Archive through October 29, 2022
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Federation Tactics:
Archive through October 29, 2022
By the rules? Not as much as you'd think.
By logic? Who cares? We're playing a game not a "true to life" simulation of interstellar warfare.
New question: drones can't launch until a fighter has been launched for 12 impulses. How on earth am I supposed to get enough out to threaten PFs, let alone ships?
16 impulses, Ginger, per (J1.341).
Thanks. I only read that yesterday. My memory is older than the rest of me. Lol.
That's even worse.
Is there a way to get fighters out faster? The CVA can but I don't see other carriers with faster launch rates or balconies. I also don't have all of the R sections because I mostly just have the SSDs and master rulebook.
Ginger;
Faster ways to get fighters out.
1. Be a Tholian. External fighter bays!
2. Be a Hydran. Launch tubes!
3. Be one of the half-dozen or so, specially-configured carriers (mostly Klingon, Kzinti, or Fed, IIRC) that have special launch facilities, notated under their ship descriptions.
I thought that having an outstanding crew might benefit launch rates, but sadly, even an outstanding crew can't launch shuttles faster. Must be an equipment limitation. For play balance, they say... ;)
So, maneuver well and hope your fighter CAP performs their speed bump role well! You are at WS-III, right? 
Humor, arr, arr.
In the few, carrier-heavy actions I have been in, the 16-impulse post-launch delay has never seemed a big issue. Probably because my opponents were operating with the same limitations for their fighters. But I also cannot recall an action of fighters vs PFs where I would call the fighters the unequivocal winners either. Too much speed, shielding, power. Once gunboats were deployed, we adopted them and never looked back.
Of course, the old-fashioned way is lead time or longer range to target (don't start on his doorstep) ...
if on a fixed map nearly on top of the target, you brought fighters for what reason again??
Open space battles will be on a floating map with distance to start. Roll for WS. I'll probably have to use high speed fighters and run away for a bit.
Base assaults will be on a 4x4 map. I'll be WS-III. He may start on top of his base, 2 maps away, or something in between. It depends on what he rolls for WS. I don't have fighters at our first couple of base assaults so that doesn't matter as much.
I'm bringing fighters in order to counter his. I can get large stacks of starfish or MW drones on the board with anything that has special rails. He has stinger-2s and I need to blunt their edge before they get close enough to annihilate me. Fighters are one of the ways I'll be using to do that.
If you use the fighters as unmanned scatter-packs you can get them to launch drones in eight impulses rather than 16.
Ginger, don't forget that the Fed CVS (and CVB) has a tunnel deck: door on each end. That speeds things up.
As an alternative to unmanned scatter packs, consider using remote control fighters (J15). They can basically be a scatter pack (J15.341), too, but it much easier to then fly them home and reused them.
>> unmanned scatter-packs
>> remote control fighters (J15)
These are really good ideas!
If memory serves, it looks like J15 would allow F14s to launch type-III drones, whereas the scatter-pack rules would prohibit it?
--Mike
From Randy Green's 5:35 PM post on 27 October:
Quote:Ginger;
Faster ways to get fighters out.
1. Be a Tholian. External fighter bays!
.
.
.
The problem with this is that those Tholian fighters are... Tholian fighters. In the time period under consideration, Tholian fighters (other that the Spider-V fast heavy fighter) are the worst in Alpha. Now, they are also the least expensive fighters in Alpha by then, which makes them quite cost effective in some specific limited roles. But open-space combat against Hydrans is... not one of those roles.
Not only that but I'm Federation. Tholian carriers are pretty hard for me to build. ;-)
But back to the Federation...
One possibility might be to take a few plasma torpedo-armed ships; a BCF instead of a BCG, a DDL, etc. While your primary heavy weapon is the photon torpedo, a small number of plasma torpedoes can usefully supplement the photons. There are certainly some drawbacks to this approach. But there are some advantages as well, which might be worth considering.
The Feds only have Type-F torpedoes, which are short-ranged. But they are also much harder to stop with phaser fire than drones are. A gatling phaser does a maximum of 16 points of damage in one turn. That would reduce a plasma warhead by 8 points. A Type-F hits for 15 out to 10 hexes so a single gatling phaser could reduce it to 7 points. But unless it is a megafighter, 7 points of damage is enough to cripple a Stinger-2. So if the Hydran is charging for the Fed ships hell-bent-for-leather, such that the Type-Fs will hit within range-10, a single gatling phaser isn't enough to save the Stinger-2 from being crippled. The Hydrans will either have to veer off (giving the Feds enough time to get their fighters deployed and put some massive drone waves in play), have some of the fighters crippled before they reach optimum firing range, or pour a lot of phaser fire into those plasma torpedoes, reducing Hydran fire against the Fed ships and deploying fighters (and their drones). Recall also that plasma torpedoes have pseudo-plasma torpedoes. A BCF plus a DDL could launch 4 torpedoes in a single turn... but could also launch 4 PPTs, giving any Hydran fighters trying to overrun the Feds 8 targets to worry about and to divide their phaser fire. And any one of the four real torps could cripple a Stinger-2 if not engaged. In fact, if the PFs are charging in at full speed and encounter a Type-F within 5 hexes of launch, that's a 20 point warhead unless the PF devotes phaser fire reducing the damage.
The purpose of the plasma would be to blunt that initial Hydran charge, giving your fighters time to deploy and your photons more turns to do their work.
But what about subsequent turns? Plasma torpedoes are slow to reload!
Two words; CARRO and NADE!
I hadn't thought of remote control fighters. I've got the points to install backup control rigs on escorts as well. Just in case the carrier gets nuked (though they'll be back farther).
Plasmas are an interesting idea. I'll have to contemplate that some. And reread the rules for carronades.
I'm not sure of the usefulness of carronades. They're basically an extra phaser 3 without a capacitor and better range. It takes 2 to maybe cripple a fighter.
Actually, at range-5 (which is outside the optimun range for Stinger-2s) a Carronade is more like a phaser-1 than a phaser-3. It just doesn't improve beyond that as you move closer in.
But I don't think you should go with plasma ships primarily for the carronade in any case. I believe the primary advantage is in stalling that initial Hydran charge. A BCG could contribute four drones (not including a scatter pack) to the wave if seeking weapons trying to disrupt a Hydran charge. A BCF would instead contribute two drones and two plasma torpedoes (and two PPTs if you so choose. That's harder for the Hydrans to simply bull their way through. If nothing else, it requires the Hydrans to expend more phaser firepower, leaving them with less to shoot at Fed ships/fighters.
Then on turn two (or the turn after the initial pass, whenever that is) start rearming the Type-Fs. You can go for the full 3-turn arming but you have the option of carronading immediately if you need every last iota of firepower NOW.
By the way, if you complete more than one turn of arming, note the effect of additional power on carronade damage (can't cite the exact rule number because I don't have my books handy). In fact, if you have completed arming, at 5 hexes a single carronade shot can cripple a Stinger-2, something that is not possible with a single phaser-1 at that range.
One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post; unlike Type-B drone racks, which would be in those positions on the BCG, Type-F plasma also provides some padding for the photon torpedoes if you take a torpedo hit on the DAC.
Great points.
I'm also looking at loading up on starfish drones instead of MW. A half of a squadron of F-111s can get 72 ADD shots that way (12 * type-I on 6 fighters). Any fighter hit twice is likely to be crippled. That and a follow-up of Ph-2s from fighters and Ph-1s from ships will chew through a bunch of St-2s.
I'd switch to MW once we hit Y180 and he starts fielding PFs.
What are the rules on swapping out extra drones in storage before a battle? Can a carrier with both types of drones pick and choose which to arm the fighters with once I know what the opposition fleet will be?
Technically no ... once the fighter load-out is determined, the drones in storage have the same percentages as on the load-out (note that the initial loadout is also taken from storage).
[If your load-out is 50 spaces of drones and your storage is 250, then there will be 200 spaces left (plus any extras purchased).]
BTW, don't forget that your MRS shuttle has 20 drone spaces for its use (10 of which is the reload) that could also be used by your fighters (as can reloads from the ship's racks/reloads) ...
Where is drone storage listed?
Also, there's a mistake above. 6 F-111s will field 36 ADDs, not 72. A CVB with 12 F-15s could get 72 shots. Alternatively 72 Type VIs will give a PF squadron or 12 fighters fits. Especially alongside 24 Type IVs with a tiny slice of armor. Or even a full space of armor to guarantee they can't be killed by 2 gatling pulses. 12 damage kills a fighter and drops the shield on a non-reinforced PF.
>> MRS shuttle has 20 drone spaces for its use
The MRS also has other missions like drone control that could be useful if one contemplates launching a billion drones...
--Mike
Well at least PFs can not WWs or use chaff
With all of this talk of Fed fighters it's funny that our first battle will be a BATS assault with no fighters on my side.
DNG
CC
2 CM
3 NCL
NSC
DD
vs
BATS
LC
RN
TAR
NSC
My plan has three parts depending on what he does. The BATS itself is lowest priority though I do need to take it out. This is a campaign so destroying fighters and ships will do more for me in the long run. Once the ships are gone the base will be an easy target for massed range 12 proxy fire. In any case I'll be going as fast as I can go with 4 ECCM on everyone but the DNG.
If he stays at the base and tries to brick up I will send my DNG to range 6 with full ECM, transport 6 t-bombs to his doorstep, and launch 3 scatter packs filled with type VI drones to blow the mines. This will blind the base's sensors and let my other ships smash his with overloads at range 4.
If he launches fighters and comes after me I'll keep my distance and launch scatter packs with starfish, type vi, and type iv armored drones at his fighters. When they're whittled down I can more easily deal with his ships (see below).
If he comes at me but doesn't launch fighters (or I've whittled them down) I'll move away from the base so he has to leave its scout channel range to get a good shot at anything. Then it'll be a standard fleet battle except I've got him outgunned. The ranger will be my first target because of how many fighters it has and the higher likelihood of being able to trigger a chain reaction if they're still in the bay.
It'll probably be a few weeks before we get to play. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Thanks for all of the input! It'll actually be next turn before we have any battles with fighters in my side. He fled from the two base assaults I sent my CVAs to.
Your description of your campaign, the setup for this scenario, your attack plan, and then ultimately how it all works out sounds like a really interesting article.
---Mike
Speaking of such articles: have you taken a look over at the SFB Battle Group 550 thread, to consider submitting a squadron for Captain's Log #55? (The header for the thread has yet to be updated from the Captain's Log #54 round of submissions; the CL55 outline as posted by SPP is further down this page.)
Someone has already called dibs on the Federation, but there are still plenty of other empires (to include the Feds' long-lost cousins over in the Federal Republic of Aurora) which remain open at this time of writing.