Archive through February 22, 2023
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Archive through February 22, 2023
If the Photons did NOT have feedback at range 1 in tourney, that would impact quite a few matchups interestingly in the Fed's favour. Whether that would be enough is a different question. (I'd hate it as the Orion! Well, unless I was playing Mini-Fed.)
Tim.
The photons auto-hit at Range 1. early in the game a Klingon who I was training to play in a tournament turned in to get behind the Federation ship I was running opposite him. I promptly performed a high energy turn to face my #1 shield to him. My shield was down, his was intact, Causing him to exclaim "I can't believe you are doing that!" to which I responded "I have four fully overloaded photon torpedoes. You are dead!" and indeed he was. Although as it was a practice game I advised him launch a shuttle and drones before I fired to soak up some phaser damage. He actually survived and limped off the board to lick his wounds. If you are going to take the Fed's best shot you have to make sure you are going to survive and hit back solidly. Sixty-four points and eight phaser-1s and two phaser-3s on an intact shield is survivable, but you need to have a plan. the fifth photon (Fed Feedback) is not pleasant for the Fed, but at the stage in the game where you are going to chase the Klingon he will not be thinking about you any more. If he had not launched the decoy (Shuttle at that stage could have been a suicide shuttle that I could not evade, I no longer remember if there were any drones, but they would have helped by drawing more fire).
Apparently it's time to reprint the Federation PSA to Klingon captains from Captain's Log 8...
Has giving the FED a UIM ever been proposed?
A) The "Photon UIM" is a thing that vanished with the Positron Flywheel.
2) The issue with the Fed is not something that gets fixed with the Fed just hitting better (then the Fed is just super powerful). It is that the Fed either hits (and then wins) or misses (and then loses), generally, on a single toss of dice, due to the all or nothing aspect of the Photon.
Like, there are certainly ways to mitigate the luck aspect of the Fed (i.e. only ever fire at R2 or R1), but they are *very* difficult to consistently make work. So what what does happen most of the time is:
-Fed fires at R8: If it hits with 0-1 photons, it probably loses the game. If it hits with 2 photons, it has a game. If it hits with 3-4 photons, it probably wins.
-Fed fires at R4: If it hits with 0-2 photons, it probably loses the game. If it hits with 3 photons, it has a game. If it hits with 4 photons, it probably wins.
-Fed fires at R2: If it hits with 0-2 photons, it probably loses the game. If it hits with 3 photons, it has a game. If it hits with 4 photons, it probably wins.
-Fed fires at R1: It hits with all 4 photons! But it also takes an extra 16 points of damage on the return volley which might get it killed.
R4 is fool's gold I say.
Agreed :-)
I mean, if you can get R4 on a back shield, or a perfect R4 oblique, with all your phasers still able to fire at the opponent, and you get just get away clean till the end of the turn? Take the R4. But mostly, R4 is "I hit with 2 photons and some phasers, and then my opponent got to R1 and gutted me".
I think the following statement is true 98% of the time. If the Fed hits with 3 photons at ranges 5-8 the first time it rolls it wins. Assuming there is also 6 p1's being fired. Most players today can arrange that shot. The Fed should do somewhere between 60-66 and a bunch of internals. Most of the time- the Fed is taking no internals in this exchange. Very few at most. Today's players are all good, few can win a game down 30-35 internals. Game over if the photon roll is 3,3,3,4. Feel free to argue with me 
I am less sure about this following statement - I think the Fed might win 92% of the time if 3 photons hit the first time they are fired at ranges 4. Like period, like ever. If 3 ever hit + 6 p1 (r4+) in that first shot that game is probably over.
I know my percentages aren't exact, but 40 years of playing tells me I am not a million miles off.
This is a strategic combat game based on Star Trek and the Enterprise is largely all about luck and a tournament wrecker for skilled players. I would say something should be done about it but I do not know what. Sadly, I know that after 40 years of tournaments nothing is ever going to change.
The only thing I've ever messed with to "normalize" Fed photons was to roll 2 dice for each, with both scoring hits dealing a direct hit, one scoring a hit dealing half (a proximity detonation), and neither scoring hits a miss. In the very rare case of a range 0 proximity detonation, you would also halve the feedback.
Obviously it doesn't change the "game balance" as the probabilities are identical, but makes the damage output look more like a bell curve (a much smaller standard deviation) so the results are more likely to tend towards the average.
I say bring back Narrow Salvos to tournament play!!
So, a no then.
How about adding 2 regular drone racks?
I still think a more balanced Fed is 3 Photons, 8 P-1s, 4 P-3s, G-rack, 32 warp, and 40 power. Basically trade 1 photon for 2 P-3s and 2 Warp. Just my 2 cent.
I think you have it all wrong. I believe that the other ships are too strong. A lot of ships have been added to the tournament game. The shark is way too strong in my opinion. The Wyn cruiser really all that power a pick of weapons. My poor King Eagle. Is not even the ship it was.
The Fed can take a range 8 shot from the Klingon and lose a shield. If it missis with 3 photons so be it You can run out the drones. The shark has 2 more drone racks or extra phasers.
Tactics have changed over the years. We used to run in and fire at the best range for your ship vs the other. Now we have faints and misdirection.
If you want to upgrade the Fed give it a 4 standard drone scatter pack.
Why in the world would anyone want to upgrade the Fed? Make it even more impossible if it rolls 3,3,3,6 at range 8 doesn't make any sense. No offense intended to anyone, I just can't see that.
I agree with Ron in that the only way it can work is with 3 or less photons.
Crazy idea... For overloaded photons, change the last to hit number and the 1st miss number to "proximity" half damage...
Range Hit for full Proximity for half
5-8 1-2 3,4
3-4 1-3 4,5
2 1-5 6
0-1* Stays the same 1-6 for full but feedback
Same average damage but reduces the chance of a total whiff.
Ron/Jack:
Something like that (Fast Fed) exists in the SFBOL Library, although I think for some unknown reason it has 6 p-1s and 4 p-3s. Details are hazy.
Last I saw it, it was 3xPhoton (FA), 3xP1 (FH), 2xP1 (LS), 2xP1 (RS), 2xP3 (LS/RS), 2xP3 (360), G-Rack, 32xWarp, 4xImp, 4xAWR. I think.
Greg- cool idea. Don't know if it would work but at least you're thinking!!
Let me put in my two bits.
A standard photon cannot fire at Range one (automatically misses) and proximity photons cannot be fired at less than range nine. If you put a proximity fuze on it, it will. not hit a target at less than nine hexes. Allowing the photons to choose which damage they are going to do based on a die roll is eliminating the Player having to make a decision before he starts playing the turn. You are not playing a Fed anymore.
Steve I know it was a non starter but thought I would throw the idea out there for people to try in there own home games... I guess the term proximity was not correct. I was not suggesting there is a proximity fuse...but a die roll would give partial damage. and by taking a "Complete hit" and splitting it over two "half hits" average damage and expected damage would remain the same... just avoid some of the feel bad of missing everything.
Steve, I can't speak for Gregg but while we both used the term "proximity" it wasn't a reference to the proximity warhead choice. My suggestion would apply equally to proximity warhead torpedoes, making the 2 dice rolled determine whether 0, 2 or 4 damage was inflicted by a single torpedo.
I could change up the terminology, maybe consider the warhead to behave something like a shaped charge, with both dice scoring hits meaning a straight-on detonation for full effect, and a single hit result meaning the blast was at a lower angle for half effect. But the mechanics of what type of torpedo and what full damage values to use are identical. No change to what _can_ be done, just turning it into more of a bell curve.
I assure you that the math checks out, and it does not fundamentally change the game or what decisions the Fed makes at energy allocation regarding types of torpedoes to load, it just "smooths out" the damage done by torpedoes making "average" damage results more likely, and extremely low/high damage results rarer.
In 1941 the Hood was considered one of the best warships in the world. The Bismarck blew it up 3 minutes into battle on it's maiden voyage. I think of this every time someone jackpots on photons at range 8.
I'll point back to the idea I posted on Feb 14:
"Someone suggested, at some point, replacing the 4x Photons with 8x Light Photons (exactly the same as regular photons, but half as big, so 1+1 to arm as 4 point standards, 2+2 to arm as 8 point overloads), and as a special tournament rule, every time it took a torp hit, blow up 2 of them, and you have to repair 2 at a time, and must fire them in pairs (so no increased mizia potential) so they are in all ways identical to having 4 standard photons (power to arm, potential max and min damage, ability to repair, whatever), except you get to roll 8 dice instead of 4 dice, and have the potential for more variable damage (i.e. 5 hits at R8 is 40 damage, 3 hits is 24), but with 8 dice, the damage will tend to be more average (i.e. you'll probably *never* completely whiff or jackpot, but will also usually hit about average)."
Peter, yours is a good suggestion, very similar to mine, but IMHO, my suggestion achieves the exact same thing in terms of the adjustment to damage probabilities, but is simpler to implement and doesn't alter the book keeping in a way that allows for "half a torpedo" to be armed and fired, which allows some edge case tactical options that wouldn't be possible normally.
EDIT: I just noticed the bit about "they must be fired in pairs" which doesn't affect the game the way I was thinking. Your suggestion and mine are actually the same.
So 3 options.
1) Continue to play with the current G-rack Fed. The ship does have an OK win/loss ratio. I think the main complaint is how it wins and loses.
2) Go back to playtesting the "Fast Fed". Removing 1 photon and adding a p-3 RS, p-3 LS and 2 warp.
3) Playtest the special photon rules Peter mentioned.