Thanks, y'all.

I saw the rules for the Maesron and thought maybe there was something out there for general use. Not that I own the Omega rules or any of their other SSDs. I was just curious.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Monday, October 31, 2022 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Upgrading plasma using reserve power:

If you're holding a G-torp in an S-launcher, you can upgrade it to an S & launch using reserve power (FP1.9).

However, with rolling delay (FP1.222), a non-held torp can be finished or upgraded (EPT) during EA.

Is there an option to to upgrade the held G-torp to an S during EA, rather than using reserve power during the turn (as long as it is launched that same turn)?

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Monday, October 31, 2022 - 10:53 pm: Edit

So just to understand correctly, you're talking about a situation where (in an S launcher) you have allocated as follows:
Turn 1: 2
Turn 2: 2
Turn 3: 3 (Armed G-torp)
Turn 4: 1H

And you're asking if
Turn 5: 2 (Armed S-torp) is legal allocation?

I believe that this is fine as contingent reserve allocation, however the result is an S-torp that itself cannot be held, so this allocation forces you to launch during turn 5 or you have to eject the torp.

So my suggestion would be to actually allocate
Turn 5: 1H

Earmark 1 point of reserve power to upgrade the torpedo to an S-torp if the firing opportunity is presented, but letting you keep the torpedo if not

Allocate the other 1 you were thinking of putting into the torpedo at allocation as 1 point of contingent reserve towards whatever action you needed that point of reserve power for (HET or whatever).

End result is the same, except you don't _have_ to launch the torp.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Monday, October 31, 2022 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Unless, of course, your batteries have been shot off.

By Daniel Bitseff (Cadet_Stimpy) on Tuesday, November 01, 2022 - 10:44 am: Edit

Thanks Jamey,

It's only 1 pt to upgrade held G to an S? I paid too much! But ya, looking for a ruling on if it is ok to allocate the upgrade during EA (but has to be launched that turn), or only during the turn using reserve.

By Driptox on Wednesday, November 23, 2022 - 07:02 pm: Edit

Authentication Error

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Thursday, January 05, 2023 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Not specifically a rules tourney question-

Let's say I allocate 5 power to tractor. Could I decide on any impulse that I am allocating part of it (say 2) to negative tractor in such a way as it is set it stone that I have -2 tractor "on" and that my opponent knows I have -2 in tractor prior to attempting to anchor?

I am wondering if I can designate tractor energy so as to possibly discourage an anchor attempt. I am not trying to forecast that I have more power available for tractors if I need it, only that I am dedicating part of it in a non-reversable way that opponent can see.

I am guessing that if it ok to do this that I would announce it during the tractor segment of IA.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Thursday, January 05, 2023 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Why would you want to? Let them allocate power, possibly burning their batteries, and then apply negative tractor.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 11:21 am: Edit

I think there could be situations where I would definitely prefer the bad guy not to get close if I feel like I need to park. The Kzinti charging in that is counting on an anchor might not charge in if they knew I already had 5 in negative tractor. Some idea like that is what I am thinking. At least what it does is forecast some semblance of readiness if that is their plan.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 12:43 pm: Edit

>> forecast some semblance of readiness

It sounds like you'd like to broadcast some information to your enemy, to deter them from taking some action?

--Mike

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Tractor energy can be dedicated to positive or negative energy, or simply left undesignated until the need to use it in either of its two uses. However, there is no way for your opponent to detect how you have set it up until he reaches a range where you can attempt to tractor him, or he attempts to tractor you.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Jack, you might want to review how tractor auctions work.

Negative tractor isn’t known until tested.

Plus, why empower your opponent? That’s what your doing. If they wish to anchor you, you have up to five allocated points of tractor energy to apply as negative tractor. (Like a scout paying for EW points, they are not cast as type until assigned). You have reserve/battery power past that.

If you successfully bluff your opponent into not anchoring you, you have given them power they can use elsewhere potentially. Worse, if you declare all five of those allocated points as negative, you have to use battery power should the desire to hold off drones or suicide shuttles at range 1 appears.

Pardon me for saying it this way, but it sounds like you are trying to star castle without accepting the consequences of low/no movement. There are other ways to deal with anchors. Launching Sucide shuttles (even zero warhead ones if they anchor you at range1) on-the-beam. Can be very effective, especially if your playing a ship with two bays.

Just what were you thinking the use case for this to be? And the desired reaction from your oppenent? I ask because I just can’t see why it wouldn’t handicap you and empower your opponent.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 02:33 pm: Edit

suffice to say, your ship might be prepared for a 300 point tractor auction (exaggeration for conversational effect) and you might tell your oppponent that you have 300 points of energy, but your opponent is not going to accept that you have that until he "tests" the situation by either being tractored by you and have to fight the beam, or tractoring you and having to fight your tractor energy. Energy allocated to tractors is unknown until it is engaged. or until the scenario ends and your opponent can review your energy allocation sheet and see where you might have energy allocated to tractors that went to waste because he was not able to tractor you or resist being tractored. There is, however, no way to detect tractors unless a player announces he is tractoring something within the rules [cannot tractor a planet (G7.421)], or you put negative tractor to counter an enemy's tractoring you. You can apply power to negative tractor when you are not fighting a tractor beam, but have no reason to waste the power until the enemy tries to tractor you, so you just allocate the power to tractor and may have another use for it during the turn (an enemy drone that you were ot expecting so you tractor it with some of that power you allocated to tractor).

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Thank you Steve. That's all I needed to know.

Respectfully though, I do not agree with you on this one as far as a strategy. I see reason to want to do it and I think it could have a large impact on how a game works. I thought it might could work like ECM. It's been a long time since I played with ECM but believe I can allocate it but decide not to use it at first, and then later turn it on or not, and never use all of it if I don't want to. If ECM is on certainly it is known, I was wondering if negative tractor energy might work the same way.

Jeff- My having unchangeable negative tractor "announced" would likely cause all sorts of reactions. It would probably impact movement decisions, mid-turn speed change ideas and launches. It might encourage someone to shoot at range 8 and turn off. It might make a Gorn think it can't really afford a fast load. It might cause someone to not use batteries to overload because they probably need them for an anchor. It might cause someone to withhold phasers that would be charged using batteries. It might do a lot of things that I think could benefit me. I honestly can't see a downside, I am deciding it, I am announcing it, I am determining when I announce it, and how much. I am probably parked in most situations when I might want to do this and so have more power than my opponent anyway. No matter what my opponent has to think about it and maybe they end up thinking wrong.

But Mr. Petrick has stated it can't be done and that is cool. Thanks everyone.

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Friday, January 06, 2023 - 08:05 pm: Edit

The difference is significant

You can allocate any amount of energy towards "tractor" in completely unspecified amounts, whereas ECM/ECCM must be allocated and announced, and can only be changed within the limits of your reserve power.

So, tactically, announcing 2 ECM on a ship with 4 batteries announces that ship is capable of pushing to 6, but only can manage 4 ECCM that turn.

But, announcing 2 negative tractor essentially tells them nothing, except for sure where you've put 2 energy. Because you could have allocated any arbitrary amount that you can use for either purpose.

A smart opponent will always be building a bit of a mental model of where you power is allocated, and usually will have at least a ballpark idea of how much tractor energy you could manage, if they're thinking about trying an anchor or worried you might.

So, let's say the opponent figures out you could have 5 tractor energy, or up 9 if you left some phaser capacity empty, give or take a few points if you didn't charge some heavy weapons or have speed changes coming up. That right there is enough to inform any decisions you're concerned about. Announcing any amount of negative tractor only 1) limits your options with the tractor energy you have, and 2) gives them more information for their mental model of your allocation.

IOW it's all downside.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, January 09, 2023 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Jack Taylor:

Sorry, but there are a lot of caveats here. You have to announce your EW status, see rule (D6.32). You can delay announcing how much ECCM you have allocated for IF YOUR ACTIVE FIRE CONTROL IS OFF. But once you turn it on the enemy knows (because you are required to announce it) how much ECCM you allocated for as your fire control comes up. You can rely on batteries to raise ECCM (or ECM) in the middle of a turn, but powered EW is announced at the start of the turn it was allocated for.

By David Cheng (Davec) on Monday, January 09, 2023 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Jack,

From my reading, Petrick did not state that it can't be done.

His exact words are "However, there is no way for your opponent to detect how you have set it up until he reaches a range where you can attempt to tractor him, or he attempts to tractor you."

My reading of this is once your opponent is within range 3, during impulse activity, at step 6B4 (Tractors), you could pre-emptively (or perhaps simultaneously) announce negative tractor.

Also, while I understand that the tournament rulebook states that rules for tactical intelligence (D17) are not used, I cannot help but notice that if using D17, "The existence of an established tractor beam" is detected at level B, or 50 hexes for a standard ship. If you announce anti-tractor, why would that not also be detected at 50 hexes?

Contrary to some other commenters, I can totally see the value of preemptively announcing some anti-tractor; one could see it as part of the psychology of the game.

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 - 11:26 am: Edit

Negative tractor is not detected until it is actively used to resist being tractored. It is not "an established tractor beam."

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 - 01:40 pm: Edit

David Cheng:

That is detecting an object that is HELD in a tractor, and the ship that is projecting the holding beam. It is not detecting a ship with energy in tractor if it is not holding a target. Once more, a ship that is not actively tractoring a target or resisting being tractored cannot have tractor energy detected. Even if you are starting the turn at Range 1 and strongly suspect that your opponent may try to tractor you, you cannot detect that he is going Speed Zero (allocated no movement energy) so that he can put 25 units of power into a tractor beam to tractor your ship on Impulse #1. You have to allocate your power based on what you think he is going o do. Conversely, he has to guess how much power you might put into negative tractor. Neither of you knows until the turn starts and the attempt is made to tractor (and may not use all of the tractor energy allocated because he allocated more than you allocated for negative tractor) and negative tractor is used.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Steve - I hear you no arguments. I guess what I wonder about though is how negative tractor energy stays on throughout the turn once it is turned on. You don't have to resist a 2 point tractor beam twice. But I guess another ship coming along can't see it?

Hey, if you can't see negative tractor ever, that is fine. It is what it is.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Ginger- do you have a rule number?

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I have even better: a Steve Petrick agreeing with me.

By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 - 01:39 pm: Edit

So this isn't a case where a rule number is necessary. There isn't (that I could find) a rule number reference that says, "You cannot detect negative tractor." But there's also no rule that says, "You can detect negative tractor."

Looking through Tactical Intelligence, there's no level where you can detect negative tractor.

Also, there's rule G7.357
"Negative tractor beam does not require active fire control (D6.6) and will not void a cloak (G13.432) or wild weasel (J3.452)."
And that clause would seem to strongly indicate that it's something undetectable.

I mean, sure, there's "because Steve said so," but also the rules are permissive. If no rule specifically covers you being able to do something, you can't do it.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Ginger McMurry:

Yes, Negative tractor remains on, so much so that it can be used to repel 32 attempts to tractor you (once per impulse using the same power you applied to tractor). See (G7.353). Unless the shp operating the negative tractor drops it (perhaps to allow a friendly ship to tractor it).

By Ginger McMurray (Gingermcmurray) on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 - 02:12 pm: Edit

In all seriousness, though. I don't have a rules reference specifically stating that negative tractor is not "The existence of an established tractor beam." You'd have to be the one to provide proof if you're claiming that it is.

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But I guess another ship coming along can't see it?

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