That makes sense.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, October 05, 2022 - 07:26 pm: Edit

Question re ESG interaction.
Two R3 ESG's just form having a Death Bolt at R3 and 2 Death Bolts at R4.
All DB have extra armor requiring 13 points to destroy it.
The ship and DB's all move the next imp.

The ship moves 1st resulting in the R3 DB to jump the ESG's and having the 2 R4 DB's now at R3.
At this point, we applied G23.571 and the DB at R3 that jumped taking 13 damage [and destroying it] reducing the 2 ESG's strength down to 17 from 30.
Next up the 2 R4 DB are now at R3 but have not moved yet.
When they do, they will end up at R2 and they also will jump the 2 ESG's
We split the remaining 17 ESG strength between the 2 DB's.

Did we play this correctly?
If not, how should the 2 ESG have the damage been applied?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, October 05, 2022 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Frank per (G23.52)MULTIPLE TARGETS: All three DBs should have taken damage simultaneously, during STEP 6A3 DAMAGE DURING MOVEMENT STAGE.

I play a fair amount of LDR, ESGs can be both over, and under rated.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, October 05, 2022 - 08:09 pm: Edit

David,
Even though the R4 DBs now at R3 did not move yet but they still take damage?

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Wednesday, October 05, 2022 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Per; (G23.52) MULTIPLE TARGETS: If two or more objects enter the field
simultaneously, damage is caused to (and by) the ESG field in the
following priority:
1. Units which move completely through (G23.571) the field....

Yes, due to a damage happening in a single point in the Sequence of Play.

By Marcel Trahan (Devilish6996) on Wednesday, October 05, 2022 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Frank,

If you read G23.52, Option 1, says that all units that move completely through are damaged first, and in your case, all 3 BD moved completely through the ESG's, so damage should be spread across all 3 BD's.

But also, G23.514 specifies that damage is resolved during mouvement but is resolved after TAC. In that case, the first DB went through the ESG first because of the ship mouvement and then, the two remaining DB's went through the ESG's on their move.

Tricky situation, which rule should apply first. Logically, i would do what you did, but SFB being always very logical (Pun intended), the damage might need to be spread on all 3 DB's since they both went through the ESG's.

Marcel

Marcel

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, October 06, 2022 - 08:21 am: Edit

The Admiral's Game (U3) has the defender leave units behind at bases which survive. The attacker has to screen these bases by leaving units behind. I have to leave 4 + the number of units the defender left and one of them has to be as big as the largest unit the defender left (U3.422). Revealing assignments is simultaneous and secret (U3.312).

Question: how do I know how many ships of what size to leave behind if I leave a base unmolested?

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 06, 2022 - 08:56 am: Edit

Marcel,
I think you are correct like we were.
Let's say the 2 DB at R4 now at R3 are targeted on a different ship and their move has them moving away from the R3 ESG and brings them back to R4.
In this case, the 2 R4 DBs do not take ESG damage since they did not jump the ESG and they have not moved as yet.

The R3 DB now at R2 having jumped the ESG will take ESG damage.

Same thing if the DB's were 3 Frigates.
The R3 FF jumps the ESG and takes the 30 point damage on the facing shield.
Thing is, the shield is down so the FF not having moved yet could technically turn back into the R3 ESG and take the damage on a fresh different shield and sharing the damage with his other 2 buddies if they move closer to the enemy ship.

I now believe we played it properly.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, October 06, 2022 - 08:57 am: Edit

Also, the campaign does not mention EW fighters for carriers (U3.2, Carrier Fleets section). Does that mean they don't exist unless/until new carriers are built?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, October 06, 2022 - 11:16 am: Edit

And yet again: U3.32 says base assaults use SG8.0 (Assault On a Starbase). However, there is a defending fleet involved. SG8 does not give a starting location for a defending fleet as it was created solely for a fleet vs. a single starbase.

Where does the defending fleet start? The closest comparison for a general scenario is SG3.0 (Base Defense). Should that one have been used instead?

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 06, 2022 - 12:06 pm: Edit

@ David Merrit,
My buddy Dave Hanson and I had a chat about our ESG interaction and we came to the following conclusion.
We did play it incorrectly.
We concluded that since all 3 DB jumped the ESG sphere, all 3 should have taken damage simultaneously irrelevant of when they jumped the sphere.
The 1st DB that jumped is noted, then the other 2 DBs that jumped are also noted and then ESG damage is applied after movement is completed.
If there is any strength left in the ESG after the 3 DB's take damage, any units on the rim of the ESG now take damage.

The question is in my mind, is damage applied immediately to a unit that jumped the ring [halting all further movement until the damage is applied and if this application destroys the unit, it is removed from play] or after all movement is completed?
If damage is applied immediately, then we played it correctly, if damage is applied after movement, then we played it incorrectly.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Thursday, October 06, 2022 - 08:51 pm: Edit

After movement, before impact. It's a bit of a fudge to make the game playable.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, October 07, 2022 - 10:28 am: Edit

Bumping for visibility

---

Quote:

The Admiral's Game (U3) has the defender leave units behind at bases which survive. The attacker has to screen these bases by leaving units behind. I have to leave 4 + the number of units the defender left and one of them has to be as big as the largest unit the defender left (U3.422). Revealing assignments is simultaneous and secret (U3.312).

Question: how do I know how many ships of what size to leave behind if I leave a base unmolested?

---

---

Quote:

And yet again: U3.32 says base assaults use SG8.0 (Assault On a Starbase). However, there is a defending fleet involved. SG8 does not give a starting location for a defending fleet as it was created solely for a fleet vs. a single starbase.

Where does the defending fleet start? The closest comparison for a general scenario is SG3.0 (Base Defense). Should that one have been used instead?

---

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Friday, October 07, 2022 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Thanks David.

Cheers
Frank

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, October 07, 2022 - 04:06 pm: Edit

deleted

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Friday, October 07, 2022 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Ginger,

I think the (U3.422) bases left behind happens after the fleet forces are organized (I imagine you will know what is at the base then), done in post scenario reorganization (U3.33).

I think the (U3.32) scenario is based on the SG2.0, I would think if a fleet were there than deploy as (SG2.2) for the defender.

If it is a base left behind battle than I think (U3.424) has set up if the attacker player does not use option to attack.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, October 07, 2022 - 09:59 pm: Edit

U3.32 has two possibilities. You're right for when there are fleets. I'm talking about when there is a base.

What you say about U3.422 makes sense but the rules are silent. It's what we'll probably do if there's no official answer by the time it comes up.

Yes, U3.424 covers a situation where the base is screened, not attacked, and the defender chooses to sally and try to raid the enemy's rear. It's still lacking when it comes to a follow-up strike on the base.

I'm hoping the wise and glorious Steve will bring forth his guiding light by the time we get to our base assault battles. We have one fleet battle happening first.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Saturday, October 08, 2022 - 12:04 am: Edit

In (U3.33), (U3.331) the defender does his/her action first then the attacker.
For the follow up strike I would set it up with the base in 2215 hex, and use (SG2.2) for attacker and defender, the WS is covered in (U3.32).

Although I have played it with the attacking force deploying at 101 hexes from the base's (hex 2215) Phaser-4 range (and the defender set up the fleet as (SG2.2) with WS as (U3.32).

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Saturday, October 08, 2022 - 10:23 am: Edit

All very reasonable suggestions. Which alligators do I have to sacrifice marshmallows to in order to get an official response?;-)

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Monday, October 10, 2022 - 08:52 pm: Edit

I was working on setting up a HDW as a carrier (G33.42).

(G33.1) states "Each HDW is fitted with two Optional Weapon Boxes (marked OPT on the SSD) which work, in most ways, in the same manner as Orion option boxes (G15.4) as modified herein.

(G33.113) HDW OPT boxes can hold any system on Annex #8H including non-weapon systems.

Looking through Annex 7D - Systems defined as "Weapons" shows that a shuttle box is not a weapon. This would make the fighter box a non-weapon system.

Looking at Annex 8H under shuttles, there are three entries shuttle (includes Admin), shuttle with ready rack (no admin) and shuttle, ready rack with admin. There is no shuttle, fighter system listed. As Steve Petrick has pointed out, ready racks are not fighter boxes, but you have to "fly out" the admin shuttle to make room for the fighter.

Fighter reload boxes are listed on page 340 of the Omega master rule book.

This would mean that the maximum number of fighters for a HDW is two less than is shown in Annex 7G or am I missing something?

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, October 10, 2022 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Ken, I don't know how good my understanding of HDW are, but my understanding is that, if you want to, you can have...

... All four NWO boxes as "Shuttle" with fighter reload/ready racks...

... The APR replaced with "Shuttles" with fighter reload/ready racks...

... And the two OPT mounts fitted with "Shuttles" with fighter reload/ready racks.

You can, if you want to, then have a full squadron of twelve fighters*.

(* IIRC, Hydran HDW have six fighters standard/casual, so their full squadron strength can be up to sixteen?)

Anyhootch, that's my understanding of things, so please take it with a grain** of salt.

(** better make that TON of salt... )

By Dal Downing (Rambler) on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 12:36 am: Edit

The Optional Weapon Mounts become Shuttle Bays. If it is messing with your head cannon to much.

Replace two of the existing Shuttle Bays with ready racks and move your Admins to the former Weapon Mounts. I know all of the new Fighter/Shuttle Boxes are one large hanger.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 11:10 am: Edit

Ken: you kind of answer your own question in listing the “Shuttle with ready rack (no admin)” option. “Fighter boxes” are just a colloquialism for “shuttle box with ready rack and fighter” - they are still shuttle boxes. IIRC, Petrick’s comment was in regards to escorts the like, which have boxes that have ready racks to service fighters from their associated carrier, and the need to launch or otherwise move the admin shuttle normally in the box in order to land a fighter for service. For the Omega Master Rulebook, my version’s page 340 is in the middle of the scenario section so I can’t address that.

All three types of configurable HDW boxes refer to Annex #8H in such a way to allow shuttle boxes to be taken in them, so you can make all 10 (on a standard HDW) in shuttle boxes with ready racks and no admins for 20 BPV, buy the 10 fighters for them, which combine with the standard two casual fighters into a squadron of 12, and qualifies the ship as a formal carrier under (G33.42). Note also that in F&E, standard HDWs with 1 fighter factor assigned the carrier mission gain 5 fighter factors for a full 6, representing 12 SFB fighters.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 11:54 am: Edit

Ready racks do not have fighters but have administrative shuttles.

Re-reading the casual carrier rules, (J4.897) states "These “casual carriers” have supplies for fighters
defined in (J4.62), based on the number of racks (as they have no actual fighters)."

This would indicate that you can only have the 2 normal fighter boxes, plus the 4 APR * and 4 NWO boxes for a total of 10 fighters not 12.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 12:19 pm: Edit

(G33.113) says the OPT may have any system on Annex #8H, including non-weapon systems.

Annex #8H includes these entries:
Shuttle (includes Admin) ................3
Shuttle with ready rack (no admin) ...2
Shuttle, ready rack, with admin........4

Shuttle box with a ready rack but no admin is an explicit option and distinct from a shuttle box with admin but no ready rack as well as from shuttle box with admin and ready rack.

What from there makes you think that you cannot select shuttle boxes with ready racks but no admins for the 2 OPT boxes?