Frax is unbalanced. what ship ship can fire 8 p1 & 4 dis @ a 180 arc. with 4 front shields (at 24 but have 4 of them). From what I can tell its not based on a race. No fun story behind them.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, April 30, 2022 - 09:14 pm: Edit

It can do that, but it is basically a Shark with 8xP1 and 2 drone racks (which is generally regarded as the Not Good Shark). But with 1 less P3 in worse arcs. And no double shuttle bay (IIRC).

The FRAX can only fire 2 disruptors in much of FA and RA. And if it is shooting you with all of its guns, it is doing so through a 24 box shield. I mean, maybe it is berserk and no one has ever noticed, but all my experience with the FRAX is that it is, well, ok? Not spectacular, but totally fine? I suspect that most folks' experience with the FRAX is about the same?

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, May 01, 2022 - 10:24 am: Edit

Does anyone have the statistics on the various playtest ships?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, May 01, 2022 - 07:42 pm: Edit

I don't know that they were collected en mass or anything; when Schirmer was collecting data, only the playtest ships that were in regular use were collected, and then probably not many games.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Sunday, May 01, 2022 - 11:36 pm: Edit

I played a series of matches against the Frax, which was the favorite ship of a guy I played on SFBOL for a while. Don't know where he went.

My impression was that it was interesting, but basically just a worse D&D ship relative to the Klingon, Kzinti, or Shark (the latter being probably it's best comp). I mean, sure. The Shark may be the best ship in the tournament, so a ship that is - say - 90-95% as good as the Shark is probably fine.

The "broadside" effect of the arcs was interesting, but not necessarily good for the Frax. It does make it a little harder to tail, since it mostly just needs to yaw to unload 4xOL, rather than needing to HET. On the other hand, it has only "decent" weapons, and no scatter pack.

By John Rigley (Crash) on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 10:26 am: Edit

Add my name to the sapphire

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 11:57 am: Edit

I still agree with Peter and Graham. The Frax isn't going to break anything. It's just another decent disruptor drone ship but slightly worse then all the others by just a smidge. In the end it is probably a ship that lands in the top 40% be my guess and not really overwhelming to anything.

Personally I am much more worried about the Vudar not being played and balanced enough.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 12:02 pm: Edit

I was impressed by the Vudar, because it doesn't have the Fed's problem (one photon firing generally not enough to win, reloading is impossible without getting murdered horribly); of course, my experience was against Peter, so part of the impressiveness was just him being better at SFB than I am (and/or mylack of knowledge about the Vudar).

It is true that ships like the Vudar, not so much the Frax, can be good surprises in tournaments.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 12:09 pm: Edit

I will compile a roster to date tomorrow when I have a little more time.
I am getting some sign ups from SFBOL but I don't see a link under this header? How is that happening?
IF it is magiacally possible to sign up through a sign-up link, please do that... It makes the after party bookkeeping quite a bit more tidy

-Droid

By Greg Thrasher (Greg_T) on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Signed up

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 07:17 am: Edit

Interesting a ship with all P1's and disruptors are FX or RX with 39 power and 4 p3 and 2 drone racks. Im sorry I was wrong before the firing arcs are 270% for 81 & 4 dis. The Shark is broken and is the best ship in the tournament. The Frax is equal to it or better. To make both ships fair to the tournament there turn mode should be D. Just my thought but I am just 1 vote.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 08:26 am: Edit

Like, it has 4 disruptors and 8xP1 and 4xP3 and 2 drone racks. Which is fewer guns than the 8xP1 shark (by virtue of an extra P3). And the 4xP3s on the FRAX are in bad arcs for both use and damage mitigation (4xP3 that are, what, FA/L, FA/R, RA/L, RA/R, so most of the time, there will only be 2 in a given arc, with a maximum of 3 in a given arc instead of most of the time there are 3 in arc, and often there are 5 in arc). It doesn't, IIRC, have a dual shuttle bay. It does, however, have 1 extra power.

Like, I think it certainly has some advantages in the weird arcs and the ability to fight effectively through 4 (24 box) shields instead of only 3 (30 box) shields. But in any instance where the ship is cornered and mugged (which will likely be a lot of instances), it is just worse off than the Shark. And in any instance where it is trying to keep the range open and fight at 8 hexes or so, it is just worse off than the Klingon (no UIM). And in any situation where it is just trying to anchor someone and kill them with drones, it is just worse off than the Kzinti.

Like, I'm not convinced one way or the other that the ship might not be too good (maybe in the hands of someone who really has thought about it, it might be devastating?), but it seems not at all unreasonable, for my money, to throw it in the mix and see how it goes this event--like, I'm sure someone would argue that the Vudar is super good too, and we have seen how that has gone in three events :-)

By Joshua Ivan Driscol (Gfb) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 11:25 am: Edit

I think im signed up.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 01:59 pm: Edit

I think the best ship is the Archeo Tholian, but it takes alot of practice to make it work...
The SHark is great, and pretty easy to fly. The Archeo not so much.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Naw. The best ship is the Andro.

To die in...

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Registered. Paid $10 fee. Yaa!

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Obviously Seth doesn't like it when I beat him in the Shark.

By David Zimdars (Zimdarsdavid) on Tuesday, May 03, 2022 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Registered.

The FRAX fights like a banana peal.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 10:03 am: Edit

what about the other playtest ships?

* Orion CA <-- I assume no
* Hydran Tartar <-- ?
* ISC CM <-- ?
* Jindarian CL <-- I assume no
* Frax CC <-- discussion above
* Flivver CA <-- ?
* Vudar CA <-- has been in play for several tournaments.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 10:44 am: Edit

-The Orion CA is a terrible idea (just too much power)

-The TarTar we used in some Masters event or something a while back. It is horrible.

-ISC CM isn't really different enough from the TCA to justify it, and the TCA is already very good.

-The Jindarian got kicked around for a while, but it seems kind of a one trick pony, and is kind of wildly overmatched vs seeking weapon ships and under matched vs everyone else.

-FRAX is, as noted, being discussed now. I don't think anything would be lost by letting the FRAX fly this event and see how it goes.

-Flivver suffers from no one really understanding the rules, and I think someone demonstrated how the HyperWarp Missiles (or whichever ones they have) are kind of a nightmare.

-Vudar is fine, if hard to use against a lot of opponents, and probably could use some tweaking. But generally speaking (having flown it in 3 events or so), it's generally reasonable.

By Joshua Ivan Driscol (Gfb) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 02:51 pm: Edit

I don't know why folks have a problem with the Orion CA it's the worst of the two Orion spacecraft.

With no oakdisc and the option mount restrictions it's hardly any good at all.

FRAX doesn't scare me it's shields suck and maneuver is different with it.

The Carnivon on the other hand is quite nasty. But it's nowhere near balanced and death bolts are just crazy it takes so much phaser damage to kill them.

By Gregg Dieckhaus (Gdieck) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 03:48 pm: Edit

But what about the Paravian TC

By Timothy Linden (Timlinden) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 03:57 pm: Edit

As pretty well much a die-hard Orion, I'd never fly the TCA. Very little gained for the loss in maneuverability, larger engine loss from doubling, and weaker phaser suite.

The few times I played against the Frax (fun/training games) I was not particularly impressed. Not sure how easy it would actually be to avoid times where you are trading fire outside the L/R arcs, which is rather bad for it. That was a bit of an issue we saw. Presumably good players would manage to avoid that mostly though.

I'd also rather face a Shark over a Klingon. I don't think I have lost to a Shark, whereas the Klingon has the best record ship wise against me. The Shark does have advantages, but I feel in general the Klingon or even the Kzinti has enough of their own advantages that the Shark does not that in most cases they are likely the better choice.

I had a lot of fun playing the Jindarian one year it was allowed in Saturday Patrol, I believe. It does not have enough power - only 30. And it does mostly rely on having to HET, run and maximize it's shuttles in the end game.

I always thought the ISC CM really should have been a CS type. 2 PPD, only rear firing F's. Kinda scary, but has problems with the myopic zone.

Tim Linden

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 04:46 pm: Edit

I don't know Josh- That Orion TCA looks pretty tough to me.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 04:56 pm: Edit

The Orion TCA can have OAKDISC (2F, in the 2012 Tournament book). The Orion TCA has no cloak.
There is also the Borak TCC, and the Peladine CAT play test ships.