This is the place to discuss the Paravians' tactics.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:50 pm: Edit

So based on what I read in Dale's other topics some people think the QWT isn't the best energy torp seeker? Somehow its lack of a bolt function makes plasma torps better?

Say it isn't so.

And what do the chickens need to compete? An EW gizmo?

Some means to speed up the torps?

From what I read, in Omega they should be pretty good given the relative lack of seeking weapons there...

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 01:07 pm: Edit

It ain't so. The QWT is a very good weapon. It does suffer a bit, tactically, due to the lack of direct-fire option. That's okay. They fire every turn. They kind of hit like an F-torp but have the range of an S- or R-torp. Personally, I like 'em.

If they were going to be competing in the Y180s against Alpha races, I'd say some kind of "sabot" option to give them faster torps would be good. Don't know that that's needed for Omega.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Making a Paravian TC, the main problem I found was the FA firing arc. Once you lose the front shield, you're in big trouble. So I proposed a refit to FP and that helps quite a lot. Not quite enough against crunchy races, but it solves that specific problem.

A Paravian is very easy to fly. On the face of it, I expected it to be like a plasma Klingon, but it isn't. The QWT can be held (even if oveloaded), it has a good range and is back next turn so you're never overcommitting yourself.

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 07:08 am: Edit

Were there Paravians in Omega? I don't remember seeing them there.

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 07:52 am: Edit

Yeah they rule the roost in Omega sector. Look at the time line and the map and you'll find the chickens.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 12:08 pm: Edit

John Smith:

Bruce Graw (the evil power behind the Omega Octant) established the concept that there were Paravians in Omega. On the maps they are in the upper left side as you are looking at them. They start as just a little three hex empire on the Omega #1 and Omega #2 maps, then go to town starting with the Omega #3 map. They are otherwise undefined (but are probably NOT the Paravians that appeared in Captain's Log #28).

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 04:34 pm: Edit

The paravian Jihad...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 04:18 pm: Edit

And things get really interesting for the Paravians in the Seventh Cycle (Y205-221, after the Andromedans and Souldra are gone).

In that Cycle, they find the old Ymatrian homeworld (where the locals think of the Paravians as angels... oops) turn the planet into a slave state, use the bear-chaps as their boarding parties, and take them (and possibly some of the same antiproton weaponry that the Worb had salvaged from Ymatrian space back in the day) to launch savage raids from the far side of Trobrin space (where thanks to a secret treaty, they can pass through unmolested).


Indeed, the Y210 map on the back of Omega 5 shows how much space the Paravians were controlling less than a decade after the Invasions - though bear in mind that much of that space was ravaged by the Andromedans and Souldra, and might not be quite as productive EP-wise as it might otherwise have been...


(There's an interesting bit of data in the Omega timeline for Y219, but it might not be valid as-is at present.)

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Where do you get all this information from? I thought there was no "history" after Y205?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 12:30 am: Edit

The Omega Master Rulebook.


The published history for Omega goes as far as Y221 (the end of the Seventh Cycle) and can be found there.


Also, Module Omega 5, which re-prints the Seventh Cycle history (which begins in Y205) for Omega, has a Y210 map of the Omega Octant on the back cover.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 02:58 pm: Edit

Not sure if it should be here or in the Early Years thread, but how well do the Y-era Paravian ships from Y1 and Y2 fly?

What kind of tactics might you use with them against the Gorns and Romulans, or perhaps if going further afield and taking on, say, the ISC, Feds, Orions or other Alpha Y-ships?

(Indeed, if you tried to run a battle-of-the-no-longer-in-Alpha-club, how interesting can a Paravian-Carnivon fight get?)

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:13 am: Edit

EY Paravians fly kinda like....plasma Klinks.

The weird engine rule rarely comes into play.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 11:34 pm: Edit

I was wondering about the engine thing - reminded me of the Probr, but then I dunno if they often run into problems with their engines either.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 01:51 am: Edit

The Probr will frequently have to remember the special engine rule. But most Probr ships are so manueverable that reducing it won't matter. Okay, nimble Probrs will be badly affected but I don't recall any.

Paravians won't have much of a ship left when one engine is completely destroyed. Restrictions in turning don't matter when the tactics are reduced to running away.

I think it would require playing the "Surprise Reversed" with a PPD ship as the active opponent and enough luck to win 3 lotteries to have a chance of having Paravian ships with most weapons but suffering the lost warp engine manuever restrictions.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, June 05, 2010 - 12:54 am: Edit

Is that vulnerability something carried over into the CL28 Paravian fleet, too - or are their TL12 ships closer to the Probr in terms of taking the, erm, heat engine-wise?

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, October 12, 2013 - 05:45 pm: Edit

One thing I have noted in other discussions is how, when operating in joint Coalition task forces, the Klingons and Romulans seem to be an awkward pairing, even in cases where the latter are using Kestrels.

The way I read it, the use of multi-turn plasma coupled with the cloak makes it harder for the Romulans to align their tactics with those of a navy that depends on the single-turn disruptor/drone dynamic. (Which can be a nuisance for the Klingons, since they are the ones left to soak up enemy fire while the Romulans reload under cloak.)

Is this the same sort of issue that might negatively effect "coalition" operations involving the "Mapsheet P" Paravians from C6 and their Romulan co-belligerents? Do the differences between the cloak/plasma template relied upon by the one side, and the very different tactics required to make the most of the QWT on the other, leave the Paravians on the same raw end of the deal as the Klingons?

(Ironically, I wonder if the Klingons and Paravians might work better alongside each other than either do with their Romulan go-betweens.)


On the other hand, it seems that, on the face of things, the Gorns and ISC have much more complementary fleet doctrines, which might be a factor in any conflicts involving these four powers. (Simply put, the ability of the "Alliance" to fight more effectively in tendem might make life that much harder for the "Coalition", at least in trying to secure the key flashpoint surrounding Circle Trigon.)

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Wednesday, January 17, 2018 - 06:25 pm: Edit

I am playing the Paravians in a campaign ran by Matt (Neonpico on SFBOL). We are using a his campaign engine and doing the battles on SFBOL.

First i find the Paravians very easy and fun to fly. Good turn mode and all ships have the same turn mode. Making mixed size class groups easy to maneuver as a group. There are power issues when overloading the QWTs but then were is there not on a Direct fire ship when overloading.

Power is the main difference i find when playing the Paravians vs plasma ships. A Gorn CA uses 4 pts to hold 2 type S torps. The Paravian CA 8pts to load 4 QWTs. More if overloading some are all of the QWTs. The cost is the same 8pts each if the last turn of arming for the S torps. That is still with out overloads for the QWTs. A Gorn ship is going to be faster then the Paravians ships and have more power for ECM. The Paravians can of course not load all of the QWTs to save power for speed to out run plasma.

The QWT is a interesting weapon. Fires every turn power use like a Disrupter. Seeks like a plasma and hits like a single PPD pulse. With 3 built in ECM forces a ship to use ECCM when firing at the QWTs are have a 1 shift.

The fact that it takes 6 damage to kill the splash elements then 11 more to kill a standard QWT 15 more for the overload and no reduction in damage except the loss of the splash. Only the full amount destroying the QWT. This makes it very hard to remove the QWTs. Add the long range out to 30 moves and it is a good bet you will do some damage to a ship

The down size is the QWTs do not have the crunch power of Plasma Torps. It takes a lot of hits to knock down shields. The splash helps with that. In a couple of battles after 3 turns are in some cases 2 turns. The targeted ships have weak shields across 3 are 4 arcs.

This means that some ships with crunch type fire power will charge thru the QWTs and smash the Paravians. Use of overloads helps to stop a overrun are at least make them pay. 4 Over loaded QWTs will take down a shield. (4-40-4 moves 0-7 4-28-4 moves 8-14)

I find that launching the QWTs if groups of 6 is very effective. Not only for the damage but a single ship in the battle force can use ECCM when guiding the QWTs. Just as any plasma force can it is a bit harder to do. Having each flight of 6 QWTs picked up by the guiding ship after each hit.

Well I will try and add a synopsis of the current battle i am playing.

A Paravian CA and FF with the APR refit. Vs a Gorn CDD and 2 HDD. (No plus refit). The Gorns are protecting a Convoy of 3 FTs that are slowed due to there sensitive cargo.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Wednesday, March 07, 2018 - 06:11 pm: Edit

I have been told the QWT is to powerful and i am interested in what others think about that.

To compare the QWT to a Plasma Torpedo.
First big thing is arming time. The QWT is armed and fired every turn. The Plasma Torp is every three turns.
Power is next at 2 points per QWT plus 2 warp if overloading. 1 are 2 points to hold. Plasma Torps depend on size. F 1+1+2 0hold G 2+2+3 1hold S 2+2+4 2hold.

Next damage.. QWT 7-1 over the range brackets out to 30 moves. Half again more for overloads. 12 9. max range 14, Full table in C6. Plasma Torps F doing 20 out to 5 15 out to 10 dying at 15. G torp 20 out to 10 15 out to 15 dying at 20 moves. S torps. 30 out to 10 22 out to 15 15 out to 20 dying out to 25.

Now a Paravian CA has 4 QWTs a Plasma Armed CA 2 G upgraded to S swivels. Better firing arcs for the Plasma. QWTs 24 out to 14 20 to 21. 16 to 26. Out to 30. Overloads 48 to 7 36 to 14. (easy to out run) Plasma G 40 out to 10 30 at 15. The S 60 out to 10 44 out to 15 30 out to 20. Pure plasma ships will add Plasma Fs as well ISC has the PPD.

I see the Plasma has a much bigger crunch factor. The QWT will wear down a ships shields over several turns.

In the campaign the problem they are talking about is masses of QWTs each turn. A pair of DWs and a CA launch 10 QWTs a turn. I have forces that Launch 15 QWTs a turn. 15-45-15 on one ship at 15 to 21 moves. Getting them all on the same ship same shield tough. Also putting them all on one ship means it will turn and run them out are WW. The rest of the ships can close and kill. However that many QWTs would translate to 6 to 8 S torps. 15*6 90 damage if 8 even more. Better Crunch.

Also instead of Overloads for the QWT the Plasma has PPTs usable as a ECP. Shotgun and enveloping as well as Bolting Direct fire option.

So any one else want to way in on this?

By Josh Saxton (Blackwind) on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 03:40 am: Edit

I think it's mostly inexperience against them. It's a seeking weapon with the weakness of the plasma, and none of it's strengths, can't bolt, shotgun, or envelop. The only slight advantage it has is that it does much better damage per energy output when you compare it to a disruptor. For 2 points at r15 your getting 5 points of total damage vs 3 points but at least you get to choose which shield you get to take it on. Trade off for the disruptor where opponent chooses when it fires. It does have the power draw of a DF ship versus big plasma so you can't maneuver the same.

I think the frustration is mostly due to standard plasma tactics failing. This weapon acts like a plasma but isn't and shouldn't be treated as such. It's a weapon you dance with and it's a superior dance partner to other weapons you'd dance with (disruptors/PPD) like any other situation where your opponent dances you have to decide when to eat the damage and charge in on your opponent with your superior firepower. If you aren't willing to take internals, and spend power trying to destroy them you're playing the game the Paravian player wants you to. It's similar to drones, spend time phasering them down and lose focus on the ship it'll cost ya. Learning when to eat damage and how to use EW effectively would be the key I'd assume. Not that I'm good at either of those things.

That's my take anyways, as a newish player take it with a grain of salt.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 05:55 am: Edit

I am glad some one has replied in this thread. I am trying to find out more on the Paravians.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 06:22 am: Edit

Yes , I can agree with Josh Saxton.

Gregory and I had a 375BPV simulator battle Paravians vs Gorn. The Gorns closed the range under ECM at high speed and took shield damage as the squadron of three BDD and one BDG closed in.
The Gorn return fire then destroyed one of the Paravian DWs. Paravian squadron was one CW and two DWs.
(The battle was on a good size fixed map, it took two turns to get close to the Paravian Squadron)

By Josh Saxton (Blackwind) on Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 06:37 am: Edit

Anytime Greg.

Honestly there are other ways to attack the issue of mass firing in fleet battles. I thought of this after I responded. Given your example one could either use a scout or mass labs say at R4 target the seekers and if they were targeted on one ship simply have that ship run away while the rest of the fleet advances. With only phasers defending that allows one to charge in relatively unopposed. This is probably just one of many ideas. I'm sure someone with more experience or a better handle on tactics could come up with other ways.

No one is immune to being frustrated myself included and it's easy for me (unaffected person) to come up with a counter. I'm sure once some time passes the new pretty thing won't seem so daunting to anyone of us.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 07:54 am: Edit

To add to the scenario (375BPV simulator battle) between myself (gorn) and Gregory's (Paravian).

I played the scenario as a raid (a hit and run) if we had continued the scenario then both sides would of seen more destroyed or crippled ships by the battles end.

A good battle, one of the first I have had at squadron level vs the Paravians.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandor) on Thursday, March 22, 2018 - 05:08 pm: Edit

I enjoyed it myself as well. I have been enjoying the battles I have played in SFBOL for the campaign that Matt is running.

In most cases i have been playing to win the battle by the victory conditions and trying not to lose ships. While trying to cripple kill the other players.

I have noticed that it is hard to kill a Ship with the QWTs. Rip up the shields yes even get some internals. The ships tend to retreat at that point. Also enough QWTs tend to push ships around the map.

Most of the time I am avoiding the Gorn plasma at the same time.