| By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 02:45 pm: Edit |
Not at all!
Quote:That would seem to imply that they can’t just build replacements for those lost in battle, which would mean there would be lots of ships that had no cloaks from battle losses.
| By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 03:04 pm: Edit |
When I read U7.23, it seems pretty clear that the Romulans build a few more cloaking devices than they need for their own uses, and can, in a campaign setting, sell some. Note the following:
and
Quote:Only the Romulans may build cloaking devices; they can produce one for each new ship (including bases and PFs) built plus one additional one, i.e., if they built five ships and a mobile base in a given campaign phase, they would build seven cloaking devices.
There are a number of situations in SFB that players, in designing a campaign, will have to determine for themselves, based on their own preferences. For example, in a non-historical campaign in which the Lyrans are not Klingon allies, how do you handle Lyran drones and fighters? You could forbid the Lyrans from using such units unless they ally with the Klingons (or, with minor changes, the Kzinti). Or you could decide the Lyrans some how captured / reverse engineered fighter and drone technology and can build their own. But perhaps their industrial processes are not well suited to production of these units, so they only have limited numbers. A similar situation occur with Tholians and photon torpedoes. But in any case that's the type of thing that players have to decide for themselves in setting up the campaign. And I think cloaks fall into the same category.
Quote:The Romulans can never transfer the technology to build the device. They can sell a maximum of four such devices per year.
| By Mike Dowd (Mike_Dowd) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 03:07 pm: Edit |
I've always read it is "cannot be repaired [by the ship]", with the addition of the [ ] part in my mind.
This preserves the fact that the unit can't be repaired in a scenario, but that it isn't actually destroyed, only rendered non-functional.
Anything short of the destruction of the unit that has it installed has it repairable by a repair facility.
Also in my head-canon, UIM are in the same boat.
| By Jamey Johnston (Totino) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 03:35 pm: Edit |
I looked back and maybe we need a refocus on what the actual question is?
If your question is, "How do you track cloaking devices for Orions?
The answer is, you only track cloaking devices for installation purposes, for any players using them, AFAIK. The "cost" to repair a destroyed one is exactly the same as one repaired weapon box, between scenarios, at a repair facility or repair freighter. The only way to "truly lose" a cloaking device, once installed, is for the ship to be destroyed completely (-1 cloaking device), or for the ship to be captured (-1 for you, +1 for someone else).
The main rule reference I will use to support that response is, "(G13.164) A destroyed cloaking device can be repaired by (D9.45)." Suggesting that they are being repaired, not replaced.
The "extra" cloaking device you get as a Romulan per campaign phase you can either A) Use it on a purchased foreign hull, B) Use it on a captured hull, or C) Sell it to the Orion player. It's not something you have to keep track of as a replacement.
The other point I will make that, IMHO, makes this response likely the correct interpretation is the simple fact that all Romulan ships have cloaking devices, in all scenarios, and there's no rules for BPV of a Romulan ship without a cloak as with Orions. This strongly supports the notion that they aren't a tracked, limited resource like SWAC shuttles, because as you pointed out, if that was the case, there absolutely would be Romulan ships running around without cloaks sometimes.
| By Mike West (Mjwest) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 04:56 pm: Edit |
I admit I missed (G13.164).
Works for me.
| By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 05:45 pm: Edit |
The way Mike Dowd explained it is the way I always thought it worked. Same would apply for Orions.
Alan: They can only build one extra though, anything else has to be removed from a ship.
| By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 06:26 pm: Edit |
Note that the one extra is over some time-frame and if there are several time-frames, the Romulans could have several spare cloaking devices in storage ...
| By Douglas Lampert (Dlampert) on Friday, March 10, 2023 - 10:11 pm: Edit |
If the Romulans are desperate for a cloaking device, build a Snipe and convert it to a Snipe-P, which IIRC has no cloaking device.
Poof! Instant extra cloaking device for the cost difference between a Snipe and a snipe-P.
| By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Monday, March 20, 2023 - 11:38 pm: Edit |
I am hoping to clear up a difference of opinion on DefSats/Captor mines.
Situation: A DefSat fires direct fire weapon at a enemy ship on Turn 1 Impulse 16. The ship is moving at speed 20. The DefSat is controlled by a base so in not acting on automatic.
Applicable Rules:
(M7.41) LOCK-ON: A ship with active fire control (D6.6) can roll immediately for a lock-on against any captor mine (even a chain or command-controlled one with a disabled detonator) that fires/launches a weapon during the impulse of firing/launching. In such cases the maximum sensor rating is “4” even if the ship has a higher rating. This die roll is not affected by EW shifts. The speed of the ship and range to the captor mine have no effect.
(M7.42) RETENTION: Once achieved, the lock-on can be retained by rolling (with a maximum rating of “4”) at the start of future turns. The speed of the ship can be no more than six or lock-on is lost immediately. Other conditions of lock-ons (range, blocking terrain) also apply. If the ship’s fire control is disrupted (D6.68), switched to passive (D19.0) or to low-power (D6.7) the lock-on is lost.
Issue: The issue is when is the “The speed of the ship can be no more than six or lock-on is lost immediately.” In section M7.42 applied. Does M7.42 apply only on subsequent turns after a DefSat fired or does M7.42 apply in the turn the DefSat fired?
Position A: The DefSat fires on turn 1, Impulse 16 and ships successfully rolls for lock-on (1-4). The ship retains lock-on until the end of the turn regardless of speed. Starting turn 2, the ship must maintain speed 6 or less or it will lose the lock-on. This position seemed very clear in a Steve Petrick post on August 29, 2020.
Position B: The DefSat fires on turn 1, Impulse 16 and the ship successfully rolls for lock-on (1-4). The ship is moving speed 20 so will immediately lose lock-on on movement on Turn 1 Impulse 17. The ship has no opportunity to counter attack. The DefSat is effectively invisible to ship going over speed 6. This seemed equally clear in a Steve Petrick post on January 08, 2021.
Obviously, they cannot both be correct
Thanks, David
| By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Tuesday, March 21, 2023 - 11:38 am: Edit |
This would be a relevant rule:
(D6.111) Some situations break lock-ons during the course of a turn. These include cloaking devices, planets, and others noted in their rules. If the circumstances under which a lock-on was broken or prevented change during the course of a turn, a new lock-on attempt may be called for by the relevant rules, for example (G13.332) in the case of cloaks or the standard (D6.113) in the case of a target which emerges from behind a planet.
| By Mike West (Mjwest) on Tuesday, March 21, 2023 - 11:53 am: Edit |
This is about gunboats and boarding parties. While investigating some gunboat/marine unit questions I had for Federation Commander, I check on what the SFB rules stated. But the SFB rules are pretty sparse, too. And with the greater flexibility in SFB, the questions actually increased. So, here are the SFB questions.
Rule (K1.33) says that "no more than one enemy boarding party" can be on a PF. How many allied boarding parties can be on a PF? Can Commander's Options be used to add boarding parties to a PF? Can an allied ship transport over boarding parties to a PF? (That could either be to counter an enemy boarding attempt, or to load it up for delivery somewhere.)
Or, to circumvent any of those restrictions, can a PF turn one of its crew units into a militia unit, then have an allied ship transport over a replacement crew unit?
Rule (R1.PF3) says that a ground assault PF can carry a maximum of 10+1 boarding parties. How many can any other kind of PF carry?
| By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Tuesday, March 21, 2023 - 04:05 pm: Edit |
David H
(M7.41) says you have a lock-on until the end of the turn (as noted at any speed).
A DefSat normally in a situation is best to fire launch either on impulse 31 (then obits behind planet out of sight) or impulse 32. On imp 32 it limits return fire to imp 32 if the defsat did a launch and no return fire if the defsat fired (SOP).
In this example the Defsat has launched/fired on impulse 16, it can be fired on impulse 16 if it launched or impulse 17 if it fired direct fire weapons.
The next turn must be at speed 6 or less to attemp to retain lock-on.
| By David Jannke (Bigslowtarget) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 12:47 am: Edit |
Mike - this might be relevant to the gunboats and boarding:
------------
Annex #6, Commander's Options in module K(2000) page 2:
PFs cannot use ... extra boarding parties (including HW and commando)...
------------
They can definitely turn their crew unit into a militia (K1.33) but there is nothing saying that a generic crew unit can be a PF crew. In fact strict reading would be "The crew assigned to the PF is the minimum crew, and if that crew is reduced,..."
Which implies but does not say that a particular crew unit is the only crew and taking it away makes the ship undermanned no matter who else is onboard. They use a different crew experience system which tends to support a special crew as well.
I would expect but do not have specific rules backup for: you are stuck with 1 bp on a standard PF, 1 enemy bp, and 1 crew unit that might be turned into militia (causing undercrewed).
________________
I think you can drop a Legendary Marine Major in either with or without a BP. That is thanks to his rules and references in Death Riders.
________________
I searched all past Q&As for references to boarding parties and found no official rulings. I checked Advanced Boarding Party rules and PF module rules.
| By Mike West (Mjwest) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 08:33 am: Edit |
I tried to not tip my hand, but I assumed this:
Quote:you are stuck with 1 bp on a standard PF, 1 enemy bp, and 1 crew unit that might be turned into militia (causing undercrewed)
| By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 02:25 pm: Edit |
Allied BPs are friendly BPs and do not increase the limit.
| By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 04:11 pm: Edit |
Wayne,
Not quite.
M7.41 indicates DEFSATS lock on possibilities on the impulse of launch/firing, not the turn.
I asked this very question back in Jan of 2021, see SPP's reply dated Jan 8/2021.
IMHO, the best time for a Defsat to fire/launch is no later than imp 31 if enemy ships are moving 7 or faster.
If enemy ships are moving 6 or slower, they get a chance to lock onto the Defsat on turn x+1.
Cheers
Frank
| By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 04:50 pm: Edit |
Frank, yes from the impulse of launch or fire and as I noted if the Defsat launches on imp 16 then 1-4 it can be locked on and fired at on imp 16 and for the rest of turn could be targeted by launches or direct fire at any speed (M7.41). The next turn must be at speed 6 or less to maintain a lock-on chance (M7.42).
:A reply to your question on launch at imp 32,
"By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, January 06, 2021 - 04:04 pm: Edit
Frank Lemay:
The rule (M7.42) says: 'The speed of the ship can be no more than six or lock-on is lost immediately." That seems pretty definitive that if your ship moves faster than Speed 6 at any time you lose lock-on. Note that you could have been moving Speed 31 when the captor fired at you can gained a lock-on by the rules [(M7.41) "The speed of the ship and range to the captor mine have no effect."] which nominally lets you pop off a shot (direct fire) at a captor mine (or defense satellite) that launched a seeking weapon at you. but not a Defense Satellite if it only fired direct-fire weapons at you (unlike captor mines here, which fire immediately when triggered so you would get a shot at them)."
| By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 05:37 pm: Edit |
Frank
If (M7.41) lock-on is only for the imp of fire or launch and not rest of turn, then as I noted the defsat could be fired on if it launched, and it seems like also if it fired (R1.15C) "and cannot be fired at unless they have fired"
| By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, March 22, 2023 - 07:27 pm: Edit |
Wayne,
If the Defsat launches a seeker, then enemy ships have that impulse 'only' to gain a lock on roll which is 4 or less.
The next imp, the ship loses lock on if it is moving faster than speed 6.
If the ship is moving speed 6 or less, the lock on, if successful, is good for the remainder of the turn.
If the Defsat fires its phasers, enemy ships have the following impulse to gain a lock on roll but only if they are moving speed 6 or less.
That is why it is best for the Defsat to fire its phasers on imp 31, especially if enemy ships are moving faster than 6.
Cheers
Frank
| By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Thursday, March 23, 2023 - 11:39 am: Edit |
Step 4 in the sequence of play is specific when all players determine if they have a lock-on. Since lock-on is not part of the impulse procedures wouldn't this imply that once you have the lock-on you don't need to re-establish it until the next turn?
Just my 2 cents.
| By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, March 23, 2023 - 12:11 pm: Edit |
Ken,
I guess with Defsats, you need to roll [4 or less to succeed] every turn and also move speed 6 or slower once you attain lock on.
Cheers
Frank.
| By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, March 23, 2023 - 05:03 pm: Edit |
K, thanks Frank.
all good
| By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Friday, March 24, 2023 - 01:59 pm: Edit |
Another DefSat question: If the DefSat is controlled by a base and the controlling base is blocked from the target ship because it is behind the planet. The controlled DefSat has a clear line of site to the target ship. Can the DefSat shoot under control?
| By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 26, 2023 - 01:43 pm: Edit |
DH,
I would say yep as the Defsat is controlled by sub space communications.
At least in A&B it is.
:>)
Cheers
Frank
| By Robert Russell Lender (Rusman) on Tuesday, March 28, 2023 - 03:58 pm: Edit |
Regarding Emergency Deceleration one hex from a planet with an atmosphere: I recall about ten years ago, someone posed a question about declaring Emergency Deceleration while one hex from a planet. I think it went something like this:
Q. If a ship declares Emergency Deceleration on an adjacent hex to a planet with an atmosphere, does it crash into the planet when it moves forward once more? Or does its move send it into the atmosphere (beginning atmospheric flight)?
A. Petrick replied something to the affect that the ship would move into the atmosphere and begin atmospheric flight, saving it from immediate destruction by slamming into the planets surface.
Any chance this can be confirmed? or is my recollection of this incorrect?
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