Heh. Nah. I hate playing as Romulans. I also rarely ever bolt centerlined :-)

I don't think not having a Cloak is, in general, a problem for the Gorn. I think an *opponent* having a cloak is a significant problem for the Gorn. Which is why I think Romulans and the Orion (for that and other many reasons) are generally advantaged over the Gorn.

The Romulans [*] can do everything the Gorn can do, but then also have a cloak to get their old lady's car out of a bad area if things go weird or get tricky. Ships with cloaks can cloak on the first turn, making arming a T1 enveloper risky (it doesn't happen a lot, but it happens enough to leave a mark).

[*] The TKE is not generally advantaged over the Gorn due to the 1 torp vs 2 torps. But those games inevitably go for 20+ turns, so are a nightmare for other reasons :-)

By Seth Shimansky (Kingzila) on Wednesday, May 18, 2022 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Kli Hood vs RKR KingZila

Turn one - RKR plans on going 16 for most of the turn and SC to 27 on impulse 28. Hold 2 S torps a ww and SS with 5 on number 6. The Klingon goes moderate fast and we both go towards each other. RKR is trying to launch plasma as close to the end of the turn but that will be a challenge with the Klingon’s speed. RKR slips out and launches SP about impulse 8. Impulse 15 we are 15 hexes apart and RKR launches 2 fake S torps and turns off. Klingon turns into the torps and does the slip out to keeps distance. When the plasma’s are 2 hexes from the Klington the RKR turns in. Klingon fires 4 standard disruptors hitting with 3 on a none reinforce # one shield. Klingon turns off towards the right top of the board and the RKR follows. Klingon fires some phasers on the plasma’s and lets them hit his rear shield on impulse 32. No SP opening on turn one and we are about 10 hexes apart. It looks like his SP is set to open when I get close. I believe the Klingon will swing around towards the top center of the board next turn so the RKR has to go threw his SP drones.

Turn two - The RKR goes speed 26 all turn thinking that if the Klingon runs then I will go for the kill or if he parts then go for the SP. The Klingon goes speed zero all turn with no disruptors loaded. The RKR turns off to kill the SP drones when they launch and the shuttle. The Klingon does a very late turn SC to move towards the Rom. RKR swings around by the end of the turn about 13 hexes apart.

Turn three – Klingon goes speed 4 and the RKR goes speed 21 flying past the Klingon at range 10ish. The last third of the turn the RKR turns off to circle around and the Klingon SC goes towards the RKR late in the turn. No real action.

Turn four – The RKR goes 21 with the last third of the turn to speed 28 and 6 in trac. Klingon goes 14 and fires 4 standard disruptors early in the turn and turns off for a getaway. RKR closes in the Klingon and does a SC to 31 about mid-turn. Klingon launches 2 drones at the RKR, RKR trac 1 and kills the other. On impulse 24 the RKR gets to range 3 one hex off centerline on the Klingon’s # 4 shield. RKR fires on the Klingon with bolts’ S and F and 4 p1 doing 26 damage. The next impulse the RKR moves and the Klingon thinks on a HET. Klingon does not see an option and concedes.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, May 19, 2022 - 04:34 pm: Edit

RKR on a roll!

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, May 19, 2022 - 06:21 pm: Edit

"R"oc"K" and "R"oll?

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 05:40 am: Edit

Hey Peter,

You said "I also rarely ever bolt centerlined :-)" I recall a write up when you did, and that got me thinking about it, so when Bill and I played in the Master 2021 final, GRN vs RKR, this was the main fight, would the RKR give the GRN a centerlined shot? The answer was no, I fought like hell to avoid it. By the time Bill got his shots off, he did end up bolting everything, just on different impulses, and at different shields ... and he got very unlucky, so it did not matter much anyway.

You said - "The Romulans [*] can do everything the Gorn can do" ... this is mostly true, but I'd much rather take a big volley of internals as a Gorn than a Rom. Plus the phasers.

Cloak takes a lot of work to do it right, and the RKR just sucks wind while under, it is tough to move and chew gum ... but yes, I hear you, it has saved my bacon more than once.

By Jason Gray (The_Hood) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 08:09 am: Edit

“Kli TheHood vs RKR KingZila”

You left out the part where half-way through the game you accused me of Playing unfairly and with bad sportsmanship, after which I had little interest in the game.

Jason G (The_Hood)

By Joshua Ivan Driscol (Gfb) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 10:12 am: Edit

Non aggression is always going to be a touchy subject here and the unfortunate truth is that it drives people crazy to not have the ability to use the full range of tactics at their command within the rules.

Going slow shouldn't be an issue because you only get 4 weasels and the other guy doesn't have to engage a star castling player they can defeat the going slow enough to weasel strategy by slowly killing each weasel and then go in for the kill.

It didn't sound like it was the dreaded non agression issue. But the accusation or implication that an opponent is certainly would irritate me.

I wish non agression rules never existed because it's so easy to defeat a ship going speed 4 or zero.

It's just frustrating when in the past I've been called on it too. But the captains need the full range of tactics Available including stopping or slowing down under Speed 10.

And it shouldn't be an issue because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize over running when the enemy goes slow can put you at a disadvantage.

In the past it's caused some people to find better things to do.

It's best when the players have total control of their tactics and it doesn't sound like it went down well. I wasn't there but I'd probably be pissed to if I felt like I couldn't stop and tac and or weasel for 2 short turns I think captains need the autonomy to choose any tactics allowed in the rules.

Good luck to you both in future and peace brothers.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Jason,
I would be very careful about mentioning that. IIRC, in the Origins that you attended in person you had the same issue and that is with people having a set 3 hour game time.

Non aggression is taken because people would use it to get an early lead and then run out the clock. That is why it was added.

By Jason Gray (The_Hood) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Paul,
All my games at Origins finished in good time, and none of my opponents including the then Gold Hat holder Ken Lin (who I played twice in the event with 1 win and 1 loss) had any problem with the games. The issue only came after the event when people from the outside heard about the games.

By Jason Gray (The_Hood) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 06:19 pm: Edit

Joshua,

And what made it even more frustrating was the reason I parked on Turn 2 was because I actually had zero WW armed! I had to bluff that I had them otherwise I would be cornered and have to eat 100 plasma if I stayed moving on Turn 2.

By Jason Gray (The_Hood) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 06:27 pm: Edit

When you start a game with zero Wild Weaasels, and are then accused early in Turn 3 of planning to make the whole game a non-game through non-aggression, I'd rather enjoy my time doing other things.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, May 20, 2022 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Joshua, non-aggression was added when players would play for hours without scratching either ship. It just ruined the tournament and made it impossible to function.

Players would "use the full range of tactics" to mean that they weren't going to fight unless the other player agreed to impose a serious disadvantage on himself. In the classic case, one player parks in the corner with all of his energy in shield reinforcement. The opponent then either
a. stays away to avoid taking the disadvantage
b. uses his power to close the range, fighting at a disadvantage.
c. Moves on or two hexes closer each turn while either fires and the clock ends before they get into combat.

If there had been no non-aggression rules, one of two things would have happened.

1. The tournaments would have been cancelled permanently because such players made them impossible for everyone.

2. When the players got to the end of the time window without hurting each other they would both have been ejected and a wildcard picked to replace them (and they would never be eligible for wild card picking in that event). [We would have had to impose rules that unless you destroyed 50% of the enemy's internal boxes you could not be declared the winner.] That would mean that the finals could be between players who lost almost every game they played but got picked as wild cards.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Saturday, May 21, 2022 - 01:47 am: Edit

I can understand the need for a non aggression rule in timed tournaments (say 3 hour games).

I do not see the SFBOL games being played have any problems with the non aggression. The games usually have enough time to playout, and most of the gamers on SFBOL are veteran players (I have witnessed no real non aggressive play).

all good

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 05:47 am: Edit

Even in SFBOL, not everyone wants to spend 12 or 20 hours flying in circles waiting for the other guy to make a mistake. Is there some reason not to get just it over with?

Infinite length games almost always result in the game being multiple sessions and the tournament schedules (two weeks) rarely survive such things. It's hard enough to get somebody to sync with your calendar once or twice in that time. It is much harder to sync up four or five times in 14 days.

I just do not see any reason to play games that way. In with a will for the thrill of the kill. Get it done. Kill him.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 08:07 am: Edit

I asked us not to go down this rabbit hole. I guess we don’t respect a request from the judge , eh?
There was no non aggression in this case … come to find out Jason had no weasels and stopped to bluff Seth off… don't we all feel silly?
Seth was quick on the trigger mentioning iNon-Agression, and Jason was quick on the trigger giving up on the game and complaining on the BBS .
But no . Let’s go ahead and squabble about it like we atill have a hundred players and having one or two quit wont really hurt us .
SMH

By David Zimdars (Zimdarsdavid) on Sunday, May 22, 2022 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Nearly all SFBOL are experts at SFB. Hypothetically everyone is asymptotically approaching a 50-50 chance of winning — in theory. But I’m certainly not infallible…I tire and I do make mistakes. The number one mistake I see in long games is that one player could force a 50/50 engagement but won’t . They play longer. They could get a 50/50 shot but don’t think it is good enough. Seriously, you think you can outwait a fleet captain? Take the •••• 50/50 shot.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Monday, May 23, 2022 - 08:17 am: Edit

So,
Round 1 is nearly wrapped up. We have results in every game but 1.3, and I know that game is in the works. In addition, half the Round 2 tree is set.

We have a shot of getting Round 2 done before the original June 4 Round 1 deadline.... Now I am embarrassed by my big deadline.
Very well done guys.

Thanks!
-Droid

By Jean Sexton Beddow (Jsexton) on Monday, May 23, 2022 - 11:56 am: Edit

Guys, please give Andy the respect he deserves. He is giving up his chances to play to allow you to have the tournaments while Steven Petrick is out. That is going above and beyond, in my opinion.

[Pulls out the #9 Griswold cast iron skillet]

Andy, you may borrow this and apply it as necessary.

Jean
WebMom

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, May 24, 2022 - 03:25 am: Edit

Hey Andy,

Ron and I played this morning, and plan to play again tomorrow morning ... we are both moving, maneuvering, firing ... multiple passes, last was about range 8. Lots of web and plasma. I think we will finish by 6/4, shields are getting pretty thin for both of us. He has scored 5 hull and a warp, which is repaired as AWR. I have not scored internals yet; two shields are very week. I'll write-up more later on, but game 1.3 progresses!

Regards,
Geof

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, May 24, 2022 - 01:04 pm: Edit

My 2 Quatloos:

I didn't see the current game being discussed, so I offer NO OPINION on what happened in that game in particular - I won't take sides in that specific discussion.

That being said, it is my general opinion that an accusation of non-aggression should be reserved for *egregious* cases. Parking temporarily or even using retrograde temporarily are fine, particularly end-game. Most veteran players I know would agree (I think). So, because making non-aggression accusations generates hard feelings, the accusation be used only when non-aggression gets *really* bad (like SVC's examples, above).

Thus, I'd sure like to see the accusation come up less frequently than it does. On the other hand, it's nearly impossible to have black and white rules on what constitutes non-aggression, so disputes are inevitable.

Because of the needed nebulousness in the non-aggression rules, I also think being the recipient of an accusation of non-aggression shouldn't be taken personally. If you dispute it, then simply dispute it with the judge and move on without treating it like a personal attack.

When you read the non-aggression rules, it's hard to *actually* disqualify a player for non-aggression. So, trust the judge to do their job - you'll get your chance to present your side of the story. If the accusation is made and the judge rules against the accuser, that's egg on *their* face - and you took the high road. If the accusation is made and the judge rules against you, then you still took the high road and should take it as a learning experience not to use that particular strategy.

Again, do not infer anything about what I've said regarding how to view the specific game discussed above. I don't know the details, can't judge for myself, and I don't want to know. I'm talking general principles only.

YMMV

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 24, 2022 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Sounds good Geoff. Thanks for the update.

By Ronald J. Brimeyer (Captainron) on Wednesday, May 25, 2022 - 08:40 pm: Edit

Geoff and I are having way too much fun. 11 turns played over 5 sessions. My shields are 4-1-6-0-12-20
No internals. Geoff's shields are 18-7-2-20-0-30.
17 internals. Lwarp (repaired) Rwarp, Battery (repaired) p-3 F-torp and fluff. I have missed with 5 out of 7 heavy weapons on down shields, but Geoff returned the favor by missing with 3 out of 4 pulses with the PPD.

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Thursday, May 26, 2022 - 10:38 am: Edit

I think things are about to get real up in the #6...

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Monday, May 30, 2022 - 06:32 am: Edit

Hello Guys,

CaptainRon and I had an epic Game 1.3, to wrap up Round1. I think we ended on turn 14.

His last update shows that his ATC has taken a lot of shield damage, and has been able to hit the ISC a few times, generally rolling quite poorly, but scored some internals - the DAC was kind.

To quickly summarize the rest of the game, the ISC was generally parked in the middle of the map, sometimes stopped, or moving 8 forward, 8 reverse. ISC had all shuttles out as fighters, generally in orbit, one was crippled. ATC was hiding along the southern edge of the map, to rearm and prepare for another strike. He was good at casting snares to block fire, but there were a few times that the ISC envelopers were able to dodge the web, and once in particular caused him to emer decel and WW. The ATC tried a strike at range 13 with the fist, 3xDISR, 7xph-1s, but scored only 5 shield points after reinforcement on the 7-box #2. ISC was slowly repairing systems, and boxes on the #1, preparing for the next Tholian close range attack run, and looking for a clean PPD shot.

After the emer, ATC builds up speed over several turns, casts a number of W-shaped webs which give the ISC only fleeting looks at his shields, maybe range 9 ... not good enough for a PPD shot before he ducks back into the web. The ISC is trying to get another EPT to land, but the cast webs are much more effective than the snares. Eventually the Tholian traps the turn 12 EPT, the turn 13 EPT, and swings around at speed 19-20, and eventually gets up to high speed and comes through the web in another attack run.

On turn 14, the ISC had been moving 8 forward, then 4 (had recovered the crippled shuttle and armed a WW ...), then 0 for eight imps, and had a speed change coming up to 8 reserve. The Tholian was using his last good shield, the 20 box #6, and the ISC was using the 30 box #6 (with 14 power in general). as the Tholian punches through his web, there is a dramatic impulse 14.24, then the Tholian announces speed 30, and the ISC announces -9, so the ISC is able to fire the PPD and keep the Tholian at range 4+ for four impulses, and on the 4th pulse at range 4, adds 6xph-1s plus 3xph-3s from shuttles now at range 2. This takes down the shield and does enough internals to get through the hull and get all batteries. The Tholian turns in to centerline and come to close range, with a down #1. ISC is able to launch a rear F, but is is not lined up well, and will start circling his ship. On impulse 29 or so the ISC announces emer, thinking to try to get a Tac in order to keep the Tholian on the strong #6. Actually, this was a flawed strategy, since I did not have reserve impulse ... I had allocated impulse for a tac while at speed 0, but this was lost with the emer!

As the Tholian comes to range 2, the ISC uses the remaining 4 batteries to attempt a tractor, and is successful with 2 pts. Ron concedes at that point, probably gonna take the F torp on some weak shield, and won't really be able to get on a weak shield for the range 1 punishment strike, while the ISC phasers will cycle first, and there will be two more plasma available, rear F & quickload (... Tholian had two WW left ...)

Great Game, Ron! Thanks!

By Andy Koch (Droid) on Tuesday, May 31, 2022 - 07:26 am: Edit

Well done guys...

Any resistance to making the deadline for Round 2 6/13? I had a little extra time built in Round 1, but it doesn't seem like we will need it...

Thanks
-Droid