Yup, a lot of (S8.0) is about enforcing things that the one-off scenario commander doesn’t otherwise need to consider when fleet building. For example (S8.361) is there because the patrol player doesn’t have worry that taking three D5Ls means that two squadrons are left without leaders and all three leaders are being risked in a single action. Whereas as a campaign player you do have to consider that - and may decide it is a risk worth taking!

By Ken Kazinski (Kjkazinski) on Sunday, April 16, 2023 - 11:36 am: Edit

Alex,

Thanks for finding the statement "Note that this may be repeated several times during the impulse if conditions (particularly cloaked ships and WW) change."

We have always played you immediately have lock-on, my question/discussion point was centered around does there need to be more specific lock-on rolls listed in the sequence of event.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Saturday, May 06, 2023 - 02:18 pm: Edit

I have a question about asteroids with ground bases on them. Do the asteroids take damage from ship or mine explosions? I'm sure the base will take that damage if it is in arc, but what about the asteroids? Would a solid piece of rock take damage from a defuse, unfocused explosion some distance away?

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, May 06, 2023 - 03:36 pm: Edit

John,

I can't give an official answer but my guess (only a guess) would be that they do take damage unless you can find something in the rules that explicitly says they don't.

By Fred Werenich (Phredator) on Saturday, May 06, 2023 - 05:16 pm: Edit

If a hydrant ship and it's fighter are in separate hexes on impulse 5 and on impulse 6 they move into the same hex, can the hydrogen ship on that impulse tractor and land The Fighter. The idea here being that no one would have an opportunity to shoot at the fighter before it lands. I couldn't find any rule prohibiting this but I also couldn't find any rules specifically stating that you can land at the same impulse. The rules seem to state that if you rotate the shuttle into your hex you can land at the impulse that you're right hated into but we're talking here about both of you simultaneously moving into the same hex and then you attaching a tractor and then you rotating it in. Can you do all that on the same impulse? And if you can with that mean that according to the sequence of play no one could shoot at the fighter before it gets into the bay

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Saturday, May 06, 2023 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Fred, look at the sequence of play, if one can tractor and land before weapons then yes, if not, then no ...

Ah, tractors are in 6B4, landing in 6B8 and weapons in 6D2 so yes, but seekers are 6B6 ...

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, May 06, 2023 - 09:25 pm: Edit

I don't know that the asteroid question has ever been asked before. To my mind, assuming without looking it up that you can destroy an asteroid with weapons fire, I would say that the explosion would damage the asteroid. But this is SPP's department and his (forthcoming) answer is definitive.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Sunday, May 07, 2023 - 08:42 am: Edit

The only asteroids that can host a ground base (and it must be a small or medium ground base) are large asteroids, per (P2.747) and confirmed by (P3.44).

(P3.45) states that large asteroids can be fragmented by 400 points of damage (which would also destroy any base built on it).

Nothing in (P3.45) states that the damage has to come from direct attack (direct-fire weapons or seeking weapons).

Nothing in the rules for resolving mine explosions (M2.5) excludes asteroids from the effect; (M2.51) specifically states that it will damage "all objects" within the explosion zone, and the only called-out exceptions are other mines (M2.54) and plasma torpedoes (M2.55).

Likewise, nothing in the ship explosion rules (D5.0) excludes asteroids from their explosive force; while planets block the effects of explosions (D5.55) (P2.547), there's nothing granting large asteroids that capability.

It certainly appears that large asteroids can take damage from ship and/or mine explosions.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, May 07, 2023 - 03:58 pm: Edit

So, there is a base on the large asteroid. My little Frigate moves in behind the asteroid and out oof the bases fireing arcs. Does 400 points of damage and kills the base... legendary.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, May 07, 2023 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Gregory;

You need to be a little careful about that.

---

Quote:

(P2.747) Small and medium ground bases can be placed on large asteroids (P3.4), in which case they would have 360° weapons and their shields would cover the entire 360° arc. Large bases cannot be placed on large asteroids (although of course they can be placed in asteroid hexes). Players may place the bases on a hex side of the large asteroid, limiting the arc into which it can fire (and from which it can be hit) to 180°; see (P3.43).

---

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Sunday, May 07, 2023 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Steve, thanks. After decades of play I came up with a thought that's absolutely new.

Jessica, in my mind there's a difference. Weapons fire at an asteroid is focused, whereas the effect of an explosion is not. Weapons fire is akin to hitting an asphalt street with a hammer, there will be damage. I see a mine or ship explosion akin to an egg on the asphalt and dropping a firm mattress or pillow on the egg. The egg will get crushed while the asphalt will suffer no damage.

I see every unit from the smallest drone to Stellar Fortresses as the egg. There is a precedent for some things not damaged in mine explosions: other mines (M8.53). Large mines can be destroyed by 6 damage points (4 for small), but cannot be damaged by a large mine detonation or ship explosion in the same or adjacent hex for they are shielded. I'm asking if a large asteroid's rock and bulk might be a natural form of that shielding.

The only fly in the ointment I can think of are Jindarian rock ships, but I'm not sure if they are large enough to support a ground base. IIRC the rock ships are the largest ships 'in their size class' which implies a small enough size that some shipyard constructed ships may be larger. Also the rock ships' being hollowed out may make them structurally susceptible to explosions.

We'll find out when SPP decides.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Sunday, May 07, 2023 - 05:48 pm: Edit

General damage from mines if the Large Asteroid has an atmosphere (P2.5474), and without an atmosphere (P2.5475).
Or if the scenario says it can be destroyed (P2.312).

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, May 07, 2023 - 11:48 pm: Edit

STEVE PETRICK review this question please.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 08, 2023 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Damage to asteroids by Mine and Ship explosions: Yes, these will damage asteroids. However, there is a game reason why this damage is not (seemingly) accounted for. There are a LOT of asteroids in an asteroid hex [See (G7.242), while it is talking about the use of tractors it sets up the reason for explosions.] In terms that are fairly easy to understand, an explosion, whether of a mine or a ship, is going to damage all of the asteroids in the explosion radius. At least one of the players involved would be at that time required to determine the damage to every asteroid affected and maintain that record so that damage could be accumulated for purposes of (P3.45). It gets more complex because some asteroids will by definition take less damage because they are shielded by other asteroids in the hex. These asteroids are mostly not the (P3.4) large asteroids, but all of them are affected and affect the explosion of the mine or ship (degrading the force). So in game values you have to specifically target with weapons the asteroid you wish to destroy.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 08, 2023 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Fred Werenich: I confirm Stweart Frazier's answer. See, however, (J1.6213) for the specific rule allowing you to land the shuttle the moment it enters your ship's hex, all during the same turn. Stewart Frazier provided the points in the sequence of play (Annex #2) where this all occurs. His note on seeking weapons is also correct in that they hit the moment they enter their target's hex and are an exception to the case, slamming your fighter in (6A3) in the case, before you can tractor it aboard, and excepting your ship as the target in the following impulse if you succeed in landing the fighter.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, May 08, 2023 - 03:22 pm: Edit

I will remind everyone of the "bag of rocks" theory so no matter how much damage you do to an asteroid hex a web will still anchor to it. As far as "not large" asteroids, breaking a six-meter asteroid in three two-meter asteroids is going to have no game effect. You only have to track the ones big enough to have destruction numbers.

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Monday, May 08, 2023 - 04:10 pm: Edit

SPP, thanks for the answer.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Question re fighter pods.
Can Hydran stingers with no drone racks carry 2 pods [on top of the one built in] without a reduction in speed?
In short, giving the stinger 6 EW to play with.

This is what I am understanding as per J11.112.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Correction on the 6 EW to play with, it is 4 EW to play plus the 2/2 built in.

Cheers
Frank

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 04:43 pm: Edit

Frank Lemay:

Nope, sorry. You only have the two pod rails, the rule is referring to this (J11.111). Pods carried on those rails are "extra", more than the fighter normally carries, and slow the. fighter unless dropped. You have the two points built in, but the most you can have from pods on your Hydran fighter is ZERO unless you add them to your pod rails in (J11.111), in which case each one slows your speed by one. So the pods can gibe you four points of EW, but will slow you by two points off your speed as a Hydran.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Ensign, get me plan B! :>)

Thanks SPP!

Cheers
Frank

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, May 10, 2023 - 11:05 pm: Edit

A delayed move question:
Turn 9 imp 31 Two friendly ships (have been speed 20 whole turn) in the same hex along with two friendly ECM drones (one ship tractors the other and both the ships and ECM drones will move on imp 32 and the ships have a delay move on next turn. Turn 10 imp 1 the tractor ships have a delay move.
Do the ECM drones move on turn 10 imp 1 delayed also?

(I think the drones do not do a delayed move, they are not in tractor and no speed is called for on imp 1)?

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, May 11, 2023 - 12:13 am: Edit

?more on delayed move,

FD9.181 Speed The ECM drone cannot exceed its rated speed to keep up.
If the ECM drone (has moved 20 hexes turn 9) was moved on Turn 10 imp 1 delayed with ships it would of made 21 moves)

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, May 11, 2023 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Wayne Douglas power:
It would help if you would provide the speed of the ECM Drones. From your text I was able to figure out the the drones were speed 20, but they could have been speed 8, or 12, or 32 besides (and if armor modules were used. In any case, in your example the drones will move with the ships because the delayed movement is made at Speed 10 (assuming the two ships were movement cost 1). While the ships before the tractor had a speed of 20, the tractor link results in a pseudo speed of ten for the ships which is slower than the drone's speed so they continue to move with the ships.

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Thursday, May 11, 2023 - 04:41 pm: Edit

SPP
? That would mean the ECM drone has moved 21 hexes (only has 20 movement, if this is continued over 10 turns then the speed 20 drone moved an extra 9 hexes, gaining one hex at the start of each new turn on impulse 1). The ships are in tractor giving the ships the extra movement on impulse 1 the drones are not in tractor).