Been musing about this base under siege.

How large is the Klingon assault force? Are they keeping that immense 19 hex range?

Also, is this the range from the base itself, or is this the range from the outermost ring of Web?

Regardless, are they clustered on one side, or do they have some watching the far side of the base as well?

Also, what sort of mobile defenders are present at the base? We've discussed the fighters and Gunboats, but what about ships? Perhaps a PC or two...

IF the Klingons are clustered at one side, the Tholians can have Arachnid PWs (and ships, if any) reinforce the outermost layer of Web with impunity. If the Klingons have part of their attack fleet watching the far side to compensate, then doesn't the great distance (the nineteen hexes) make for an isolated element, vulnerable to a counterattack? Even if the Klingon fleet is split 50/50, the Tholians can row up ALL of their mobile defenders to face just one of the groups.

Behind that first layer of the wedding cake, the Tholian mobile units will have that -0 penalty from (G10.62), so a small, isolated group would not only be isolated, but would also probably be pretty well outgunned.

I think that, unless they've got some Seltorians in support, the Klingons may have to lodge a ship or three into the Web from multiple sides to have any hope of wearing the Web down.

(SIGH! I know what I WANT to say, but just can't say it clearly!)

By Michael F Guntly (Ares) on Saturday, March 09, 2024 - 10:05 am: Edit

Jeff, I think Alan's last post was discussing laying siege to the base, not attacking the base. They would be attempting to "starve" the base by preventing re-supply. Hence no need to dive into the web. this attacking ships would maintain distance and mobility.

By Mike Erickson (Mike_Erickson) on Saturday, March 09, 2024 - 11:38 am: Edit

To defend the base I'd consider just using Patrol Corvettes (PC).

Compared to AR-P or AR-PW, you get 4xP1 that can fire to max P1 range, and every PC has web generators (rather than most likely 2 of 6 in a PF flotilla) to contribute to web maintenance and strengthening.

Relatively cheap BPV, and well known for decades for annoying the Klingons by hiding behind webs and sniping with their P1.

And, I love the historical flavor that PC brings to the game. Those plucky Tholians, desperately fighting to hold off the DSF, using an inadequately sized fleet of undersized ships.

--Mike

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Saturday, March 09, 2024 - 12:57 pm: Edit

There's a problem with the indefinite siege scenario, in that it requires the Klingons to achieve one of two things:
1. Complete strategic surprise.
2. Tying down almost the entire Tholian navy at other locations for many years.

Pulling from F&E, an SB can support an entire _fleet_ with routine supplies for _years_ while disconnected from its empire's supply grid. It is likely that this represents extensive wartime stockpiling of resources that wouldn't normally happen during peacetime. Thus, if the Klingons achieve strategic surprise, they might be able to run the SB and any supporting ships out of supplies in a reasonable time frame. Absent that scenario, however, a pure sitzkrieg will go on for years.

If the Klingons don't achieve strategic surprise and are attempting a years-long siege, where the [BLEEP] is the rest of the Tholian navy? If years pass with no attempt at relief, that probably means the Tholians have been destroyed as a functional mobile military force and the SB has become strategically irrelevant.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Saturday, March 09, 2024 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Mike Erickson;

But why use just PC?. More likely, a base defense would consist of a combination of actual warships, PFs, and fighters. In the period in question, I suspect a "typical" Tholian BATS would be defended by an Arachnid-P flotilla, a fighter squadron (mixed Spider-IIP and Spider-III) and about 4 PCs, one or two of which are actually PCXs.

Larger bases or BATS that were in critical locations would generally have more defenses, which might include a web tender or some other freighter-based auxiliary warship, a higher proportion of PCXs, or a CPA (the "phaser boat" version of the Archeo-Tholian CA, with disruptors replaced by phaser-1s).

I would generally not expect dreadnoughts, web caster-equipped warships, or X-ships larger than PCXs to be assigned specifically for defense of an individual base, thought at any given time some may be patrolling near by.

Also; a note on Arachnid-PFs in base defense; You could form the flotillas into two pinwheels based on the two -W models. Since only one web generator is required to hold the pinwheel toogether, the other could be used to reinforce the web (though not lay new web hexes). Since this would allow all the power of the three PFs (except for housekeeping and the energy to hold the pinwheel together) to be used for web reinforcement, the flotilla, with two pinwheels, can put more energy per turn into reinforcement than a Tholian dreadnought or X-cruiser could. It could even put in more reinforcing energy than a Tholian battleship, had any actually existed in this galaxy.

Whether I would choose to use my PFs in this manner would depend on the tactical situation. But it does provide me the option to generate huge amounts of reinforcing energy.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Saturday, March 09, 2024 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Ares, you are quite correct; it WAS a siege post.

In my defense, though, IIRC, the Neo-Tholians arrived pretty darned late. Again, IF I remember right, when they arrived, it was at a low point of pressure on the Tholians by the Klingons because the latter had been pushed back pretty far by the Federation and were trying to keep lines of communication open with the Romulans.

(The Neo-Tholian reference was due to this thread starting with a proposal for NOT having Web Casters on bases...)

Since the Klingons were being pushed back, would they have the necessary "Spare Ships" to be devoted to a months, if not YEARS long siege? How long was the supply chain to this base under siege, and how well protected was this supply line from Federation (or Kzinti or Gorn) harassment?

I just couldn't imagine the Klingons being able to continue to support the necessary besieging forces.

Alan, the Gunboat pinwheel idea is BRILLIANT! Methinks having a PC use its tractors to rotate the pinwheel into (and out of) the Web while the Base gives it all the ECM protection it can would minimize the risk to the Gunboats.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, March 10, 2024 - 01:52 pm: Edit

It might be relevant to more closely consider how this change would affect the defence of Holdfast Tholian bases against Seltorian and/or Andromedan opposition.

While the Torch expedition never quite reached the critical mass required to seriously threaten the Holdfast sphere itself before the ISC launched their own decisive intervention, those smaller bases in the outermost ring of Tholian hexes might still have to take such dangers into account - even after the Klingons withdrew their own active support of the Seltorian campaign.

In contrast, the Andromedans posed a bespoke threat to Holdfast bases in their own right, at least prior to the discovery of the RTN. Not least over in the "dark future" timeline, where they managed to get the Devastator and Devourer battleships - and the dissection beams installed on the latter variant - into active service.

-----

Also, should the Tholian bases back in the home galaxy have their web casters replaced also, or are conditions over in M81 different enough to warrant leaving them in place?

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, March 10, 2024 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Gary,

Personally I would prefer that NO Tholian bases had web casters. But at least in M81 the Tholians seem to be able to deploy and maintain web casters in large numbers. So web casters on bases in M81 are not materially weakening the mobile fleets, the way they are in the Milky Way. The conditions are different in that respect.

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding Seltorians and Andromedans. How do web casters on bases help against either of those enemies? More phasers on those bases would be better, just as they would against Klingons or Romulans. I continue to believe the ideal Tholian base has as much phaser-4 firepower as the base can handle. The question I have is whether 18xph-4s on a Tholian star base is "too good" for game balance purposes, and whether my suggested 12xphaser-4s backed up by 20xph-1s would be a better option from a game play standpoint. Obviously, the Tholians would rather have 18xph-1s on their star bases if that is possible. But maybe a revised translation of those Air Force tapes shows that the engineering wouldn't actually support that many phaser-4s on a star base. Maybe what the tapes really showed was that the 18xph-4 version was what the Tholians tried to build. But ultimately they couldn't make it work and fell back on the 12xph-4 + 20xph-1 version as the next best option.

But I don't see how the Seltorians or Andromedans really change that.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Sunday, March 10, 2024 - 03:06 pm: Edit

By the way, I've argued before that the two empires active in Alpha during the SFB time frame that actually scare me from a technology aspect are the Andromedans and the Hydrans. Obviously an empire like the Klingons or Federation might eventually swamp the Tholians by weight of numbers. But in a non-historical strategic campaign in which all players had comparable economies, I would be far more worried about Andromedans or Hydrans than any other opponent. Seltorians in the Milky Way? Even if you give them their conjectural X-ships, plus the ability to build dreadnoughts and BCHs in this galaxy, I think I can handle them as long as they have equal economic resources.

The scary thing about the bugs is that, at least as I understand it, they can breed so quickly that they can populate and exploit the resources of planets in much less time than anyone else. So even if their planets have the same total resources as other empires, the bugs might extract those resources within a few years rather than decades, or a few decades rather than centuries. So at least short term they have a huge economic advantage compared to anyone else and they can use that short term advantage to build huge fleets to conquer more planets and convert the short term advantage into a long term one. But the Tholian technology is superior, if they have the time to build out their forces.

By Jeff Anderson (Jga) on Monday, March 11, 2024 - 12:01 am: Edit

Alan? Imagine the Tholians USING Hydran technology. "Spider" fighters with fusion beams and Gatling phasers, riding along webs to get to Range Zero with attackers...

(To BOTH Steves: This is ABSOLUTELY NOT meant as ANY sort of proposal, not for Nightmares, not for Stellar Shadows, NOWHERE, NIX, NUN, NADA!!!)

(I do NOT need to run into yet another lynching attempt by honest, serious fans of the SFU!!)

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, March 12, 2024 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Eh... Tholians having gatling phaser technology would be cool but I think there are better foreign technologies for the Tholians than fusion beams. Note that those "Hydranized" Spider fighters could only use fusion beams in circumstances in which the enemy would also have clear line of site to them, and thus be able to fire on them.

And "riding along webs to get to Range Zero with attackers"? First of all, the enemy shoots the fighters at range-1 so only those that survive this fire (uncrippled) would get to use their fusions and gatlings at "Range Zero" in the first place. And if any appreciable number of these fusion-and-gatling fighters did reach Range Zero, there would be a high probability of them dying when the target ship blows up. If they fire from a different hex, the strength of the web reduces the explosion strength and the fighters survive.

By Jeff Guthridge (Jeff_Guthridge) on Tuesday, March 12, 2024 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Alan, I don't think you'll find many sympathetic ears for more gatlings in the game, anywhere. I think Mr. Anderson may well find his usual appointment with the booth enhanced for the suggestion.

But lets play devil's advocate and run down this tangent.

Note, the gatlings are a glass-chin weapon, yes they offer the best dependably predictable damage per point of power in the game, but the drawback is that you loose THREE BOXES of SSD for that half-price power discount.

They excel in roles where the space is small (Hydran hulls, fighters, etc al) but if there is space, the Kzinti solution offers more phaser padding to protect the bigger guns and limit the overall effect of Mizia attacks.

Tholians traditionally have small hulls and not much space to spare so there is an argument for the PH-Gs in that, however... They also are severly limited in their manufacturing abilities and so that precludes the Ph-Gs outright as it is easier and cheaper to build Ph-3's in pairs, trios, or even quads than to build a single Ph-G if your empire fields them in the first place.

Next, for gatlings to generate damage worthy of the use, they need to fire at range 2 or less, and the proposed change this thread is about is about removing the point-blank-range phasers altogether.

This seems to be on point if your going to pair the Ph-G equipped fighter with fusion charges and let the things ride web to get to the target caught in web. However, as you point out, they won't get to range zero without getting fired on at range one (G10.61). Even if the fighters/PFs fire at range one, the payoff might well be worth it when you have have other units (like the Ph-4's on the base) follow up on the next impulse...

The power of coordinated timed fire is like that. Dent, ding, then crush! When you have coordinated fire like that, you don't need R0 to wreck starships. This leads me to think that R1 volleys would be the sound tactical choice because, as you say, if the ship pops and the fighter is at R0, its a bad day for the pilot. At R1, they are going to draw fire, and if they are crippled but have already used their weapons charges, they have the chance to return and get repaired and reloaded, rather than a fire&forget suicide charge.

Again, if the fight is happening at the base, and it's the base's webs the units are riding, then you have coordinateble follow up fire, so you don't need R0, R1 is fine, and you don't really need the Ph-G's either as the fusions will bent the shields for the Ph-4's to murderize the target.

Remember that the justification of this whole enterprise (pun intended) is to replace easier to make Phaser-1's for the always-in-limited-supply Web Casters. Adding Ph-G's is working against that original premise.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Tuesday, March 12, 2024 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Jeff G,

First of all, I wasn't seriously suggesting the Tholians should actually get gatling-phase technology. I was simply responding to Jeff A's post. But secondly, you misunderstand how I would use the ph-Gs if I could produce them, even in limited numbers. If I (playing Tholians) could actually produce a few phaser-Gs, I would most definitely not mount any on the base itself. They would go on fighters and, presuming I can't build enough to arm all my fighters, those gatling-armed fighters (depending on exact configuration; I'm thinking of a Spider-III except that the two ph-3s are replaced by a single ph-G) would go on the Neo-Tholian Space Control Ship, probably the "non-heavy fighter" slots on the CVH, and as the fighter for the most critical bases, rather than on the base itself.

As to how I would use them in base defense; I have previously stated I believe the most efficient legal Tholian base defense squadron (for single-size fighters) is 6 Spider-IIP (one phaser-2 and one phaser-3) and 6 Spider-III (two phaser-III). I'm ignoring EW fighters for purposes of this analysis (including them would change the number slightly but not the final conclusions) and I'm assuming I can legally concentrate my Spider-Gs in a few complete squadrons and ditch the "mixed fighter type" squadrons the Tholians are peculiarly enamored of.

Consider the two squadrons firing at range 3, which is a very important range for Tholian base defense. (Klingon attackers have assaulted the outermost web ring and surviving defenders have pulled back behind the middle ring, where they can hit the attackers without suffering return fire.) The "standard base defense squadron" (well, I think it should be standard...) with 6 phaser-2s and 18 phaser-3s will do 39 points of damage per turn at that range; a useful amount since it will be inflicted turn after turn after turn after turn... But the 12 phaser-Gs in the "Spider-G" squadron would inflict 48 points per turn. Against a really determined assault the range might get closer eventually, in which case the numbers (at range 2) become 77 points for the "standard" squadron versus 144 points for the Spider-G squadron. Note finally that this ignores EW shifts and adding those in degrades phaser-3s and gatling-phasers more than it does the Spider-IIPs' phaser-2s, at the critical range-3. The "standard" squadron would inflict 26 points per turn with a +1 EW shift at 3 hexes, which actually beats the 24 points from the Spider-G squadron under the same conditions, though the Spider-G squadron is still superior at range 2, even against the shift.

All in all, the gatling phasers do improve things under the stated assumptions but not so decisively as might initially be supposed. As for the fusion beams, since they only help under circumstance in which the enemy also gets a shot back at my fighters, the Hydrans can keep them. Other foreign technologies would help more.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Sunday, March 17, 2024 - 07:25 pm: Edit

There are some historical cases in which the Andromedans launched a single wave of Motherships at a given base and/or planet in a given engagement: see the attack on the Romulan starbase Sanguinax from SFB Module X1, to given an example of this.

However, there are also cases in which the Andros would gather a larger number of Motherships in a given region, so as to launch waves of attacks on a target in quick succession. Consider the Fall of Demorak mini-campaign in Module C3A, or their attack on Korlivala as portrayed in Module X1R.

In the latter case, the damage done to Korlivala's fixed defences in the first wave, plus the frantic attempts by the ISC to restore what they could prior to the onset of the second wave, are handled "off-camera": the scenario as written shows the net effect of this as it stood by the time the Echelon of Judgment arrived on the scene.

But in the former case, it's up to the Andromedan and LDR players to keep running tabs from one wave (or combat round) to the next; each side has only a limited amount of repair work they can put in before the next round is to be fought.

-----

Of course, this concept is nothing new for the Tholian Holdfast over in Federation and Empire: during Operation Nutcracker, stacks of Coalition warships would each generate a number of successive combat rounds to be fought over each battle hex. Although the Holdfast had no web casters at all - let alone ones on their bases - for most of that campaign.

While there are no Revolt-era scenarios in F&E as of yet, one could picture the largest pitched battles of that era involving similar rounds of combat being fought over key points on a would-be M81 Galaxy map - to perhaps include over the ancestral home world of Tholia Prime.

But in theory, one could modify the Fall of Demorak campaign in order to represent a large-scale Andromedan attack on a given Holdfast base in SFB terms.

So what would such a mini-campaign tell us?

-----

For one thing, there are limits in that mini-campaign as to how much repair and replenishment work the LDR defenders (or, for that matter, the Andromedan attackers) can put in between combat rounds. Presumably there would be equivalent limits between combat rounds for defending Tholians, as well.

The Holdfast base might start with a fully prepared "wedding cake" - but should each wave of Andromedans seek to pick off the web anchors one by one, how quickly can new ones be set in place in time for the next?

Further, since the Andros have those handy displacement devices and transporters to call upon, the order in which they might try to cut the cake might be quite different to what, say, a Klingon - or even Seltorian - task force would be obliged to fight through.

Should this happen, any web casters on the base might be called upon to either cast free-standing web, or perhaps to be used as web fists, in order to deal with any Motherships or satellite ships who clear the innermost layer of pre-set web. Not least if the Andros are trying to launch hit-and-run or boarding operations against the base itself.

Or would it be better in this instance to turn to the proposed pairs of phaser-1s to try and fill enemy PA penels at such close ranges?

-----

To be clear, I'm not arguing in favour of keeping the web casters, be it on Holdfast or M81 bases, should it be deemed best to get rid of them.

But, given the bespoke challenges posed to the Holdfast during the Andromedan War, I ask wiser minds than mine to consider the tactical implications of this proposed change, as it pertains to such opposition.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, March 18, 2024 - 12:37 pm: Edit

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Quote:

The Holdfast base might start with a fully prepared "wedding cake" - but should each wave of Andromedans seek to pick off the web anchors one by one, how quickly can new ones be set in place in time for the next?

---

---

Quote:

Should this happen, any web casters on the base might be called upon to either cast free-standing web, or perhaps to be used as web fists, in order to deal with any Motherships or satellite ships who clear the innermost layer of pre-set web. Not least if the Andros are trying to launch hit-and-run or boarding operations against the base itself.

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---

Quote:

... I ask wiser minds than mine to consider the tactical implications of this proposed change, as it pertains to such opposition.

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By Terry O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Monday, March 18, 2024 - 11:03 pm: Edit

I don't have the SSD, but prior to the recovery of web caster technology, were the web casters not web generators? Given that WCs can function as WGs, Tholians may simply regard the WCs as generators with a direct-fire function, rather than as devices intended to cast web. It gives them multiply-redundant defensive devices (web generators) rather than offensive devices (phasers), but Tholian doctrine seems to emphasize the tactical defensive.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, March 18, 2024 - 11:34 pm: Edit

No. As originally depicted, Tholian starbases had 18 phaser-4s and 15 phaser-3s and 6 web generators. the web caster refit replaces 6 of the phaser-4s with web casters. The base still retains the 6 web generators.

By Mike Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, March 19, 2024 - 08:00 am: Edit

Yeah, that makes no sense. The WC refit weakens the base defense. At best I could see some of the WC replace generators.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Thursday, March 28, 2024 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Gary Carney;

I've been considering whether I needed to expand on my Monday, March 18, 2024 - 12:37 PM answer to your Sunday, March 17, 2024 - 07:25 PM post. Your post mentioned the possibility that successive waves of Andromedans might "... seek to pick off the web anchors one by one...", and I responded;

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Quote:

To put this as clearly as I know how; the Tholians should almost never be relying on web anchors for defense of main bases. They are better off going with straightforward globular webs, in the overwhelning majority of cases.

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By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Friday, March 29, 2024 - 04:25 pm: Edit

I still think siege operations will work. The Tholian fleet is much smaller that when it had a galaxy at is beck and call. And a Tholian base that is powering its webs is using up fuel, Tholian ships which Come out to fight are offering themselves up for destruction (albeit they will go down fighting and will hurt me). being hurt is one of the unfortunate side effects of war.

By Stewart Frazier (Frazikar3) on Friday, March 29, 2024 - 06:40 pm: Edit

While a single GBDP isn't worth much it's the fact that there may be six or twelve (or more) adding together. Of course, there may be something other than a Ph-4, like additional attrition units or GWS. It would be the combination within arc of invading foe to look at, is his attention on just A Ph-4 shooting at him or a 'swarm' of Spiders/Arachnids vectoring in. [Some of the earlier Captain's Log had a 'Rocky Road' series about some combinations that could be used on those asteroids (IIRC)]

Plus, having the foe shooting at the anchor isn't doing anything to the other mobile defenders unless one is going after all six anchors at the same time …

Then there's the fog of war bit, when was the attack planned and when were the additional defenses added … (was that flurry of freighters sent in carrying extra defenses or supplies for the upcoming siege) …

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, March 29, 2024 - 07:03 pm: Edit

SPP,

I'm not disagreeing about siege operations per se. But to bring this back to my original proposal that started this topic, I still don't see web casters on bases making Tholian bases better against sieges. Against either siege or "storming the battlements", I want my bases (playing as a Tholian) to have absolutely horrendous phaser firepower. I think that approach, and having my web casters on warships (especially X-cruisers and dreadnoughts) maximizes my chances of making a Klingon invasion too paiful for them, given that they also have Hydrans (small navy overall, but they can concentrate a lot of combat power into a single battle fleet), Kzinti, and Feds to worry about.

I guess I see it this way. There are two pillars to Holdfast survival; incredibly good defensive technology and the fact that their main enemy can't mass their entire might against the Tholians because of those pesky Hydrans / Kzinti / Feds. And I think that's the issue with Klingons using siege tactics. It will require a huge amount of ships and time, and the Klingons will lose a lot of those ships. So I need to make my defenses so robust that the Klingons can't afford to tie up that many ships for that long, and can't afford the losses they would incur storming a well-supported Tholian base.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, March 29, 2024 - 10:02 pm: Edit

I guess I am confused by SPP’s last post.

Web casters are limited production items, are the not?

If true, and there is a limit on how many web casters are able to be produced by the Tholian Holdfast, then equipping every outpost, minor world and major world with multiple web casters is decidedly inappropriate.

Maximum number of weapons should be a priority, particularly the number of phasers (type IV, I etc.) in order to inflict maximum damage on any opponent foolish enough to attack any Tholian position.

Web casters on ships can be dispatched to the locations most threatened at any given time. And not even the Klingons are silly enough to attack all enemy positions at the same time. More likely they will concentrate their fleet attack at a series of locations in order achieve local superiority.

Its not like SPP will act like a Kzinti!

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 01, 2024 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Tholian Order of Battle versus the Klingons. Sure, it requires a lot of Klingon ships to besiege the the Tholians, but you are not considering COALITION forces and Diplomacy. The Tholians have the problem that they have no REAL allies, and the Klingons could have the Romulans on their side. The Federation can be kept out of the fight since the matter is a Klingon "internal matter." So, the General War was an aberration (which historically occurred). But if it hadn't, the Romulans would have at least provided ships to keep the Tholians off balance, and hiring a few Orions on top would seal the deal. But the Klingons wound up supporting the Lyrans against the Kzintis to start the General War. But they busted through the Tholians to hit he Dyson sphere once before, and only the lack off ships stopped them then. Getting allies to hit the Tholians would in the Siege situation would take that into account.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, April 01, 2024 - 03:08 pm: Edit

SPP,

Some counterpoints, if I may...

1. The Tholian fleet is small but their space is compact. They won't have a lot of X-ships by raw numbers but they do have a lot "per hex" compared to the major empires. The Klingons could bring in more X-ships in total numbers but this would leave their Fed, Kzinti, and Hydran borders dangerously week, even if the Klingons are not at war with any of those powers at the moment.

2. I believe that both X-ships and PFs cause a "qualitative shift" in favor of Tholian base defenders, especially in conjunction with the reduced costs to reinforce web. Take a "balanced" Klingon assault against a wedding cake. Then add a PF flotilla to each side, or upgrade one ship (of comparable class - DD/DDX versus F5/F5X, or CW/CWX versus D5/D5X) on each side to X-tech. The assault iis no longer balanced. It favors the Tholians. They gain more from that PF flotilla or that X-tech upgrade than the Klingons do.

There are, I think, two reasons for this. One is that the increased power available to the Tholians means it can keep the outer webs up longer, meaning more turns of unanswered phaser-4 fire against the attacker. The second reason is that the increased Tholian phaser firepower will inflict damage every turn while the increased firepower available to the Klingons only inflicts damage if they have a clear line-of-fire. A Tholian DDX and Klingon F5X are a reasonably close match in open space. But in a web fight, the DD/DDX upgrade increases the total damage the Klngons will suffer over the course of the battle by significantly more than the F5/F5X upgrade increases the damage the Tholians will suffer.

3. How does the siege tactic justify web casters on bases, rather than maximum phaser firepower on bases and web casters on warships? I just don't see it. I could see the advantage of web casters, compared to more phasers, if the Tholian base had no defending webs. But why would it fight like that? Especially, why would a base important enough to justify inclusion of the rare web casters be left with no long-term web defenses?

4. How much will it cost to hire Orions to assault a webbed base? Where's the profit in suicide? (Yeah, I know the Orion ship was on a suicide mission in Journey to Babel. I would argue that that was "an aberration" and not comparable to assaulting Tholian defenses.)

To be clear, I'm not saying the Tholians could hold out if the Klingons really could commit their entire might against them for a long period of time. And if the Klingons do attempt to conquer the Holdfast I believe "siege" tactics are probably their best bet. But I don't see this as an argument for webs on bases. On the contrary; bases behind webs, with humongous phaser fire power, and Tholian battle fleets with strong web caster support, would maximize the pain the Klingons would suffer and could be the factor that tips the balance to the point where the Klingons might decide it's not worth it, at least not at the present time (Hydrans acting up, Feds making noises about supporting Tholians with massive economic aide even if the Feds don't engage in actual combat).