Flivver Flipping Fancy Fun.

The hyper drones fire at a target out to range 20 and they will hit (moving as a seeker into target hex in the impulse of fire, it can side slip, but not turn or HET) if not stopped by defensive fire. (they have a max range of 40 hexes, moving 20 hexes an impulse).

By Jason Gray (The_Hood) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 09:26 pm: Edit

How many have we got so far for Sapphire 11?

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Wednesday, May 04, 2022 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Looks like 13 so far from looking at the boards

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 05, 2022 - 07:50 am: Edit

Wayne wrote:
>>The hyper drones fire at a target out to range 20 and they will hit (moving as a seeker into target hex in the impulse of fire, it can side slip, but not turn or HET) if not stopped by defensive fire. (they have a max range of 40 hexes, moving 20 hexes an impulse).>>

IIRC, the big issue with the Flivver was that due to their weird movement rules and the way that the Hyperdrones moved, if you just jiggered it correctly by staying at about 21 hexes over a turn break, you could impact your opponent with 2 waves of Hyperdrones in a single firing cycle, so you could force your opponent to deal with 2 waves when only being able to fire at them with each phaser once. Which was kind of rough, if I remember correctly.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, May 05, 2022 - 09:30 am: Edit

On playtest ships:
Sapphire is the last Rated ace tournament. It's "Sanctioned"... You can get an ace card with a nice little pin for your lapel. I can ask the question about using them here, but one of two things will happen. 1) The answer will be "no", or 2) We won't get an answer.

We can do a Masters for a lark and use all the playtest ships and seldom used/ weaker ships? Just thinking out loud...

Sapphire 11 So far:

Signed up through the signup link:

Geof Clark (Spartan)
John Rigley (CrashandBurn)
Dave Zimdars (AdmiralDZZI)
Peter Bakija (bakija)
Josh Driscol (Sir_GaiusFBaltar)
Jack Taylor (MadJack)
Seth Shimansky (kingzilla)
James Thrasher (Greg_T)
Dan Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy)
Jason Gray (The_Hood)

Signed up on the BBS only:

Graham Cridland (SummaryJudgement)
Ron Brimeyer (captainron)
Gregg Diekhaus (Gregg)? not sure about the call sign here....

So...13! so far.
Not entirely required, but it sure would be nice if all combatants signed up through the link!

Signups are till May 15, if we get 3 more like, right away, we can start earlier

-Droid

By Stephen McCann (Moose) on Thursday, May 05, 2022 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I signed up and paid.

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 01:58 am: Edit

I signed up, I need to email Jean to see what I need to do with the store credit.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 06:31 am: Edit

Hey Peter,

I'd like to challenge what you said before:

"-ISC CM isn't really different enough from the TCA to justify it, and the TCA is already very good."

I agree the ISC TCA is already good, but I think the CM is substantially different, more different than the TKR and TFH are different, for example. Move Cost, Turn mode, plasma arcs, rear F quantities ... it is really a different ship. Maybe the tactics are similar, but execution needs to be different.

I'm game to try the CM, if approved.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 06:33 am: Edit

Hey Andy,

"We can do a Masters for a lark and use all the playtest ships and seldom used/ weaker ships? Just thinking out loud... "

I'm up for it, Masters with all the playtest ships!

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 08:12 am: Edit

Geoff wrote:
>>I agree the ISC TCA is already good, but I think the CM is substantially different, more different than the TKR and TFH are different, for example.>>

Heh. Well, I don't think the TKR (or KE) should exist either :-)

>> Move Cost, Turn mode, plasma arcs, rear F quantities ... it is really a different ship. Maybe the tactics are similar, but execution needs to be different.>>

IIRC, it has about the same guns, but full disclosure, I haven't looked at the SSD if a decade. My memory was that it was about the same as the regular TC, but with the extra 2 rear F torps, and a 2/3 move cost, which is going to result in a ship that is either pretty much just better or pretty much just worse, and neither situation is something that recommends it.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 09:27 am: Edit

Sapphire 11 So far:

Signed up through the signup link:

Geof Clark (Spartan)
John Rigley (CrashandBurn)
Dave Zimdars (AdmiralDZZI)
Peter Bakija (bakija)
Josh Driscol (Sir_GaiusFBaltar)
Jack Taylor (MadJack)
Seth Shimansky (kingzilla)
James Thrasher (Greg_T)
Dan Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy)
Jason Gray (The_Hood)
Graham Cridland (SummaryJudgement)
Ron Brimeyer (captainron)
Steve McCann (Moose)

Signed up on the BBS only:

Gregg Diekhaus (Gregg)? not sure about the call sign here

Up to 14 combatants

-Droid

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 11:47 am: Edit

Sapphire 11 So far:

Signed up through the signup link:

Geof Clark (Spartan)
John Rigley (CrashandBurn)
Dave Zimdars (AdmiralDZZI)
Peter Bakija (bakija)
Josh Driscol (Sir_GaiusFBaltar)
Jack Taylor (MadJack)
Seth Shimansky (kingzilla)
James Thrasher (Greg_T)
Dan Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy)
Jason Gray (The_Hood)
Graham Cridland (SummaryJudgement)
Ron Brimeyer (captainron)
Steve McCann (Moose)
Bill Schoeller (BS)

Signed up on the BBS (or some other means) only:
Dana Madsen (madman)
Gregg Diekhaus (Gregg)? not sure about the call sign here

That's 16 folks.
I will let this percolate and make a tree Monday.
In the meantime everyone make sure please that you've paid your entry fee either by paying it, or applying a credit that you have in the store. sales at starfleet... you'll be dealing with Jean.

THANKS
-Droid

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 05:13 pm: Edit

I wrote:
>>IIRC, it has about the same guns, but full disclosure, I haven't looked at the SSD if a decade. My memory was that it was about the same as the regular TC, but with the extra 2 rear F torps, and a 2/3 move cost, which is going to result in a ship that is either pretty much just better or pretty much just worse, and neither situation is something that recommends it.>>

Yeah, I just went and looked at the SSD of the ISC CM, and it has the exact same armament (PPD, 2xG-Torp, 6xP1, 4xP3), but then 4 rear F torps instead of 2 rear F torps. And the G torps are FP instead of LP/RP. And I think that the PPD doesn't get saved by the F torps (i.e. the PPD is the only thing hit on drone, and it is the only drone hit on the ship). And is 2/3 move with 32 power.

So it has about the same firepower. And slightly different arcs. But more sustained rear arc F power, which will help it a lot in the long run. But the PPD falls off on the first volley of 3 internals. This ship just doesn't seem different enough than the existing ISC TC to justify. Especially as, with the extra F torps and 2/3 move cost, it is probably Just Better. Or possibly Just Worse. But really not at all different enough to warrant existing, for my money. I mean, that's me (and, as noted, I don't think the TKR is different enough from the TFH to justify existing, and I think the TKE is actively bad for the tournament environment due to its inherent need to cloak as much as it does), but I can't see a particularly compelling reason for the ISC CM to exist as a tournament ship. As, again, it is either going to be Just Better than the ISC TC in most instances, or Just Worse.

By Gregg Dieckhaus (Gdieck) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 05:21 pm: Edit

I signed up on the link...
Gregg - I had a credit from adb for the last one that somehow we had too many signups for.

By Ronald J. Brimeyer (Captainron) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 06:06 pm: Edit

I would be up for a masters with just the test ships and the bottom regular ships. Just for the flavor.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Friday, May 06, 2022 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Hey Peter, Guys,

There were a few requests about the Schirmer statistics about the FRAX. --> http://rwschirmer.weebly.com

I did a quick query of these tables to see if we have any FRAX data, but I do not see any.

ship_code | wins_qty | loses_qty | total_qty | wins_pct | loss_pct
-----------+----------+-----------+-----------+----------+----------
KLG | 831 | 819 | 1650 | 0.504 | 0.496
HYD | 817 | 635 | 1452 | 0.563 | 0.437
GRN | 735 | 660 | 1395 | 0.527 | 0.473
WAX | 678 | 530 | 1208 | 0.561 | 0.439
WBS | 622 | 539 | 1161 | 0.536 | 0.464
ZIN | 559 | 580 | 1139 | 0.491 | 0.509
FED | 461 | 676 | 1137 | 0.405 | 0.595
LYR | 468 | 567 | 1035 | 0.452 | 0.548
ISC | 523 | 460 | 983 | 0.532 | 0.468
ORI | 524 | 450 | 974 | 0.538 | 0.462
RFH | 415 | 422 | 837 | 0.496 | 0.504
RKR | 307 | 391 | 698 | 0.440 | 0.560
THA | 290 | 296 | 586 | 0.495 | 0.505
LDR | 190 | 242 | 432 | 0.440 | 0.560
THN | 160 | 186 | 346 | 0.462 | 0.538
RKE | 133 | 189 | 322 | 0.413 | 0.587
SEL | 140 | 177 | 317 | 0.442 | 0.558
AND | 46 | 80 | 126 | 0.365 | 0.635
(18 rows)

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Saturday, May 07, 2022 - 12:22 am: Edit

Maybe a good mix of ships for the Sapphire Star 11 Tournament. Looking forward to observing the battles.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, May 08, 2022 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Hello Guys,

I've been wanting to do some additional aggregates that Mr. Schirmer did not have a chance to do, and now that I started the SQL, I decided to complete it. I've aggregated by the "Food Group" sometimes used in the tournaments of old ... so we can see the relative win percentages of each ship vs the opponents by group:

ship | group | wins_q | loses_q | wins_p | vs_crunch_p | vs_D&D_p | vs_plas_p | vs_wild_p
------+--------+--------+---------+--------+-------------+----------+-----------+-----------
HYD | Crunch | 817 | 635 | 0.563 | 0.615 | 0.520 | 0.548 | 0.587
LYR | Crunch | 468 | 567 | 0.452 | 0.469 | 0.446 | 0.446 | 0.452
LDR | Crunch | 190 | 242 | 0.440 | 0.378 | 0.487 | 0.443 | 0.442
FED | Crunch | 461 | 676 | 0.405 | 0.450 | 0.350 | 0.407 | 0.421
WBS | D&D | 622 | 539 | 0.536 | 0.615 | 0.455 | 0.555 | 0.507
KLG | D&D | 831 | 819 | 0.504 | 0.526 | 0.586 | 0.462 | 0.463
ZIN | D&D | 559 | 580 | 0.491 | 0.542 | 0.474 | 0.446 | 0.511
SEL | D&D | 140 | 177 | 0.442 | 0.453 | 0.382 | 0.462 | 0.468
ISC | Plasma | 523 | 460 | 0.532 | 0.520 | 0.539 | 0.581 | 0.492
GRN | Plasma | 735 | 660 | 0.527 | 0.572 | 0.566 | 0.494 | 0.444
RFH | Plasma | 415 | 422 | 0.496 | 0.531 | 0.518 | 0.479 | 0.435
RKR | Plasma | 307 | 391 | 0.440 | 0.467 | 0.463 | 0.430 | 0.383
RKE | Plasma | 133 | 189 | 0.413 | 0.471 | 0.372 | 0.466 | 0.338
WAX | Wild | 678 | 530 | 0.561 | 0.565 | 0.572 | 0.591 | 0.485
ORI | Wild | 524 | 450 | 0.538 | 0.487 | 0.526 | 0.576 | 0.576
THA | Wild | 290 | 296 | 0.495 | 0.483 | 0.401 | 0.601 | 0.480
THN | Wild | 160 | 186 | 0.462 | 0.442 | 0.490 | 0.481 | 0.407
AND | Wild | 46 | 80 | 0.365 | 0.324 | 0.455 | 0.303 | 0.385
(18 rows)

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 06:32 am: Edit

I am waiting for one ship selection.
Then tree

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 09:24 am: Edit

1.1 The_Hood(KLI) v AdmiralDZZI(Ori PPHB1/ 11g11)

1.2 bakija(GRN) v kingzilla (RKR)

1.3 Spartan(ISC) v captainron (THA)

1.4 BS (KLI) v CrashandBurn (FED)

1.5 Gregg(KLI) v Moose(WAX 11g1)

1.6 Cadet_Stimpy(HYD) v madman(ORI HHg1B/ffgFF)

1.7 Sir_GaiusFBaltar(ZIN) v Greg_T(RKR)

1.8 summaryjudgement(HYD) v MadJack(LYR)

Gents,
Behold!
Deadline for completion of Round 1 is June 4th Midnight EST
There are a few extra days built into Round 1 beyond the customary three weeks to account for Memorial Day weekend US, and because I like rounds to go end on Saturdays. As always, if you need to drop, or can't make the deadline, LMK as soon as possible so I can make arrangements to get the game played.

Good Luck!

_Droid

By Joshua Ivan Driscol (Gfb) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 10:32 am: Edit

Oregon will be represented in round two by the winner of game 1.7.

Good luck old friend your gonna need it.

By Greg Thrasher (Greg_T) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 10:46 am: Edit

May you roll sixes with your disruptors! ;-)

By Graham Cridland (Grahamcridland) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 11:14 am: Edit

This is my first time out in the Hydran; I mostly picked it because I have always liked the ship but don't get to play it a lot because it is my son's favorite. And because I didn't want to play 12 hour games again in the Gorn.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 11:16 am: Edit

Hydran/Lyran is interesting.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 02:31 pm: Edit

>>And because I didn't want to play 12 hour games again in the Gorn.>>

Yaa. I got a TKR. And a rock.