in FP1.42, it says the plasma will reach zero strength before moving

In FP1.51, Once the warhead strength reaches zero, the torpedo has no further effect or function and the counter is removed from the board

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Wayne,
The plasma will reach strength 0 "before moving all 32 hexes"
Kinda forgot about that last bit.
:>)

Re FP1.51 as you quoted, I agree but we are being told to remove the torp at strength of 1 .


Cheers
Frank

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Wayne, (FP1.42) says it "is *NOT* [emphasis mine] regarded as having moved that impulse for purposes of warhead reduction". So it has not moved to the range which reduces to zero, and thus still has its strength of 1 as the rules are written.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 07:42 pm: Edit

I see the problem, an R-torp does not go to zero strength until after it moves on its 31st impulse of movement, just like it does not decrease to strength 1 until after its 30th impulse of movement.

Convention is to remove such a torpedo as it will not cause damage on its own (dropping to strength 0 after movement) since it is usually in a chase position. This is an edge case where the target could intentionally run into the torpedo (and taking a point of damage) if it's a real rather than pseudo-torpedo ...

As for FP1.42, yes every torpedo will reach strength zero before travelling -32- impulses (except for a long-range type which has a 35 range vs 32 endurance) ...

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, August 12, 2021 - 07:44 pm: Edit

This is the way I have always played it and now I am being told it is wrong.
All those wins with my Gorns are now tainted.
:>)

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Correction: The fault for this error rests entirely with me. I researched the answer and discussed it with SVC, and based on my research he endorsed the answer. Given the number of people who were calling me a donkey (a favorite anecdote of SVC's) I went back and reviewed the rules and finally figured out what was being pointed out, but I was too dense to realize. The endurance rule (FP1.42 said that torpedoes have an endurance of 32 impulse, and the only way that can be true is if a plasma-R is launched on Impulse #1 (does not move on that impulse) runs its full movement (from Impulse #2 to Impulse #31 for 30 hexes traveled) and then disappears at during movement on Impulse #32 (torpedo does not move, but as others have noted it can be moved into on that impulse).

This error is entirely my own failure and no one else's. Clearly it is too long since I played against plasma and generally did not come up very often (if at all). My apologies.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Impulse #1, Launch. Range 0, Hexes moved 0. Warhead 50.
Impulse #2, Range 1, Hexes moved 1.
Impulse #3, Range 2, Hexes moved 2.
Impulse #4, Range 3, Hexes moved 3.
Impulse #5, Range 4, Hexes moved 4.
Impulse #6, Range 5, Hexes moved 5.
Impulse #7, Range 6, Hexes moved 6.
Impulse #8, Range 7, Hexes moved 7.
Impulse #9, Range 8, Hexes moved 8.
Impulse #10, Range 9, Hexes moved 9.
Impulse #11, Range 10, Hexes moved 10.
Impulse #12, Range 11, Hexes moved 11, Warhead drops to Strength 35, but begins movement at Strength 50 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #13, Range 12, Hexes moved 12.
Impulse #14, Range 13, Hexes moved 13.
Impulse #15, Range 14, Hexes moved 14.
Impulse #16, Range 15, Hexes moved 15.
Impulse #17, Range 16, Hexes moved 16, Warhead drops to Strength 25, but begins movement at Strength 35 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #18, Range 17, Hexes moved 17.
Impulse #19, Range 18, Hexes moved 18.
Impulse #20, Range 19, Hexes moved 19.
Impulse #21, Range 20, Hexes moved 20.
Impulse #22, Range 21, Hexes moved 21, Warhead drops to Strength 20, but begins movement at Strength 25 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #23, Range 22, Hexes moved 22.
Impulse #24, Range 23, Hexes moved 23.
Impulse #25, Range 24, Hexes moved 24.
Impulse #26, Range 25, Hexes moved 25.
Impulse #27, Range 26, Hexes moved 26, Warhead drops to Strength 10, but begins movement at Strength 20 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #28, Range 27, Hexes moved 27.
Impulse #29, Range 28, Hexes moved 28.
Impulse #30, Range 29, Hexes moved 29, Warhead drops to Strength 5, but begins movement at Strength 10 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #31, Range 30, Hexes moved 30, Warhead drops to Strength 1, but begins movement at Strength 5 if the target moves into the torpedo's hex and the torpedo did not move.
Impulse #32, Range 30, Hexes moved 30, Warhead begins the movement segment at Strength 1, and if its target enters its hex during the movement segment, the warhead will impact at Strength 1. If the torpedo's target does not enter its hex, the torpedo when called on to move will instead dissipate having no effect on anything.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 04:16 pm: Edit

No worries, all of us have been there ourselves! Thanks, SPP.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 05:18 pm: Edit

SPP,
Thank you very much.
I for one did not ever call you a donkey, I thought I was the donkey for playing it all wrong over the years based on your ruling.

It happens to us all !

Thank you for all that you do here on the Rules thread !

All those wins with my Gorns are now good again !!
:>)

Cheers
Frank

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 06:03 pm: Edit

SPP, the time you invest in researching and answering all the rules questions from all the many parts of the very complicated SFB game system is greatly appreciated.

--Mike

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 06:42 pm: Edit

What Mike said !!

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, August 13, 2021 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Thank you SPP and SVC for the answer to plasma endurance.

.. it would seem that I am the donkey,
I was getting confused with the plasma weapons chart. ( and it is strange I thought that, for I have done the move into plasma at 1 strength to see if it is real or a pseudo torp).

all good

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Hi Steve,

Can a Federation GVX buy an E3 SWAC shuttle?

Marcel

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Sorry,

I meant an E2 SWAC.

Extract form Federation MSSB regarding the E2.

very rarely one would be deployed on a starbase (R1.1), stellar fortress (R1.89), or another carrier.

Marcel

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - 07:54 am: Edit

Hi Steve,

I have a question regarding ballistic targeting.

Can a unit launches seeking weapons toward a planet on a ballistic targeting toward general damage from any range?

F4.21 specifies that there is no explosion.

If no,

Can a ship uses P2.713 toward general destruction?

Marcel

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - 08:47 am: Edit

Hi Marcel,

I would say yes (P2.713) seekers can be used to do general damage, note in (P2.522) it written,

In scenarios where general damage is called for (P2.525), the weapons crews are selecting appropriate cities or industrial areas on the hex side selected by the player, See also (F4.22).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Marcel Trahan:

SWAC shuttles were originally prohibited from deployment on any carrier but a CVA when they were first published in the 1980d. As time has passed, that limit has become looser not just in terms of other large carriers being published, but as in terms of Federation & Empire. The result is that line of text in the Federation Master Starship Book. However, at this time I would be inclined to say "No" simply because a GVX only carries six heavy fighters,

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, August 27, 2021 - 11:50 am: Edit

A clarifying question about scatter packs and Weapon Status II.

S4.12 says that one shuttle may be prepared for a special role. It also says that carriers may have completed two turns of deck crew activity prior to the scenario.

Under normal circumstances, fully loading a scatter pack would require two deck crew actions for three turns.

Question: Does the first statement in S4.12 mean that a single scatter pack is fully loaded and ready to go on turn 1 or do both statements mean that the first two turns of arming can be assumed to be complete, allowing loading to be completed on turn 1 and the fully loaded scatter pack to be launched turn 2?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 27, 2021 - 12:11 pm: Edit

John M. Williams:

It means that a ship at WS-II can have one shuttle ready for a special mission. Whether that one shuttle is a suicide shuttle (can be armed anywhere from three points of power to nine points of power, your choice of what you want the warhead to be) and you have to pay one point of power on Turn #1 to hold it in readiness. Or you if you had drone capably it means you can have a shuttle prepared as a scatter-pack loaded with drones from your reload stockpile and ready to launch (no power needed), it might not have a full load of drones (you might only stick in a single drone as part of some effort to fool your opponent, or an E4 prior to the Y175 refit only has four reload drones available, you might, however, have bought some extra drones with commander's options so that the scatter-pack could be fully loaded). Or you might have an MRS shuttle prepared to go, or perhaps you have an MRS shuttle ready as the Scatter-Pack (carries more drones than a standard scatter-pack if drone armed). And so on.

Beyond that, arming fighters is separate from the shuttles (even though they are shuttles), and you have to actually run the deck crews through their paces and account for each deck crew and the rules for loading. Thus a carrier with 12 deck crews has 24 Deck Crew actions it can allocate to its fighters, and if the 12 fighters on the carrier are all size 1, no given fighter can have more than four deck crew actions allocated to it. You start Turn #1 with those 24 deck crew actions completed, meaning you might launch a partial strike, or you may just have the deck crews try to compete the arming of all, or at least some, of the fighters before launching any. It is your choice.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, August 27, 2021 - 02:47 pm: Edit

If the ship preparing a scatter pack at WSII is a carrier, is that still separate from the loading drones on the fighters or do deck crews have to divert from the fighters to load drones on the scatter pack?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 27, 2021 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Shuttles are not fighters, although fighters are shuttles. You can prepared the shuttle (at WS-ii) without detracting from your fighters.

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Friday, August 27, 2021 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Thanks, as always!

By John M. Williams (Jay) on Saturday, August 28, 2021 - 06:46 pm: Edit

A new question for you about sabot plasmas, specifically the Designer's Notes. Starting in the middle of the second paragraph it says "... players adopted the tactic of timing their approach to be in firing position on those impulses, getting a 'snap shot' at Range 2. The solution ... was to simply declare that the plasma didn't move twice on the impulse of launch."

Isn't the last part of that incorrect? Plasmas (or any seeking weapons for that matter) don't move on the impulse of launch because launching comes after movement.

Similarly, F2.32 says that because of the sequence of play, even a plasma launched in the same hex as a target will not impact the target until the movement portion of the next impulse (at the earliest; it could be later).

Going back to the Designer's Notes, the core concern seemed to be that a player could get a free shot at a target by launching at Range 2 on the impulse before the double move. However, the target (and any nearby supporting ships) will still be able to fire at the plasma on the impulse of launch. The target ship might have to fire at range 2 instead of range 1, but it still gets a chance to respond.

Does this potentially negate the reason behind rule FP11.315 (the plasma does not move twice on its first move if the impulse of launch is 3, 7, 11, etc.)? Because having to fire at range 2 instead of range 1 on the impulse before impact is going to be the result of any well-timed sabot torpedo, regardless of when it was launched. E.g., firing on impulse 2 at range 3 against a slow moving target.

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Sunday, August 29, 2021 - 03:10 pm: Edit

I think that is the reasoning. So...
When playing sabots, I tend to launch 2 impulses before the double move. I.E. 2, 6, 10, etc. That way the sabot will move like a normal speed 32 plasma the impulse after launch and then it will take the double move.

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Tuesday, August 31, 2021 - 04:53 am: Edit

Hi Steve, i have a question regarding X-ships EW versus monsters immuned to EW.

XD6.34 specifies that if a X-ship has more ECCM than the target ECM, it gains a -1 shift. Does it apply against a monster?

On the same train of thought, does the legendary weapon officer G22.721 bonus applies as well vs monsters?

Does the G21.211 -1 shift for outstanding crew applies as well?

Marcel