Archive through January 11, 2024
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Archive through January 11, 2024
There's a potential argument to be made that only the forward hull would be fitted out for patients, inasmuch as the aft hull is back around all of the engineering spaces (impulse, batteries, warp nacelles) and the shuttle bay. If so, that'd cut it down (using Ken's 20-per box assessment) to 360.
(For grins and giggles 
)
Due to the shuttle bay being in the aft hull area, wouldn't it make more sense for the expanded sick bay to be there as to help better contain some contagion, should that be what the CLH was trying to deal with?
(Aaand on a side note, the Queen Mary has long been a local attraction pretty close to where I live, so I've visited it a few times. One feature that was rarely talked about during her work as a luxury liner was the isolation ward for people who had picked up some sort of germ/virus. It's in the stern of the ship.)
Naturally, of course, I think it perhaps best to see what Module 'M' says about what boarding area the expanded lab facilities are in?
Jga: per Module M (page 54), there's two boarding areas on the CLH: A (Forward) and B (Aft). The labs are all located in area A.
And that's good for me too, Jessica. Sick bay in Area A, in the forward hull area, with beds for 360 patients.
This past weekend, I was going thru my stack of SSD books, and I "remember" noticing a Gorn Command / Leader Light Cruiser variant. For the life of me, I can't find it now. Was it in my imagination?? Or was it on a Captain's Log??
Garth L. Getgen
Regarding hospital ships, I don't think you can count the Hull boxes as part of the max-patient capacity.
Consider the Fed CLH Hospital Ship has the same number of Hull boxes as the base Fed Light Cruiser (old) CL, but it does double the number of Lab boxes (12 vs 6). Ergo, I believe that the additional Lab can count as Sick Bay. Or I could be generous and count all the Lab boxes. But I feel that NONE of the Hull boxes should count.
On the other hand, the comparing the F-HS Hospital Freighter vs the next most similar ship, the F-ES Exploration Freighter. Also, compare to the S-AC Small Aux Cruiser. The Small Hospital Ship has double the Hull boxes in the main body of the ship in addition to the Lab boxes. Therefore, I would count all the Lab and HALF of the F-Hull boxes as Sick Bay.
Furthermore, I could argue that the Lab-box Sick Bay is something of an ICU and the Hull-box Sick Bay is more of general recovery ward, perhaps twice the number of patients as the ICU. Running the math, you get 10 per Lab box and 20 per Hull box (counting only half said Hull boxes).
So, the bottom line is: the Fed CLH with its 12 Lab boxes / ICU Ward can support 120 patients.
How's that for Vulcan logic??
Garth L. Getgen
I Never Knew you had POINTY EARS!
Garth - The Gorn Early Years Command Cruiser (YCC) is based on the Light Cruiser (YCL). That may be what you remember.
Some of the ship notes for the Fed CH mentioned that the shuttles were fitted with special medical equipment to help ferry patients to the ship. Since the shuttle bay is in the aft hull..
I didn't see any notes for either of the warp-refitted CH, the Early CH, or the modern one dictating patient maximum capacity. Conceivably because no one ever thought this question would come up... lol
John W. Could be it. {shrug}
Garth L. Getgen
Sgt G?
When I first read your question, my (alleged) mind jumped to the Neo-Command Cruiser (R6.A10, from Captain's Log # 50); the shuttle bay on the aft hull section does make me think of the classic CL.
My guess is that it's NOT what you were thinking of, but given how wrong my guesses often (usually?) are, I thought it at least worthy of mention.
Late coming to this discussion, but for my 0.02$ worth…
I appreciate the opinions expressed, and the analysis of the various hospital ships seems straight forward…
However, there are several other factors that were not considered.
For example, in the real world, most wars where one participant, or both used hospital ships (designated as such, often painted white and blazoned with a large red cross), the traditional mission of converted troop or passenger ships were. NOT often present on or near the fighting.
No, often the patients would be taken to a kind of MASH unit, or received medical attention from the medical personnel at the battalion, Regimental , divisional or Corps level. Then, when stable would be transferred to a place where the could recover (heal). If the wounds were minor or could be quickly tended, the patients that could be returned to their units would be.
For those more serious wounds (including amputation) would be sent to a hospital ship that would transport the wounded soldiers back to their home nation.
This general pattern existed (in primitive terms) from the Crimean War, on through the Boxer rebellion, spanish American War, WW1, WW2, Korea and the Vietnam War.
It should be remembered that speeds were slow for those wars listed above. Sometimes weeks or even months were required to arrive at the destination. Particularly true for victorian era wars.
What happens in the Star fleet Battles Universe might be similar or even wildly different.
To simplify things, is it possible that hospital ships (based on small and large freighters?) have three missions or roles?
One is to transport the more serious wounded troops to a major world that can further help them recover? (Of course they have the sick bays to continue the medical surgeries and treatments required by the patients while in transit) .
Second, to provide emergency support for a FEMA type emergency for civilians? This could vary from pandemics to tectonic emergencies, or volcanic planetary events or even societal conflicts (large riots breaking out on a planetary scale. (In the Federation case, it might be a second responder vessel with a FEM command ship.
Third, use similar to what modern Hospital ships operated by the United States Navy, such as Mercy or Comfort. These ships have conducted missions to various ports in South America and Africa providing basic medical services for those nations that do not have a first world medical health system.
Such missions would not require a combat hull.
That would leave the Federation Hospital ship (built into a OCL class ship) for services required in a dangerous situation or in a combat area.
Like the Army MASH units, it would be close to the fighting where being minutes away from where the injury occurs, could save lives.
Not saying you would put a hospital ship into combat, but it could be closer than where freighter style hulls should be.
Could even be transient for the patients. Just enough beds for post surgery recovery, but still waiting to be transferred to a ship for transport out of the war zone.
Jeff W. --- Agree with your theory. The CLH would be more of a trauma center near the combat zone rather than a general medical facility. The F-HS / F-HL would be used to evacuate patients after they've been stabilized, which would explain the larger capacity.
Jeff A. --- Sadly, no. I must have imagined it. In my head, it looked like a BCH without the aft bubble (which begs to ask why that has never been suggested before).
Shifting gears for a moment and taking a look at the Fed CA we all know and love. It appears to come in six (6) flavors:
-- CA (Y130) Base model
-- CAR (Y160) Adds the 2x Ph-1/RA
-- CA+ / CAR+ (Y165) Adds the APR, 1x Drone rack, 2x Ph-3, and more # 3/4/5 shielding
-- CA+a / CAR+a (Y170) Upgrades ARP to AWR
Logically, the upgrade path would be: CA --> CAR --> CAR+ --> CAR+a
But is there any reason a particular ship might not take either of these paths:
CA --> CA+ --> CAR+ --> CAR+a
CA --> CA+ --> CA+a --> CAR+a
Or perhaps combine two of the steps at once, or even skip straight from CA to CAR+a ??
Or am I over-thinking it all???
Garth L. Getgen
Garth:
About the Fed CA.
This progression has been suggested and posted before.
Your notations appear to be correct. I don’t recall either steve commenting about it, perhaps there isn’t much else to say about it?
I do know that both steves have commented on YIS dates on ships in general, often in a response to a players question of why vanilla refits might show up decades after new refits appeared.
Not complaining, just noting that it has been discussed from time to time.
That said, I personally do not expect to see any kind of listing as to when every hull recieved a refit and what type.
Much rather see new products published, not filling in ship histories.
Jeff, no, I would not want a "historical listing of refits" either. There's no reason to lock things down like that.
But if someone were to run a campaign where players need to track refits, these are valid options. Or one could write a fiction piece (not me!!) in which a ship from a backwater fleet is called to the front lines without having all the latest / greatest toys installed.
I do totally agree with SVC/SPP in that just because a refit is released does NOT mean every ship in the fleet instantly gets the refit. You can't take a whole class of ships out of service for several weeks / a few months to install the new hardware. It takes years to cycle all of them thru the line. A second refit might come out while some ships are still waiting for the first refit.
The only reason I even noticed the differences is because I dusted off a very old project I started two computers ago. I wanted to create a set of SSDs that showed the plain-vanilla ship and then with each refit added. For example here's the Fed CA. I was going to make myself a book with pages like this for every ship in the game. Yeah, that's never going to happen. After doing two or three of these, I just don't have the time or energy to do more. I have one for the Gorn CL/CA, hence the question up-topic about a CL-leader.
Garth L. Getgen
Garth,
Thank you for sharing your work!
I think it was a good thought, but sadly, not everyone will agree.
Party poopers. 
It is a good thing you are still working on your various projects. waiting and hoping for some more of those!
You did a great job on the deck plans for the APT and POL.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. That means a lot, really. I do have another project that will blow your mind if I figure out where/how to post it. I might put it on the FedCmdr board.
What I want to get back to is more fiction writing. Too many story ideas cooking in my brain and not enough time to sit and type them out.
Garth L. Getgen
The CLH may be more of a mercy ship vs. just a combat trauma center.
From the Mercy Ship web site:
In 2021, Mercy Ships will launch our newest ship, the Global Mercy to further our life-changing mission around the world. As the world’s first purpose-built civilian hospital ship, it will embark with more volunteer doctors and nurses to bring 6 state-of-the-art operating rooms and more than 200 additional hospital beds to the developing world.
Combined with the Africa Mercy, the Global Mercy will double our ability to provide life-changing surgeries. Plus, with dedicated classrooms to train local medical professionals, it will greatly increase our ability to strengthen healthcare in the places we serve.
Why do the older printings of the Early Years freighters list them as Y-FL and Y-SL respectively, when a newer printing of the Early Years of my friends shows them as UFL and UFS?
The Y designation seems to make much more sense than U.
Can anyone explain?
I can only guess, Rusman, but might the "U" stand for "Unarmed?"
IIRC, the Y-FL and Y-SL were both unarmed (in contrast to the popguns on standard, GW-era freighters).
However, IMIO (In My Insane Opinion ), the "Y-" term fits better, unless there're some plans to publish either armed Early Years freighters (or they've already been published), in which case making use of "Unarmed" may keep from having a designation that goes on unnecessarily long.
The "U" stands for unarmed, since they don't even have a Ph-3 among them.
Module Y3 does include "armed freighters", but these are "armed freighters with bigger engines" armed freighters, not "normal freighters with a Ph-3". I presume that if a Y4 is ever done, it would likely include some of the latter.
The Lyran BCE has 20-box #3-4-5 shields that upgrade to 30-boxes with the plus refit.
The Lyran BC has 24-box #3-4-5 shields that upgrade to 28-boxes with the plus refit.
The Lyran BCH has 28-box #3-4-5 shields.
Is the BCE correct or should it have 28-box shields as well when refitted? Seems strange an older hull would have better rear shields.
While it may not have been intentional and could easily be a mistake of sorts, it is published and doesn't matter.
So ... it is correct and now what is intended. Pick your favorite justification as to why the discrepancy exists. It could just be "how it worked out" with how the shield generators worked.
It's not formally published though, it is in Captain's Log.
Fair enough. Then submit a line item on the issue and see if it was an accident or intentional.