Seeking shuttle stops (used SP).

Opponent transports a boarding party onto it. (D7.62) roll results in "In Doubt".

Later, while still "In doubt", the original owner recovers the shuttle.

How is the boarding party resolved?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 11, 2023 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Michael Kenyon:

The boarding party has not captured the shuttle and so could still be killed by booby traps. Boarding parties on the ship could attack the shuttle, and if they secure it could disarm the booby traps. The boarding party who beamed onto the shuttle could disembark and fight the defenders, but probably would not win, and the abandoned shuttle could be disarmed by the friendly crew.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, August 11, 2023 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Ok it has been a very long time since I played with Tholian Web.

(G10.31) PROCEDURE: Total the amount of energy added to the
web as reinforcement, deduct any lost as deterioration (G10.41), and
divide by the number of hexes in the web, ignoring all fractions. This
is the strength of the web. The ignored fractions are not discarded;
they may be accumulated and recalculated.

Improvments the strength of the web is equal to 1.5
times the strength calculated in (G10.31), ignoring any fractions then to double.

I know that means to multiply the number of webs hexes. By .667 giving the loss to degradation. (or in half after Y175.

is the power added to the web done the same way? Or is there some equation I am missing?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, August 11, 2023 - 09:51 pm: Edit

well I think after reading the examples I have it right again... but please answer above,,

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, August 14, 2023 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Gregory S. Flusche:
There is nothing in the rule that changes how power is added, so I am not sure what question you are asking.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Monday, August 14, 2023 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick

I have a 6-hex web with a 60-aggregate strength. giving a web strength of 6 before Y160.

After Y161 it is 1.5 times the strength calculated.
That makes my 6-hex web with 60-aggregate strength.
A 9-strength web? Or is it still 6?

Then on the next turn I add 12 power to the 6-hex web. At the end of the turn. The strength is calculated. -4 for degradation? (6 but 1.5 times) Then +12. Or is it 18 because of the 1.5? Giving 68 aggregate strength or 74 aggregate strength?
Then calculate the strength of the web as 68 0r 74 divided by 6 web or by 4 as above?

I am thinking that it is 60-4+12=68 aggregate strength. Then divide by 4 for the number of web hexes not 6.

I hope this is a bit clearer. It has been a very long time since I have played with Web. The group I played with long ago was much better with the math stuff.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Monday, August 14, 2023 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Gregory, you're mixing your math a bit ...

The web equation is starting power plus added power minus degradation [1 per hex (Y160), 0.667 (Y170), or 0.5 (180)], divided by length and then multiplied by 1 (Y160), 1.5 (Y170), or 2 (Y180).

So, using your example, a 60-power web of 6 hexes has a web strength of 10 (60/6). In Y170 this would be 15 [(60/6) x 1.5], and 20 in Y180 [(60/6) x 2)].

Second example of +12 power and degradation comes put to 60 + 12 - 6 [6 x 1 (Y160)], 4 [6 x 0.667 (Y170)]. or 3 [6 x 0.5 (Y180)], which gives 66 (160), 68 (Y170), or 69 (Y180) giving a web strength of 11 [66/6 (Y160)], 16 [68/6 x 1.5 (Y170)], or 23 [69/6 x 2 (Y180)] as fractions are ignored.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Monday, August 14, 2023 - 07:42 pm: Edit

Well, that makes a lot more sense. Sheesh has been way to long playing Tholian web.

That You very very much

By Mike Kenyon (Scottishenginee) on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Steve P.

Confirming the rule to use to resolve the combat with the boarding party. My assertion was that it used the procedure for a boarding party attacking the ship (as they were a BP in the shuttle bay outside of a shuttle).

I could see a case to be made for using the procedure for attempting to take over a shuttle, but unsure how to handle the guys in the bay shooting at them while they attempted it.

My opponent made a case for using the Enemy Shuttle in the Bay rule. I argued against on the basis that they were OUTSIDE the shuttle, and even if they were in the shuttle the interlocks are engaged so the weapons don't work (but it does give the BP a better chance of survival).

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Well I have looked and read and cannot find. can a Tholian ship acting as a web anchor use a WW? I know a ship stuck in the web can.

By Nick Blank (Nickgb) on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 - 04:53 pm: Edit

The only thing I can find is:

(J3.451) says a ship protected by WW cannot lay, maintain, or reinforce webs without voiding the WW.

I don't know if anchor status means you are "maintaining" the web even if you are not adding energy to the web while a WW is active? If so then it looks like the WW is voided on launch by a ship with anchor status.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 - 05:44 pm: Edit

Maintaining may be just that...

By MarkSHoyle (Bolo) on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 - 08:26 pm: Edit

Do you need "Active Fire Control" to act as an anchor...
Believe that is where the sticking point would be...

By wayne douglas power (Wayne) on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Mike Kenyon,

perhaps (D7.623) die rolls continue while in bay until a result or could use the (D7.631) to resolve the shuttle scenario.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, August 17, 2023 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Gregory S. Flusche:
A Tholian unit that is in a web, whether serving as an anchor or not, can launch a wild weasel. There is no requirement that a web anchor have active fire control (otherwise you could not use asteroids as anchors). The ship cannot do any functions which will affect the web (lay web, maintain web by adding power on that period while protected by the weasel, which includes reinforcing the web. The Tholian ship can as noted serve as an anchor while also being protected.

Michael Kenyon:
The shuttle in the bay can be attacked as given in (D7.623), if the boarding party ops to leave the shuttle and fight the crew, then that would be resolved under (D7.631), but at least they would not be killed by booby traps.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Thursday, August 17, 2023 - 05:07 pm: Edit

thank You, Steve P, That just made me very very happy.

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, August 17, 2023 - 06:17 pm: Edit

I feel like I should know the answer to this, but can Jindarian asteroid ships be used as web anchors?

Oh, consider the possibilities of a Tholian-Jindarian alliance!!


Garth L. Getgen

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 18, 2023 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Gregory S. Flusche:
It occurs to me that you MAY be thinking that a Tholian ship can move Speed 5 or greater, enter a web hex, and forgo its web pass ability or assume anchor status and then launch a wild weasel to protect itself from a horde of seeking weapons. Sorry, but no. Even though the ship is no longer moving faster than Speed 4 while caught in the web (however voluntary), its ENGINES are still generating movement points although it cannot use them.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, August 18, 2023 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Garth Getgen:
Can Jindarian asteroid ships be used as web anchors? Sure, but the Jindarian ship cannot use the power from its warp engines or impulse engines or AWRs, see (R16.1C8).

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, August 18, 2023 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Steve P

No not at all. Was more of the like of forming a 2-hex web between to ships, at speed 0. Both then being web anchors. Means they cannot be tractored. That would of course make then still vurnable to a bunch of seekers. With the ability to also then throw out a WW. This can stop the infamous Gorn anchor. Now would it be better to put the 6 points for the web and then a few more to power it? Into anti tractor?

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Sunday, August 20, 2023 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Is there any way for a small or medium ground base to extend its shield around the asteroid it is on?

A while ago I submitted a proposal for a Ground Based Web Generator which would allow early years Tholians to help power their inefficient webs, especially the 3rd ring of a wedding cake. Even though small ground bases cannot be hit by weapons fire beyond 5 hexes, their asteroids can be. An obvious tactic of an attacker is to stand off and snipe the asteroids beyond 5 hexes. If the ground base could extend its shield around the asteroid, it could counter this long range sniping requiring the attacker to approach closer to overcome the shield and its reinforcement.

If this is possible, what would the provisions be for alternating between including and excluding the asteroid from the shield?

By John Christiansen (Roscoehatfield) on Sunday, August 20, 2023 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Deleted

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Monday, August 21, 2023 - 03:03 am: Edit

John, the answer to that is a firm no. The asteroid would be larger than the base, and the rules for a base extending its shields to protect docked ships requires the object to be smaller than the base (C13.731).

Even if you could extend your shields around the asteroid, you'd end up loosing half the effective boxes of said shield, per the procedure in C13.7311, and there is no reason to surrender what shields the base has to prevent damage to the rock the base is on.

Remember that even after the asteroid is reduced to rubble, it may still function as an anchor point via the (G10.1314) 'sack of rocks' rule. Even so, reducing an asteroid to rubble takes a fair bit of firepower, 400 points of damage (P3.45) so its not as if the bases are all that vulnerable to this attack method.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, August 21, 2023 - 08:16 am: Edit

I think you can ALSO choose whether your asteroid base is a "360" or one with a facing.

Because that P-IV base wants a shooting LOS, but the ground power base doesn't want a LOS to anyone.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, August 21, 2023 - 01:11 pm: Edit

According to rule (R1.14A5), the small base on a large asteroid (P3.44) can have 360° (P2.747) or they can have 300° firing arcs (in which case they could not fire or be fired at through the blocked arc. But there is no effective way to avoid being fired at, merely a 60° degree are where it cannot be hit.