Archive through October 06, 2022
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Paravian Tactics (Alpha and Omega):
Archive through October 06, 2022
Was Talking to some one on SFBOL about the QWTs.
When fighting against them and thinking damage in a fleet battle. They arm same as a Disrupter. 2 for standard and 4 for overload and with warp needed for the overload. After 15b moves the QWT does 1-3-1. The Disrupter 3 on 1-4. QWTs do not have built in ECCM. So a ECM shift can help.
So 3 Klingon D7s with 12 Disr and 9ph1. can knock in a shield at range 15. 3 Paravian CAs with 12 QWTs after 15 moves does, 36 plus splash takes down a shield and some of that can be mitigated by phaser fire or ECM. Also getting all that on one shield.
Yes a fleet sized group of QWTs are nasty. So is a fleet of Klingons with Disrupters and phasers. They can cripple a DD or blow up a frigate. Saw it happen in a battle.
So just some thoughts,
One important function of QWT's is to keep the enemy from closing (getting to Overload Range). Instead of trying to have your QWT's travel 15 hexes to smash down the enemy's shield, you can launch your QWT's as a Deterrent against an opponent whose overall strategy depends on them closing in on you. They will either have to Eat the Wave of QWT's, Waste Phasers on Them, or Turn Away.
QWT's lack Crunch Power (like the Disruptor compared to the Photon). Their game is, therefore, prone to be a Long Term Strategy of Wearing the Opponent Down. This automatically leads to the formation of the Counter-Strategy of rushing the Paravian to squash him at Close Range before this can happen. A Gorn or Romulan can deter this tactic with 100 points of Plasma. The Paravian CA is only going to be able to generate 40 points plus splash.
The enemy can also use WW's to distract a Wave of incoming QWT's, whereas this cannot be done against Disruptors.
Lastly, I would imagine that Fleet Paravian Tactics would be somewhat similar to ISC Tactics as the QWT's have a Splash Effect like the PPD. Obviously, one is Direct Fire and the other is a Seeking Weapon, so the Tactics would need to be modified accordingly. The Overrall Goal is to Take Maximum Advantage of that unique Splash Effect (the wearing down of adjacent shields).
Our next session may involve Paravian vs. Romulan in year 175. Each side will have 150 BPV per player with the total points depending on how many people show up.
I'll be on the Paravian side for sure. I played them in one Y-Era scenario vs. Gorn but the year was so early that the Gorn could only bolt. It was something of a cake walk because it was easy to stay out of range. I would like to play them again to see how they fare in a more balance scenario.
My concern is damage output. QWTs just aren't much of a threat when you can pick which shields each volley hits. They have to be massed to do any real damage but that means they're easier to predict. The rest of the group prefer fixed maps which makes dancing around plasma even harder.
The Paravian ships also feel somewhat overpriced.
Thoughts on tactics?
QWTs do fine if you think of them as Disruptors and realize you have to hit the same shield several times.
Why do the modern Paravians have so many impulse engines and no AWR? Did an early iteration of the rules use impulse for overloads? Or are they just weird ship designers?
No more so than the "lost empire" Carnivons, who have no AWRs either despite having one direct-fire heavy weapon that requires warp power to arm and another one that requires warp power to overload.
So far as I recall (apologies if I'm mistaken on this), the quantum wave torpedo rules for the "Stellar Shadows" Paravians in SSJ2/CL28 had the same warp power requirement for overloads that the QWTs for the "lost empire" Paravians in Module C6 have at present.
Also, for an empire whose ships are for the most part capable of landing on planets, it would make a certain kind of sense to provide a greater degree of redundancy for a system (impulse) that can be used for such a purpose.
Plus, the lack of AWRs is less of an issue for the Omega-Paravian antiproton variants previewed in Captain's Log #54, as (despite the use of the word "antiproton") the weapons swapped in on those variants can be armed from any power source.
Ginger, I have played the Paravians some. I like the way they play. They are easy to fly. I never thought about all the extra Imp engines.
Most Alpha heavy cruisers have 4 imp. The Klingons have an extra EMR imp. The Paravian CA has 6 imp. The CC 8 imp. The APR refit adds 2 APR. 30 warp 6imp 2apr. 38 power CA 40 power CC.
Klingons have extra APR. The Gorns extra warp. So what benefit is extra IMP?
Powering standard QWTs. The Paravian Ca 4 for housekeeping 8 for standard QWTs. 12 power max speed 26. Overload and speed 18 max. Even with AWR instead of the extra IMP. You would still be eating into warp power. I do not see a benefit for Overloading QWTS. Like there is for photons. (as photons need warp power for all arming)
However 6 imp can have a ship erratic. Saving warp power for speed. Launch all QWTS imp32 or imp 24. run away. The other player charges thru. Do not arm QWTS RUN go erratic with IMP? On the next turn?
Or could just be something to make the Birds a little different 
I was doing some investigation last night. Every ship I looked at could do at least speed 16 with full overloads. The DNL can do 24. The BCH can also do 24 if it only overloads 4 of its 5 QWTs.
I'm looking forward to dancing with them, though I think I'll fare poorly against many races. Big plasma will be an exercise in futility unless we play with a fixed map. Disruptors narrow salvoed will hurt more because the enemy can avoid the torps fairly easily. Other races like feds and fusion hydrans will be screwed.
My thinking is:
Strengths
The biggest advantage of the QWT is the long range on overloads. you can launch them at any range and an opponent trying to close has to take a good chunk of damage. you can almost certainly move at high speed and overload several of them. Some samples:
DN: 59 power can overload 6 torps and go speed 19 or overload only 5 and go speed 22
CA: 38 power can overload 4 torps and go speed 18 or overload only 3 and go speed 22
CL: 27 power can overload 3 torps and go speed 18 or overload only 2 and go speed 25
DD: 21 power can overload 2 torps and go speed 21
Without overloads most ships can go at least speed 27.
You also have a great turn mode. Even the DN has a turn mode of C. You'll need it due to the horrible FA arcs on the QWTs.
Weaknesses
Low direct firepower. FH, LS, and RS phasers are hard to bring to bear and get any real crunch power though you do have more of them than even a Gorn of comparable size.
Lack of internals. You take damage as badly as or orse than an Orion. you cannot afford to get hit.
vs. Short Range Races
Keep your speed high and dance with overloads. If they want to get close they have to eat them. A single QWT at range 8-14 does 7 damage plus splash. The various ships mostly have enough firepower to almost drop a shield on a comparable ship of their size class. If they get hit at a range 7 or less they take 10 per QWT. That's definitely enough to drop shields.
When they get close to their optimal range you skip loading for a turn or two and hightail it out of there so you can do it all again. You'll need multiple volleys to hit in order to soften them up enough. Don't try to close on their rearm turn. Your lack of direct fire weapons means you'll probably eat more damage than you deal.
Absolutely launch at Hydran fighters. QWTs take 6 gatling pulses to phaser down meaning 3 fighters per 2 torps. You'll cripple the fighters one by one unless severely outnumbered. If you're outnumbered you won't have much choice but to dance away from them and try to pick them off with phasers. FH and LS/RS phasers mean you can bring enough to hurt a fighter to bear. Two if they try to catch you with booster packs turned on.
vs. Dancers
Charge in as fast as possible and anchor them. If they let you maintain the tractor and brick then you're probably in trouble. You just don't have the crunch power of other races.
Most Paravian ships can do 31 with no QWTs loaded and still have a fair amount left over for tractors. For instance the CA can have 3 in tractors and 5 batteries. The DNH can have 6 and 8 batteries.
vs. Drones
If they're speed 20 drones then keep your speed up, go around them, and treat it like you're facing dancers. If they're speed 32 then go fast and use QWTs for drone defense. Your poor QWT arc is going to make this difficult but you don't have the phasers to do much else. The hope is that you eventually run them out of drones and get to charge in.
vs. Big Plasma
I have no clue how you win this one. Their larger seeking weapons mean they don't have to enter your overload range. Your lack of bolts mean you can't plow though plasma and fire at distance. You pretty much have to get up close and personal. Maybe if you can catch them on their reload turn but if they're spacing out their plasmas instead of launching them all at once then you'll have a hard time doing that. A floating map means you'll never hit. They'll need to boltbut you can't return the favor.
vs. ISC
Not sure. I don't have a lot of experience playing as or facing them. It looks like you might fare ok but they have plasma to deter an anchor and long range PPDs to keep from having to get close. I guess it depends on who is better at sandpapering the shields. The Paravians can do it faster but they have to actually reach their opponent with the QWTs. I think you don't want to overload in this fight.
vs. Andromedans
Doesn't look good. You don't have a lot of crunch power so will spend a lot of time filling their panels for them. They have the speed to be able to decide hen and where they get hit by them.
Omega
No clue. I've only ever done one Omega battle. I played the butterflies and think you'll lose that battle hard. They can go fast and dance from massive range. You'll never get close enough to hit them.
Electronic Warfare
QWTs are pretty resilient to EW. Anything less than a shift of 3 can only take out the splash damage. Barring scouts you should only need 2 batteries to overcome someone running full defense on erratics, giving you a power advantage. They're likely to know this and not bother.
Most of this has been focused on floating maps. I think Paravians are in big trouble on a fixed map. They won't be able to dance for long and don't have the crunch power to take advantage of cornering someone. I don't have a lot of experience with fixed maps so that could be way off the mark.
Thoughts?
I really like them but I'm not sure they're really up to snuff compared to other races. More direct firepower would be a plus. Perhaps a way to bolt the QWTs. 1/2 the primary damage and no overloads over range 8 would give them a shot. Even still you'd only do 5 damage per overload. You take more than that in return but might be able to dance in and out. Might
Fighting the Gorns. Clase just outside range 10 launch standard QWTs. Turn out and away. You run out his plasma. If the Gorn holds and runs thru Your QWTs that can be a problem. You can of course fire a stack Of QWTs turn 1 around imp 24. Then fire anther stack next turn If the Gorn tries to run thru the first set.
Best tactic in all cases is fire a set of QWTs late in the turn at around range 15-21. Next turn Load half or 1 quarter of your QWTs as overload rest standard. If He runs thru the first set. Fire the second and run away.
If He turns to run out the first set, follow and launch near the end of the turn. On a fixed map You will have them along the wall with overloads inbound.
The first set will still do some damage out to 22-26 moves even out to 30. It still takes 17 to take out 1 point of damage . Unlike a Plasma torp.
Does he really want to run thru two sets of torps to get to you? With the splash element it gets harder to turn a fresh shield to the second wave.
turn 1 1 overload 3 standard for the CA (2 overloads 3 standards for the CC) Range 15-21. If run thru 4-19-4 (5-26-5) Second wave hits with no reinforcement.
hard to set up but nasty if it works.
Sounds good. I'm looking forward to testing these theories out.
Which books or captain's logs have alpha sector Paravian info other than C6?
Y2 comes to mind as I just bought it in part because of the birbs.
Have you checked the master index table linked from the Captain’s Log page on the main site?
I didn't know it existed. Thank!
Play test Paravians are presented in P6. This is unnecessary as whatever is there was replaced by Y1. These are Early Years ships.
Paravians were formally introduced in Y1. They get additions, like everyone else, in Y2 and Y3. This is all for the Early Years.
A version of them existing in the General War era is presented in CL28.
Then, of course, there is C6. These are also General War era, and are a completely different approach from CL28.
Thanks! What are the CL28 ones like? Are they worth buying the log for?
The "Stellar Shadows" Paravians in SSJ2/CL28 are closer to their Early Years forebears; both in terms of being "generalists" (or "pseudo-pirates") in their internal layout, as well as having the same Turn Mode issues as their W- and Y-era counterparts.
The "lost empire" Paravians were intended to show a transition from "pseudo-pirates" into a more "traditional" empire. Thus, each mission variant is more specialised for the required role in terms of internal layout. Plus, it was decided that, this time around, the Paravians were assumed to have resolved the Turn Mode issue by the time they began to field their first "modern" warships.
The C6 Paravians are by now the "default" option for use in the Alpha Octant - not least in terms of being converted over to Federation Commander or over to Federation and Empire. But of course, if you felt the need to buy a copy of SSJ2/CL28 if only for the sake of completeness, that is entirely up to you...
One aspect which might be worthy of note, in either Galactic octant, is which Size Class of ship the Paravians are flying, and/or flying against.
In the Alpha Octant, plasma-S torpedoes and PPDs are restricted to Size Class 3 and above; the same is true for heavy implosion torpedoes (but not for implosion bolts) over in the Omega Octant; while Andromedan heavy TR beams follow suit on both sides of the Alpha/Omega Void.
So, for a Size Class 4 QWT-armed Paravian ship dealing with opponents of an equivalent weight class, there is much less of an imbalance in terms of their nearest neighbours' seeking weapon firepower (and BPV count) relative to that seen with Size Class 3 or Size Class 2 warships.
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Although, one thing the Omega-Paravians might find with their antiproton variants in CL54 is that, due to the restrictions preventing the antiproton lance from being (safely) installed on ships smaller than Size Class 3, such variants of Size Class 4 were less effective - or, at least, were less power-efficient - than their larger counterparts.
But then, said efficiencies with larger antiproton variants only apply if they can line their opponents up along the "hex row of death", which can be a challenge in and of itself...
Thanks! I'll skip the CL for now and stick with C6 for our upcoming Admiral's Game. I'm the attacker. I don't know what the defending race is yet. I'll be back here to share some observations as they come along.
Also, bear in mind that, as noted in the 2012 version of the SFB Electronic Master Rulebook, (YFQ1.14) permits FA-mounted Early Years QWTs to be launched out of the #1, #2, and #6 shield facings- which, as noted by SPP elsewhere on the BBS, means the "modern" QWT in Module C6 can do the same also.
Which, presumably, would be the #3, #4, and #5 shield facings for RA-mounted QWTs on the Paravian battleship, or for QWTs installed in the RA option mounts on Paravian or Orion heavy war destroyers.
Was there ever a confusion that FA didn't mean shields #1, 2, and 6?
There was, yes.
Any thoughts on facing Hydrans in a fleet battle on a fixed map? I think I'm destined to get annihilated by being unable to dance against fusions. There's a battle station in the middle of the map and the ships start there so I can't even really get away or keep the distance open. We start at range 24 at the most and I'm on the edge of the map with nowhere to hide.
We'll likely have full fleets with 11 or 12 ships each, including some of my carriers with TCs and some of his carriers with St-2s. Luckily the 12 base fighters have to be Class I so no St-2s but they can still have gatlings for up close or fusions for long range sniping.
I'm thinking to move as fast as possible while launching overloads at a few ships. The aim will be to cripple them. If his fighters are massed then I'll try to destroy one or two of the ships instead, but I expect him to lead with ships and have the fighters come in behind.
I'll give up a frigate and/or a destroyer to put t-bombs in and around his fighters and take out as many as possible. It's The Admiral's Game so he'll be limited to 36 replacements per turn. If I can kill more than that in our 8 battles then I can slowly win an attrition war.
But there will always be the problem with fixed maps vs. fusions. Future battles will include star bases for even more firepower on his end. And if I don't take out a BATS then it has a minefield on the next attempt. 
I'm going to be honest here (as a Hydran player): this is *not* a good matchup for the Paravians. Hydran gatlings are going to eat up your QWTs, essentially leaving you your phasers versus their fusions, hellbores, and non-gatling phasers. It's...yeah, just not a good fight for the Paravians.
Keeping your speed up, as you noted, may at least keep you clear of close-range Stingers (though remember, concerted Stinger fire from range ten is still nasty), but there's nothing to stop their fusion ships from charging up with fusions uncharged on turn 1 and hitting you with overloads on turn 2 (and their hellbore ships from taking advantage of downed shields from range). And even then, you have a base to bust.
Since you have a 12-ship fleet, take full advantage of your two allowable scout slots with a pair of War Cruiser Scouts, and use them for ECM lending; fusions aren't terribly forgiving of shifts, and you may get lucky and shift some shots to clean misses even at close range. Ships' batteries can be used for EW escalation as needed. And yes, your carriers should be lending to your TC squadrons to frustrate efforts by Stingers to murder them before they can put their QWTs to best use.
As a note? I'd frankly insist on a quadruple map for a base defense battle; there's just not enough room on a standard map, with the base centered on it, to do it right.