Question re WS 3 special shuttles preparation.
At WS 3, do MRS count as a prepared shuttle ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 07:45 am: Edit

Frank,

yes, sometimes (S4.1) if loaded as SP, and (J8.21) if loaded with mines. Otherwise it is treated like a fighter, but cannot be launched before the scenario begins.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 08:04 am: Edit

My bad, I should have been more specific re MRS.

The MRS is prepared as a MRS, drones loaded up, plasmas and even phaser only MRS.
Does this count as a special shuttle preparation at WS 3?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 08:21 am: Edit

Next up, questions re fighters and their pods.

1- STE Hydran EW fighter has 2 extra EW pods.
Its normal speed is 15, do the extra 2 EW pods slow it down to speed 13 ?

2- As I understand it, each EW pod provides 2 points of EW so an EW fighter with 2 extra pods could lend a total of 4 points for her squadron, this being in any combination as needed [2/2, 3/1, 4/0 etc]?

3- Hydran UH and a Hydran DE have bought the "system allowing a carrier to control fighters of another carrier'', (each carrier must pay the 5 points).
The UH wants to buy for 2 STE [swap 2 ST2 to do so] and then lend 1 to the DE using this system so the lent EW fighter from the UH can support the DE St 2 fighter squadron.
Is this ok or must the DE also buy/swap out a ST 2 to get her own STE ?

4- An EW fighter can only lend to her squadron or to 2 different squadrons ?

Thanks for helping me out with my lack luster fighter knowledge !
:>)

Cheers
Frank

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 09:59 am: Edit

Hi Frank,

(S4.1) An MRS is treated like a fighter for arming status rules, but cannot be launched before the
scenario begins. If loaded as an SP, an MRS would count as one of the “special” shuttles.

1-
(J11.111) Alternatively, each fighter can carry two pods in addition to any drones. Fighters which are not armed with drones can carry two pods in this manner. For each extra one carried (to a maximum of two), reduce the speed (with or without warp packs) and the dogfight rating (J7.62) of the fighter by one. The DFR can be reduced below zero.

So, max speed would be 13 or 28 with warp pack.

2-
(J11.23) USE BY EWF: The EW points generated by EWPs on an EWF are used by the EWF in addition to its built-in EW (J4.47). Only those points generated by the EWPs, and not the built-in points, can be lent to other fighters in the squadron under (J4.92) and (J4.93).

So, EW fighter can lend up to 4 points of EW to its squadron (and itself) with 2 EW pods. If you buy a St-E, it comes already with 2 EW pods, you could add 2 additional EW pods, reducing its speed to go to a total of 8 EW for lending.

3-
(J4.43) TWO-SEAT FIGHTERS: There is a two-seat version of all fighter types. Each carrier can have one such fighter; CVAs can have two. The two-seat version costs two points (combat BPV) more than the standard version, but has the same performance. In addition, it can control up to twelve seeking weapons and can assume control of such weapons launched by other fighters of its squadron.
Two-seat fighters are often modified into EW fighters; see (R1.F7). EW fighters retain the seeking weapon control ability of twoseat fighters.

Basically, the one two-seat fighter (J4.43) in a squadron is configured with EW pods [originally (J4.96), superseded by (J11.2) ] and gains the ability to lend EW support. Fighters can receive EW points from the EW fighter (J4.93) within their squadron (J4.46). EWFs cannot lend while performing EM (C10.523). See (J4.921) for requirements and (J1.343) for launch restrictions. The pods can be detected at Tactical Intelligence Level I (D17.4).

So, max 1 two-seat fighter per carrier (it can be converted to a EWF).

No provision for squadron exchange in (J15.0).

(J4.463) No more than one EWF can be included in the squadron. Squadrons with fewer than eight fighters cannot include an EWF, but the carrier might have an MRS (J8.51).

So, the DE cannot have a EWF and the UH could have 2 EWF (one of could be a two-seat) since it carries 16 fighters.

(J4.465) Squadrons may be reorganized during a scenario so long as all of the above rules are adhered to and so long as any fighter being
transferred between two squadrons is on board the carrier for one full turn. Changing the software in a fighter (to change its squadron)
takes one deck crew action.

You could include the DE fighters in the UH squadron if they spend 1 turn landed on the UH to include them in any of the UH squadrons.

4-
(J4.93) LENDING EW TO SQUADRONS: A given carrier, EWF, MRS, or SWAC can loan the points it is generating to all fighters (of a designated squadron) that are within the appropriate distance and otherwise qualify. Each of the fighters receives all of the loaned points from the loaning unit. See (C10.523).

So. EW fighter can lend to a single squadron.

Marcel

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 11:06 am: Edit

Thanks Marcel,
The "system allowing a carrier to control fighters of another carrier'', (each carrier must pay the 5 points).
is a CO option found in G3.

We are not exactly sure how it operates ?
Does this system immediately allow fighters from 1 carrier to operate in squadrons of another without having to spend time on board to get retooled ?

Cheers
Frank

By Kenneth Humpherys (Pmthecat) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 01:11 pm: Edit

My understanding is thus:
The CO option basically allows you to form an "oversized" squadron made up of fighters of both ships. However, because the UH has 16 fighters, it can have 2 EWF and form one squadron of 10-12 and one "oversized" squadron of 4-6 that also includes the 6 fighters of the DE. Either ship can lend to this squadron but only 1 ship at a time can do so. Only 1 EWF (from the UH) is allowed for the squadron, but can lend to all units in range.

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Frank,

Squadrons are handle by the following rule.

(J4.461) All of the fighters in the squadron must be from the same carrier. The carrier must organize its fighters into the minimum number of squadrons.

(J4.462) No more than twelve fighters can be included in the squadron.

(J15.0) REMOTE-CONTROLLED FIGHTERS does not mention any changes to rules regarding squadron.

Seems that squadron definition is done by physical installation of software done by Deck crew. Remote installation, distributed software or cloud computing does not exist in the 23rd century

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Frank and Kenneth, those options are referring to assuming remote control of fighters under (J15.0) - specifically see (J15.33) and (J15.362), which doesn't affect their squadron status at all.

In the case of the Uhlan, Marcel is correct in that you can add fighters from the escorts to the UH's squadrons via LJ4.465) so long as the fighter in question is a type the UH starts with (J4.461). Indeed, that is the only way.

As a hybrid ship, the DE is a "fully-capable" carrier (J4.623) and thus qualifies under (J15.221) to remotely control three fighters per seeking weapon control channel (meaning it could use two of its three channels to remote all it's fighters). Reorganizing squadrons via (J4.461) to add the DE's fighters to the UH's squadrons doesn't transfer or even allow change of remote control - that's what the 5 point CO of (J15.333) does. So if the UH and DE both pay the 5 points, they can freely take control of each others' remote fitted fighters.

Note that any EH, since they don't carry fighters of their own and thus aren't hybrid ships, can use (J15.332) to use one channel to control one fighter and may purchase the ability to control additional ones via (J15.334) at 3 points per fighter (up to its maximum number of channels).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 02:26 pm: Edit

See (C2.16) for impulse power providing the 31st hex of movement. Beyond that, see (C2.11) and its subsections.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Thank you all for your help !

Cheers
Frank

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, October 22, 2021 - 12:01 am: Edit

Thanks!

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, October 22, 2021 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Question re drone X-Ships.
Do they pay for their drones or is the cost of the drones in the racks included in the X-Ship Bpv ?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, October 22, 2021 - 02:01 pm: Edit

(XFD2.31). Racks come loaded with type-VII drones. Modifying them with different warheads or extended range increases the basic cost, but if you just use your Kzinti ship with no changes to its drone racks there is no adjustment to the ship's BPV for drone speeds or what have you (and you can select what speed the basic type-ViI will use.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, October 22, 2021 - 06:37 pm: Edit

Thank you SPP.

Cheers
Frank

By Fred Werenich (Phredator) on Monday, November 01, 2021 - 03:33 am: Edit

At what range can a ship distinguish an MRS from a general shuttle? eg. if I launch a GAS, MRS and regular shuttle, can he tell which is which?

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Monday, November 01, 2021 - 11:06 am: Edit

Fred, if using (D17.0) in full, then determining the specific class of shuttle is gained at Level H, which is 12 hexes. Otherwise (D17.9) applies and any unit with lock-on can tell what each shuttle is.

By Fred Werenich (Phredator) on Monday, November 01, 2021 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Thank you. One more question concerning tractors and "rotation"

A CR tractors an NCA at range 1. G7.0 The CR elects to continue the tractor into the next turn and the NCA does not contest. G7.124
Can the CR rotate G7.7 the NCA into a different adjacent hex with a more favourable shield and firing arc for the CR? Both ships are size class 3. The CR is 2/3 movement cost while the NCA is 1.
G7.713 seems to imply that the CR can't move the NCA but rather moves itself with the tractor. (which would be acceptable to the CRs purposes)
G7.715 says no rotation can take place if the ships are the same size. "size" is not defined. The ships are the same size class, but the CR is arguably smaller with a 2/3 movement cost and many less internal systems. How do we define "size" for purposes of this rule?
G7.715 also says "Note that if ship B was smaller than ship A, ship A could rotate ship B to a different (adjacent) shield facing (or if ship A was smaller than ship B, it could rotate itself to a different shield facing) even if they were in the same hex"
So as you can see, it seems that maybe you can rotate, maybe you can't. Size is the issue. Is there a way "officially" to answer this question? Is the CR smaller or are the ships the same size for purposes of this rule. Can the CR rotate either itself or the NCA into a more favourable shield facing/firing arc?
The way we arbitrarily handled the matter last night was to assume the CR was smaller and therefore could do the rotation of itself. But we'd like to know the "official correct way".

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Monday, November 01, 2021 - 06:21 pm: Edit

This is a bit more speculative on my part and will require SPP confirmation, but generally speaking, the size of a unit is defined for rules purposes by its size class (R0.6). Movement cost infers a difference in in-universe size/weight, but is only used as such in game when specifically instructed.

For example, see example (G7.36)-B and (G7.373), which both include explicit direction to judge by movement cost within size class for those specific units - but there is no *general* rule that says to do so across the game system.

Further, note (G7.718) which notes bases with positional stabilizers are treated as a "larger size class" and specifically references (G7.713).

Thus, I would say that, barring any language in (G7.7) about using movement cost within a size class to determine relative sizes for that rule, you just compare the size class. Since the CR and OR are both size class 3, (G7.715) is the applicable case and no rotation is possible.

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Tuesday, November 02, 2021 - 09:50 am: Edit

Can a ship use all its transporter in one impulse to do a boarding party raid on the same system. EX. ship in tractor both ships facing shields are down. The tractoring ship lost a trac & has one remaining. The tractored ship has 3 transporter and does a raid with all 3 on the same impulse on the tractor. I assume the 1st role counts and the remaining to units are just wasted.

thank you

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, November 02, 2021 - 05:20 pm: Edit

By Fred Werenich: Going to take some time to research that to be sure I have the right answer.

Seth Shiumansky I Think your very is answered by(D7.84).which puts a limit of one raid per 1/4 Turn per system, It cites an exception, which is fear is. not. a tractor beam but has to do with shuttle. bays.l

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, November 08, 2021 - 01:05 pm: Edit

By Fred Werenich:f

I am afraid that there are no rules for divining size class for tractor rotations by movement cost and the two ships are both size class 3 as you noted, so the ship with the tractor can pull the other ship closer or further away but that is about it (G7.7`5).

By Fred Werenich (Phredator) on Tuesday, November 09, 2021 - 03:32 am: Edit

It's not over till it's over.

In some scenarios it states Side A must disengage by turn 5, or side A arrives turn 3. To some this is unclear.
In some it states X must disengage before start of Turn 4. Or Y arrives impulse 1 turn three. Seems clear enough.

If the scenario says "must disengage by turn 5" or arrives turn 5 or whatever without further detail does this mean by impulse 32 or in EA prior to impulse 1 or something else?

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, November 09, 2021 - 04:09 am: Edit

Fred,

I would think if you "must disengage by turn 5" then it must be no later than turn 4 impulse 32 that you disengage.

"Arriving turn 5" is on turn 5 (EA).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, November 09, 2021 - 10:56 am: Edit

If the scenario says you have to exit by Turn #6 and provides no other data than you have to leave the mpbefore Turn #5.

If the scenario soya you have to enter thump on Turn #3 and does not include something like "set up during energy allocation and enter the map you can disperse your ships over several impulses (maybe you do not want your scout ship to enter on Impulse #1).