Archive through April 14, 2023
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: Rules Questions:
SFB Rules Q&A:
Archive through April 14, 2023
Douglas, the tables are Ken's, not Alan's.
I overlooked the part in (G10.831) which limits the number of web hexes as well. Apparently the 3 strand buzz saw can have strands of length 18 if they're of equal length. 27 hexes if a 2 strand buzz saw.
I have a rules question based on my rule book searches.
Does (G10.831) make 30 hex strands for both 2 and 3 strand buzz saws illegal?
(G10.831) The total line indicates the total number of strength points in a three-layer web with radii of one, three, and five. In the event that the players decide to set up other web arrangements than a wedding cake, these strength point totals DICTATE THE NUMBER OF WEB HEXES and
web points which are available for purchase. (my caps for emphasis)
A three layer web totals 54 hexes, a 2 strand buzz saw totals 60, and a 3 strand totals 90.
Thanks in advance
Agreed that the totals exceed what is in the (G10.83) table, but for the buzz saw configurations I used the graphics from R6. Either (G10.831) should be amended for the configurations in R6 or the R6 graphics should be updated to reflect the totals in (G10.831).
GOOD question, John.
The best answer I can give is that the limit of thirty hexes for a web applies to an INDIVIDUAL web.
If you wish to have three strands of web going (the three layer cake or the three strand buzzsaw), as long as none of the three web strands is more than thirty hexes in length, it's perfectly legal.
Aw, heck, you could have thirty webs that're all thirty hexes long, if you really wanted to!
(Of course, they'd be expensive as heck and trying to keep them sustained is questionable at best... 
)
As always, though, this is just my opinion, and I'm frequently WAAAAY off.
Question re a Carrier lending EW to fighters.
The lending step is before fighter launches.
Can a carrier [with no fighters on the board] lend EW to non-launched fighters and then launch the fighters in the same imp after the lending step and if so, do the fighters get the lent EW immediately?
Or does the carrier need to launch fighters on imp x and then lend them EW on imp x+1?
Thanks.
Cheers
Frank
Jeff, I may be as wrong as you, but I think the best and easiest solution is to have the web point totals be the only restriction. If you want 30 webs each 30 hexes long at WS-0, you only get 420 web points for strengthening.
Frank, per my reading, by (J4.93) the carrier generates the points as a standalone activity, which are then lent to the designated squadron, not individual fighters. So it can generate the desired EW points (D6.310) and announce them (D6.32) as points for its squadron (J4.93) and (J4.931).
As soon as a fighter is launched, it (barring very unusual circumstances) meets the (J4.921) requirement of having a lock-on to and being within ten hexes of its carrier, and thus is immediately eligible to receive the lent EW.
Note that (J1.343) prevents an EWF from loaning for the 1/4 turn after launch.
That is correct. The EW from the carrier is by squadron, and can be announced before the fighters of the squadron are launched. Note, they also can launch under EM, meaning it is possible for a fighter to leave the bay and have 10 ECM protecting it immediately.
Thank you Alex/Jamey.
I am flying Hydrans in my campaign, so this is good news!
Cheers
Frank
Frank, just keep in mind that Hydrans, even though virtually all their fighter carrying warships are fully capable carriers per (J4.623), do still have to follow (J4.46) for squadron organization, e.g. a Uhlan must split its 16 fighters into two squadrons, with separate lent EW for each.
Frank,
Something to keep in mind with this, is that if you're running a squadron with an EW fighter, you can have the EW fighter run max ECCM (usually 4 ECCM). The carrier allocates and loans ECM (up to 4 points if you have the energy to spare). This, plus the built in 2 points, and EM gets you up to 10 ECM on launch.
On the impulse before firing, you declare cessation of EM, and then on the impulse of firing you also change your lending source to the EW fighter, pushing the firing fighters up to 6 ECCM. They of course drop to 2 ECM at this point, but they're firing and that's the life of a Hydran fighter pilot.
Jamie,
Do you have a reference that loaning can happen before the squadron/fighter launches?
Ken, see my response to Frank at 2:49 PM above. The carrier generates the EW points no differently from generating points for its own use, with no further requirements for anything else to be present on the map.
Eddie,
Module R1 (R1.24A) Construction:
Mobile base consists of two special MB pods (on the SSD) and four others which are usually cargo pods. (no more than one or two could be other types of pods most often self-defense or repair but any type of pod can be used except as noted below) To function as a repair point must have at least one repair pod or two repair modules. To function as a supply point must have at least two cargo pods. The MB can also be equipped with two base augmentation modules of any type
(R1.24B) PODS:
Is see in (J1.343) that a shuttle can receive EW lending immediately upon launch, but it seems out of sequence. Lock-on is determined in step 6B3 of the impulse activity segment. Launching fighters is done in step 6B8. As you have to have a lock-on to the fighter you would not have it due to the timing of when lock-on happens. Should there be a step in the 6B8 that you roll for lock-on to any launched fighter? This would also include any enemy ships as you need lock-on to fire most direct-fire weapons.
Jeff, I need to amend my last post. I think the best solution is to remove the number of web hexes as a restriction, and require that each starting web hex to be of at least 1 aggregate strength point.
Your hyperbolic example of 30 webs each 30 hexes long at WS-0 would be illegal, or at least 16 of those 30 hex strands would be at strength 0, but you could theoretically have 14 webs at 30 hexes long each at 1 aggregate strength point. This change would allow any buzz saw or other web arrangement so long as the requirements of (G10.831) are met (minus the number of web hexes part), and no hex may be stronger than 15 ASPs per (G10.833).
As even those 14 webs described above would be entirely impractical, the starting webs would be more reasonable in order to consolidate the available web points.
I'm also thinking that there should be some rule-of-thumb to require that there be a balance between the number of starting web hexes and the starting units able to power those web hexes. (G10.83) says "Webs are kept at strength zero (using low-power generator buoys which do not function during combat) until a threat appears." That obviates the need for webs to be spun in response to an approaching enemy. It also subtly allows for your hyperbolic 30 webs of 30 hexes. Shouldn't the available Tholian forces mathematically be able to power up the web to each weapon status in a relatively short number of turns? This would require the battle year to taken into account as well as the number of web hexes to be charged. Since the largest difference between web totals in the (G10.83) chart is 560 web points, shouldn't the Tholian player be required to show how his units could have both maintained and been able to charge the webs to their current level in maybe 10 turns for each weapon status jump, counting WS-0 as a jump from strength 0?
Ken,
There are a couple of oddities related to fighters on launch. But the lock-on question is more simple to clarify:
The lock-on step in 6B3 is part of the impulse step and is used primarily when interacting with cloaking devices and when changing fire control status.
There is also a lock-on roll that is made at the beginning of the turn (step 4, usually skipped because it's automatic until sensors are damaged) that grants you a lock-on to all units on the map for the whole turn, except when something happens to modify that, like cloaking or fire control changes for a WW or similar.
This is why ships are allowed to fire on seeking weapons the same impulse they are launched, you don't have to wait until the next impulse to gain a lock-on to the seeking weapon, you have a lock-on the moment it appears on the map. Same applies to shuttles/fighters, ships on the map instantly have lock-on to launched fighters if they have the "general lock-on" from the start of turn.
There is an additional restriction that the fighter must have a lock-on to the carrier (or EW fighter) to _receive_ loaned EW, and it's not clearly stated whether they have lock-on to anything on impulse of launch or they have to wait until 6B8 of the next, but since they can't fire anything and (as you noted) J1.343 says they can receive immediately, it doesn't matter.
Finally, normally you must declare the start of EM on the impulse before it begins, but J1.26 explicitly allows shuttles/fighters to launch under EM.
Jamey,
I understand what you are saying but following the strict interpretation (I know this is not what is meant) from Annex 2, you do not have lock-on to either shuttles or fighters when they launch. I think there should be a update to Annex 2 to close this loop-hole. There is how everyone plays vs. what is written.
Quote:This Sequence of Play lists almost every action that can be taken during the turn, in the EXACT order that they occur. These actions must be taken in the SPECIFIC order listed here. Actions within a step are sequential in the order listed unless noted otherwise, e.g., shuttles launch at the same time whether they are manned or seeking. Note that Catastrophic Damage (D21.0) (with its associated evacuations and escapes) may be declared on a number of the following steps. See (D21.11).
(caveat: I haven't looked at rules for 10 years or so)
Ken,
Question:
Using your previous post,
1. Do enemy ships have lock-on to friendly shuttles immediately when they are launched, or is enemy fire affected by lack of lock-on till next impulse?
2. Do enemy ships have lock-on to friendly drones immediately when they are launched, or is enemy fire affected by lack of lock-on till next impulse?
3. Do friendly ships have immediate lock-ons to friendly drones launched, or do drones go inert immediately upon launch?
I would assume all these instances are covered by the same rule interpretation and all should be handled the same way.
Ken, there is an IFF signal ...
Ken,
Why do you think that you don't have lock-on to a fighter when it launches? Remember the sequence of play has several steps _outside_ the Impulse Procedure, which is step 6. The relevant step is step 4. Quoting from B2.3, step 4:
"The effects of the lockon or failure to lock-on will last for the entire turn. A given unit will
either have a lock-on to every other unit on the map, or to none of them."
This is the rule that establishes that all units have a lock-on to all the other units. The Impulse procedure dictates when things happen within an impulse. So, for example, if a ship moves behind a planet, or a ship cloaks, you need the impulse procedure order to determine _exactly_ when those lock-ons are lost or gained relative to other actions you might want to take within that impulse.
If a unit appears on the map (be it a fighter, seeking weapon, another ship, or any other possible unit), and it's not too far away, cloaked, behind a planet, and you passed your (usually automatic) sensor roll back in step 4 (before impulse 1), you have a lock-on to that new unit.
If this was not the case, point blank drone launches would be rough. Imagine a world where, if you only had the impulse of launch to fire at a drone about to hit you, you had to fire at it without a lock-on!
ADDs require lock-on (E5.14), so per Ken’s reading of the SOP you can’t engage a drone or shuttle with an ADD the impulse it’s launched at all - which I don’t think anyone has ever played as.
But let’s look at the exact relevant text of impulse step 6B3:
Quote:Roll to determine if lock-on has been lost, retained, or regained due to changing conditions (D6.1). Note that this may be repeated several times during the impulse if conditions (particularly cloaked ships and WW) change.
It specifically says the the roll can be repeated during the impulse in response to changing conditions. A unit appearing is definitely a changed condition, so everything on the map can immediately roll to determine lock-on to it, and it can roll to determine its lock-on (which will be automatic in most circumstances).
See also (P2.322), where two units that start and end movement with LOS to each other but while the movement is being resolved have a point where a planet is intervening - lock-on is technically lost and required but with no game effect.
Between those, I believe it’s pretty clear that 6B3 is not the *only* point in the impulse where you roll for lock-ons, just the *first* one - and it itself creates the ongoing permission to roll as needed for the rest of the impulse.
Question re escorts without their carrier around.
S8.311 states escorts cannot be used except as part of a carrier group.
Thing is, in our campaign, 2 Hydran escorts are on their way to link up with their UH carrier but have been intercepted by a Kzinti DD.
Would this be a house rule definition or is there a reference or errata to deal with such a situation?
Thanks.
Cheers
Frank
Frank, (S8.0) is intended for, as titled, patrol scenarios, ie one off “buy a fleet to X BPV and play a straight up fight”. For campaigns, events arising from such can produce non-complying situations, see the fourth paragraph of the opening section of (S8.0).
In your case, if the campaign allows for that combat situation to happen, then those are the ships that fight! You can’t bring the two escorts to a patrol scenario (without opponent approval) since that’s not the “normal” operations patrol scenarios represent - but since the Kzinti managed to get the DD into position to intercept, it becomes the kind of unsuspecting situation campaigns are great for,
Thanks Alex.
I did not know about the 4th paragraph.
This helps a lot!
Cheers
Frank