+++++I think the Neo is certainly better than the Archeo at just shooting folks with disruptors and the fist (which is why that was my plan :-), but that is really dependent on the dice falling your way, and I don't think that, in general, a Tholian is going to win the game by just shooting folks with disruptors and the fist. 'Cause at that point, you are just playing as a Klingon, but without the UIM, without drone racks, and without the scatter pack++++++

But with the fist. Don't forget the Fist.

Dan Bisteff!!!! Calling CaDeT StImPy!!
You are in for wayne douglas power.

Please get in touch with Justin Royter to arrange the match.

That is all...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 - 10:50 am: Edit

>>But with the fist. Don't forget the Fist.>>

I didn't forget the fist. But the fist forgot me...

By Richard Eitzen (Rbeitzen) on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 - 11:02 am: Edit

You tended to get shot at closer range than you yourself shot the opponent. This can lead to problems when those close range shots are p1s or on down shields.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Hello Peter, Andy,

I've sent two images by email, since this BBS is text only. These are images form the Archeo's planning process, and I think might illustrate this discussion. The battle we had really had two engagements, so I'll discussion each below.

Turn 1 & 2

You can see that I intended to corner dodge from the beginning, while I had done some significant planning to cast a web on turn 1 and come out to play. My feeling is that the Neo, with 40 power and fully charged is a beast, and I'd like to avoid the turn 1 strike. The way this worked out, both of us discharged disrupters, and we had an engagement early on turn 2. This allowed me to re-plan during allocation, and put 14 reinforcement on the #2, since I had the feeling that you would shoot before I went behind the web. Even though the Neo had a centerline shot, it was aimed right where I expected it, so it was not great, but it did not do horrible damage.

What if the Neo took a less optimal shot, but on late turn 1? At the time, I was really worried, since my plan had called for reinforcement on the #1, while the Neo was approaching my #2. Depending upon how the Neo wanted to play this, it could be a range 8 shot, and then some delay, or even a cast web by the Neo to restrict and shape the movement by the Archeo until the weapons cycle.

Instead, it worked out well for the Archeo to take the Neo's shot where it was expected, and then HET and come back in for a phaser strike on an empty Neo. Archeo was lucky to have more initiative at that time (i.e. I turned earlier), so was able to get a rear phaser shot on the down shield. If that did not go the Archeo's way, then the engagement was looking much better in terms of exchange for the Neo.

Turn 3 & 4

This engagement, you can see from the planning that the Archeo knew that the Neo could not get the FA shot, given the way that turn modes and movements could be plotted (i.e. speed 21 does not move on 3, and 3 is the first time to announce a speed change). This was all due to the web's location. One question that comes to mind, if the Neo decides to do a second HET, why do so into the web? Why not do so due south (Dir D), avoid the web, and retain movement options? Instead, once the Archeo works up the willpower for the second HET, then he can approach the Neo stuck in the web, so getting a range 0 centerlined shot is pretty easy in these circumstances.

Anyway, from my perspective, this battle was much closer than mentioned, like it was an inevitable loss because the Archeo is a better ship. The Neo had the edge in first turn maneuver and planning, but was not able to capitalize on it, because the decision was made to delay the alpha until early turn 2. The Archeo took advantage of some initiative after the alpha on turn 2 to get a phaser strike on the down shield that brought the match back to even. Turn 4, the Archeo had an edge in planning, and in spite of the surprise second HET, was not damaged too badly due to poor weapons fire, and was able to capitalize on the web, and the Neo's choice to get stuck. I don't think we can just say, this was an episode of bad luck, any captain that avoids breakdown on the second HET is not entirely unlucky.

Regards,
Geof

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 - 08:27 pm: Edit

>>You tended to get shot at closer range than you yourself shot the opponent. This can lead to problems when those close range shots are p1s or on down shields.>>

This is true. It is the standard dynamic when fighting a Tholian. The Tholian tends to use webs and maneuver to force longer range shots for closer range shots with fewer guns that tend to be advantageous. In this fight, my opponent (the ATC) was much better at being a Tholian that I was, so I was playing as the non Tholian. I took calculated risks (longer shots) in an attempt to get a leg up through hitting first.

If my opponent had played a little less well, or I had been a little luckier, I would have been fine. But my opponent played very well, and I was unlucky when I needed to be lucky. Which gets you killed a lot of the time.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, September 21, 2021 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Hey Peter,

Thanks for the compliment, I was indeed playing Tholian ... I think I was barely able to imitate those little rocks well enough to win.

Meanwhile you were impersonating a big Klingon. But we know that you are more lizard-like or perhaps feral in reality.

Regards,
Geof

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - 07:37 am: Edit

Absolutely--it was a good game, but I was 100% playing to do well if I rolled well, and do poorly if I rolled poorly, and if my opponent completely outguessed me every time (which, ya know, he did :-), my dice were less relevant. And as it turned out, my opponent did the exact right things in both exchanges (i.e. you had 14 reinforcement on the shield I shot, and then had 12 in tractor when you needed a giant tractor), and then my guns failed me on the second volley. So, well, I did what I could, and things worked out poorly for me in the end :-)

Did you have a HET reallocated on T4? If I had hit harder and blown off your batteries, could you have HET at that point?

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - 11:07 am: Edit

Bill and I are playing tonight.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - 11:08 am: Edit

Hey Peter,

Yeah, I admit, I was able to guess well.

I guess my long-winded ramble from above suggested that I would have been hurt more if you blasted me on turn 1, since my brick was on the wrong shield.

And yeah, when you did the second HET back towards me, that's when I allocated 3 1/3 from btty to HET, so if you blew off all the btty, I guess I would lose 2/3 ... I don't think I had any other capacitor with room for that left over 2/3.

Regards,
Geof

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - 06:37 pm: Edit

Geof wrote:
>>And yeah, when you did the second HET back towards me, that's when I allocated 3 1/3 from btty to HET, so if you blew off all the btty, I guess I would lose 2/3 ... I don't think I had any other capacitor with room for that left over 2/3.>>

I fired on you the same impulse I HET, so if I had hit harder, I would have blown off the batteries (I hit one on the 10 in; 18-20 internals certainly would have hit more) before you could have allocated to the HET, as allocating batteries for delayed use happens at the end of the impulse, after damage is allocated.

So if I hit with the fist or one more disruptor, you wouldn't have been able to HET, which would have made a big difference there too.

(reserve power for delayed use allocation is still one of the stickiest parts of tournament play, especially on line, and I don't know that there is a way to fix it).

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Indeed,
a good hit with direct fire weapon rolls would of changed the scenario.
In IA, the 6E Post-Combat Segment: Deploy Reserve Power for "delayed uses" under (H7.132). A way to note it in game.

By Bill Schoeller (Bills) on Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - 11:18 pm: Edit

I defeated Graham in masters.

He launched an enveloper turn 1, I turned out.

He launched a pseudo turn 2. I turned in and ate it. He launched an enveloper, I took it for 60. I ran up to range 2 and did 20ish internals missing with a hellbore.

Turn 3 I chased. We fired phasers on impulse 32.
Turn 4 he stopped. I fired 2 OL hellbores missing with 1 getting no internals but weakening another shield. He ate a drone for 12 to a third shield.

Turn 5 I ran and did not double. I doubled 1 engine each turn and repaired 2 boxes by now. He luanched a 30 pointer that must be real.

Turn 6 I turned out to take the torp at 11. Then we both turned in. he bolted 2 torps missing with the F, and did 12 in. I ran up to range 2 and then 1 firing 4p1, 1 std hb and 1 ol hb on the way. I slipped into his hex. I trac him, but he moves next impulse under trac. He launched a sui hit for 18. I launched 2 drones after he moves us and they hit for 48.

Game over.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Wednesday, September 29, 2021 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Been trying to schedule with Justin, and he just sent a message that he is too busy right now & should be replaced. How about I replace Justin & play against Wayne? (instead of replacing Wayne to play Justin)

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, September 29, 2021 - 09:58 pm: Edit

ok, does that mean I am playing a Hydran now? or is there another player that wants to re join to take my place?
I can not do anything today I have been called up.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 01:38 am: Edit

Wayne, my thought was I take Justin's place (including whatever ship he was in), and you keep your place. But I'm not the judge, or running the tourney, so will leave it to Andy. I should be available to play tomorrow (Thurs.) evening, if you're available.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 06:17 am: Edit

Daniel, I am not in the game, game 1.6 will need another player to replace Justin.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 07:21 am: Edit

I guess the original was ...
1.6 Justin R (Hydran) vs. Brain E (ISC)

Then there were many changes ... Maybe Wayne was in for Brian E at some point? I guess we have one more open spot now ...

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 09:31 am: Edit

Ill join if possible

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Seth:
Can you get with Dan and get the game played?
Thanks!
You guys can figure out what ship you're flying since you're both replacements

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 12:55 pm: Edit

We are probable playing tonight but what ships are we each flying? I dont care but just a heads up?

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 03:57 pm: Edit

stick with Hydran v ISC to not mess up the tree...maybe flip a coin to see who gets what?

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Seth ISC over Daniel HYD

The tree looks like a mess to me, who do I contact to play?

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Thursday, September 30, 2021 - 10:44 pm: Edit

Hey Seth,

I'm tracking the tree pretty closely, since I want to load it into a database, eventually. Of course Andy is probably tracking this closely too. From what I see, I think you are HYD and facing Jason Gray (The_Hood) in RKR.

Regards,
Geof

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Friday, October 01, 2021 - 11:27 am: Edit

Andy is not tracking it closely. I can forensically reconstruct it if needs be.

Oh tree, wherefore art though?

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Saturday, October 02, 2021 - 09:59 am: Edit

Hey Andy, I just sent you an email with the tree.