Ken,

I am going to say the same thing as everyone else, but in a slightly different way.

---

Quote:

Looking at Annex 8H under shuttles, there are three entries shuttle (includes Admin), shuttle with ready rack (no admin) and shuttle, ready rack with admin. There is no shuttle, fighter system listed.

---

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Alex - I am not saying you can't select Shuttle with ready rack (no admin), but these do not come with fighters, just no admin shuttles, and as is stated they are ready rack shuttle boxes, which are different from a normal fighter reload box.

Mike - there is a distinction, the SSD's for the HDW are clear that the Non-Weapon Options and APR * boxes state they can be shuttles, with no "ready-rack" restriction.

My question really stems from the use of "ready rack" in Annex 8H, by definition a shuttle box that is a ready rack does not have any fighters. If you look at any of the escorts that have ready racks, they do not have fighters. As (J4.897) states they do not have fighters. If the intent was to allow fighters in those Option Boxes, Annex 8H should not have included ready rack, but fighter reload boxes.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, October 11, 2022 - 08:33 pm: Edit

A shuttle box with ready racks is a fighter reload box.

The fact that escorts cannot carry fighters themselves is just a limitation of how escort shuttle boxes work. There is no inherent difference between a shuttle box with ready racks on a carrier and a shuttle box with ready racks on an escort. The boxes are the same. The difference is the fighter deployment rule for escorts, not the box.

My other point is that Annex #8H does not include "fighter reload boxes". It only provides the three configurations of shuttle boxes. So, if this non-distinction was real, then an HDW wouldn't be able to carry any fighters in any option boxes.

Also, no shuttle box with a ready rack comes with a fighter. Every ship has to buy the fighters separately. As a result Annex #8H would never list fighters as those are bought separately.

Again, a "shuttle box with a ready rack" is a "fighter reload box".

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 12:04 am: Edit

How is the distinction made between fighter boxes that can reload things like photons or disruptors and those that cannot?

--Mike

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 12:26 am: Edit

Only carriers may reload fighter heavy weapon charges. More than one Fed CAG has wished the escorts could help reload the A-10s... On stock designs these ready racks are often depicted with a hollow diamond rather than an equals sign. While I'm unfamiliar with the root product that defines HDWs and their configurations, I can make an educated guess that since only carriers can reload charges for fighter heavy weapons, there was no need to provide a path for it with this process. Unless there is something there for Hydrans and their Filthy Casual Carried Stingers needing their fusions recharged.

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 08:23 am: Edit

---

Quote:

How is the distinction made between fighter boxes that can reload things like photons or disruptors and those that cannot?

---

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 09:33 am: Edit

This may have been addressed already, but if so I missed it.

Module X1R introduced X-tech ground bases of various types. If such a ground base has more ECCM than the target has ECM, does it get the -1 DRM the way X-ships do? Bases are treated as ships for at least some purposes and I'm pretty sure that space bases get this benefit. But what about the ground bases?

(My guess is that they do, but it's just a guess.)

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 10:19 am: Edit

Alan, see (A3.23) Unit Categories, where base is defined as a subgroup of ship. I’m not seeing anything in (X0.0) or the ground base descriptions in X1R that exempt them from the (XD6.34) benefit so I would say it applies.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 10:30 am: Edit

Alex,

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Unit Categories, which is why my guess was that an X-tech ground base would get the benefit. But I was asking in the hope of getting confirmation. But I suspect you are right, until/unless contradicted by SVC or SPP.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 10:45 am: Edit

Why wouldn’t it? Moreover, if you think it wouldn’t get that specific benefit, then wouldn’t that question apply to every other X rule?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 01:28 pm: Edit

HDW options and ready racks. If you are fitting out the HDW as a carrier it can have 12 fighter reload boxes. HOWEVER, if you are ftting it out as an escort it can have (a) shuttle box(es) with a fighter ready racks and no fighter(s).

In regards X-Ground bases, they are X ships or purposes of the rules.

By Alex Chobot (Alendrel) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Welcome back, SPP!

By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Welcome back SPP!

Also, can you check out Ginger McMurray's questions posted on Friday, October 07, 2022 - 10:28 am. (It is in the October 11, 2022 archive.)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurray asked on Friday, October 07, 2022: The Admiral's Game (U3) has the defender leave units behind at bases which survive. The attacker has to screen these bases by leaving units behind. I have to leave 4 + the number of units the defender left and one of them has to be as big as the largest unit the defender left (U3.422). Revealing assignments is simultaneous and secret (U3.312).

Question: how do I know how many ships of what size to leave behind if I leave a base unmolested?

REPLY: You will know what force the defender left to screen/defend his bases and the size of the ships. (This is at the end of the previous round.) You then allocate the force that will screen/attack/lay seige to the surrounded force in secret but based on what you know from the just completed round.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


SUBSEQUENT QUERY: And yet again: U3.32 says base assaults use SG8.0 (Assault On a Starbase). However, there is a defending fleet involved. SG8 does not give a starting location for a defending fleet as it was created solely for a fleet vs. a single starbase.

QUESTION: Where does the defending fleet start? The closest comparison for a general scenario is SG3.0 (Base Defense). Should that one have been used instead?

ANSWER: (SG8.2) includes in its text the addition of text that says "and ships to the SB ..." It was left to the players to decide when they wanted to involve the base. Start the battle well clear of the base, or right next to it so that you can make use of the base's firepower. In the former you run the risk of your outmatched defenders being overwhelmed and destroyed by the attacker for little gain. (Remember, the attacker selected his attack force in secret before things were set up.)

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Wednesday, October 12, 2022 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Thanks!

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Thursday, October 13, 2022 - 11:20 am: Edit

Perhaps this will help: In skittle games where a fleet is defending a BASE (in this case a SB) I roll a d6 for facing and 2d6 for distance from the BASE. Starting speed is fleet admiral's choice. The attackers start from any direction, any speed, and 34 hexes from the BASE. All of this is done in secret before the game starts.

Feel free to experiment with starting conditions!

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, October 13, 2022 - 01:07 pm: Edit

John Stiff:

Conditions vary from empire to empire. The Feds are normally happy to start about 25 hexes from the base (photons and phaser-1s) while plasma races like ten hexes. Disruptor races are the joker because they hav variations in the effective ranges of disruptors, further complicated by phaser-2s. All of this gets thrown in the proverbial "crapper" if the empires are playing minefields. So there is no hard and fast rule.

By Daniel Eastland (Democratus) on Friday, October 14, 2022 - 08:53 am: Edit

Unless the sensors on the base are down for story reasons (or the defending fleet is arriving "in the nick of time"), it seems reasonable that the defending fleet would be able to position itself however desired.

Achieving surprise with a fleet big enough to take down a base is surely quite rare.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, October 14, 2022 - 10:36 am: Edit

A Romulan fleet under cloak probably has a better chance of achieving some sort of surprise in a base attack.

--Mike

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, October 14, 2022 - 05:50 pm: Edit

I always have wondered how close a fleet could get to a base before being spotted. As well as a bunch of Romulan Warbird's. I mean sub light under cloak.
Even a group of WEs moving under cloak and silent running?

Could they surprise the base? I have read D.17 tac Intel. 150 hexes is level A. Cloak is double the range +5. So, 75 hexes are outside of A. But still in S5

Now it takes level B to tell what race the ship belongs to. 75 hexes for a scout. so, 30 hexes under cloak. But a cloaked ship approaching a base. I would think that it would put the base on red alert. Even more so a group of ships.

Then You get the S levels. So just wondering?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Friday, October 14, 2022 - 07:52 pm: Edit

It is possible for a base in a campaign (The Admiral's Game) to be attacked at range 13 while at weapon status 0. Even in time of war.

"A base has special sensors" is a far cry from "a base is on alert and actively scanning for attackers by highly trained personnel." Sometimes the sensor guy and the scanner girl are having a snog in the supply closet while the rest of the bridge crew are watching reruns on the display.

According to the rules it happens 1 out of 6 times.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Friday, October 14, 2022 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Steve,

"HDW options and ready racks. If you are fitting out the HDW as a carrier it can have 12 fighter reload boxes. HOWEVER, if you are fitting it out as an escort it can have (a) shuttle box(es) with a fighter ready racks and no fighter(s)."

Just to verify, as there is no listing for fighter ready racks, the listing "Shuttle with ready rack (no admin)" with a cost of 2 points is the same as a fighter reload box.

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, October 16, 2022 - 02:24 am: Edit

Annex 7G in module R10 lists two units that I cannot find entries for the Lyran NRV and NRVA.

What is the rule number for those units?

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Sunday, October 16, 2022 - 10:59 am: Edit

Perhaps NRV refers to an NSR (R11.75) with carrier pods?

--Mike

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, October 16, 2022 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Thanks Mike that works. I was trying to get NRVA to be both the same pods, but they are single pod entries.

NRV - New Survey Cruiser + P-H5 (MSSB-R11 = NSVL)
NRVA - New Survey Cruiser + P-V7 (MSSB-R11 = NSV)