Archive through June 12, 2024
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: New Product Development:
Module C4R: Back to the Simulators:
MODULE C4R#:
Archive through June 12, 2024
Nice catch Mike. I completely missed that, just going by the title.
... and I made it, too.
The new CVS trades 12 fighters for four disruptors and a lab. Not sure if the trade is actually worth it. (It retains the reduced phaser suite of the CV, too, unfortunately.)
Britanian (Missing):
Base Hull: BB, BCH, NCA, HDW, HCW, CL, DD, Heavy POL, POL.
Leaders (all missing): CCH, CC, NCA, CW, CL, DW, DD, FF.
Fast (all missing): BBL, DN, CF, CW, NCA.
Carriers (all missing): BBV, SDS, CVA, SCS, BCV, BCS, CVS, CVD, ACS, DCS, NCA, CV, patrol carrier, scout carrier, CL, DW, DD, FF, POL.
Escorts (all missing): NCA, CW, CL, DW, DD, FF.
Commando: NCA, CW, CL, DD, FF.
Minesweeper: CW, CL, DD, FF.
Scouts: NCA, CW, CL, DD, FF. Survey ships.
PF Tenders (all missing): NCA, CW, DW.
Transports (all missing): TG, NCA, CW, DW, DD, FF, Pods.
Police Flagship.
Drone (there is a DWD): CA?, NCA?, CW, CL, DD, DD.
Generics (all missing): Starbase, Battle Station, Base Station, Monitor, Def Sat, Ground Bases.
Interceptors, PFs, fighters, heavy fighters, Bombers, Heavy Fighters, Bombers, Heavy Bombers.
Hispanolian (Missing):
Base Hull: BB, BCH, NCA, HDW, HCW, CL, DD, FF, Heavy POL, POL.
Leaders (all missing): CCH, CC, NCA, CW, CL, DW, DD, FF.
Fast (all missing): BBL, DN, CF, CW, NCA.
Carriers (all missing): BBV, SDS, CVA, SCS, BCV, BCS, CVS, CVD, ACS, DCS, NCA, CV, patrol carrier, scout carrier, CL, DW, DD, FF, POL.
Escorts (all missing): NCA, CW, CL, DW, DD, FF.
Commando: NCA, CW, CL, DD, FF.
Minesweeper: CW, CL, DD, FF.
Scouts: NCA, CW, CL, DD, FF. Survey ships.
PF Tenders (all missing): NCA, CW, DW.
Transports (all missing): TG, NCA, CW, DW, DD, FF, Pods.
Police Flagship.
Drone (there is a DWD): CA?, NCA?, CW, CL, DD, DD.
Generics (all missing): Starbase, Battle Station, Base Station, Monitor, Def Sat, Ground Bases.
Interceptors, PFs, fighters, heavy fighters, Bombers, Heavy Fighters, Bombers, Heavy Bombers.
Watched Das Boot the other night and it got me thinking about FRAX Submarines.
Catfish Drone armed variants?
If playing with hidden cloak rules, I can also imagine a minelayer variant that can REALLY protect a surface group.
SVC:
While looking for the available A-series rule numbers to use for various simulator empire ships, I noticed something in G3. There are a set of Canadi'en ships with a "Where Published" listed as "Strlttr". At the bottom of the section, there is a note that says, "Strlttr: These ships appeared in an issue of Starletter and will be posted on the Starfleet Bulletin Board." Near as I can tell, that is no longer the case. Would it be possible for these ships to be posted on the website somewhere?
Thanks!
You'd have to ask Petrick if he has them, or find a hard copy he can reproduce.
Someone sent me a copy of the PDFs. Let me know if you need a copy yourself.
The Starletters that were found and scanned are posted here- http://www.starfleetgames.com/starletter.shtml
If anyone has additional Starletters that are not posted it would be greatly appreciated if we could fill in the missing issues.
Believe it or not, I have been slowly working on this. I am now trying to finish off what I'm gonna do with the Frax. I have three groups of ships: Done (or going to do), Not Going to Do, and Decided Don't Exist.
Done Ships (though not all are yet submitted):
ACS, DCS, CSV, FFV, PV
HDW, CWH, PFF
ACA, CAM, CAD
DWT, DWP
FFG, FFS, FFT, FLG
NCC, NCA, NCF, NCV, NSC
Not Going to Do:
BBL, BBV, SDS, CWF, Pods, Generics, INT
Decide Don't Exist:
CVS, NCE, NCG, NCP, NTG, ADN, ABC, NCM, NCD, FFM, SND
Reasoning for various things:
- I'm not going to screw with the BB variants because they are monsters and, for the BBV and SDS, there is literally no way to fit everything the page is supposed to contain on a single page that doesn't result in microscopic print and boxes. So, no.
- I skipped the CWF because I have never seen one used or referenced anywhere or in anything. I figure the Klingon programmers just didn't bother.
- I could do the INT, but didn't. I figure that by the time the programmers finished with INTs, they already had the PFs on the way. It just wasn't worth the time to finish the INTs and they purely focused on the PFs. And, like the CWF, I haven't ever really seen INTs used anywhere.
- For pods, just use standard Klingon pods. I figure the programmers would be lazy and just do that. No point to make things complicated.
- Same for bases and generics: just use Klingon designs, but remove the security stations.
- I decided that the programmers were happy with the base carriers' lack of weapons. The NCV will be a notable exception, but that's what it is: the notable exception. Therefore, there are no "strike carriers" based on the CA or CW hull. Ergo, no CVS or CWVS.
- The only additional stasis ship I added was the CA (ACA). I decided to not bother with the ADN, ABC, or ANCA. They can live with the ACA and ACW.
- The extra engine for the NCA is on the bottom, preventing it from ever becoming a tug.
- The programmers didn't bother with the escort, commando, mauler, or drone versions of the NCA. They figured the CW versions of these were good enough and the NCA hull had more valuable uses in other roles.
- There is no DN submarine as the submarine role and the DN role don't intersect.
Once these are completed, I will start working on the Qari.
Today, Jean green-lit the idea of a future series of three or four modules, possibly: C4R1, C4R2, C4R3, and C4K which might be totally reorganized before they see print. (There are of course C4Y123 and C4X123 which could be considered as well.) The current idea is for Mike West to run with the ball and sometime this summer we'll see where he got and what the path looks like.
Oooh, this is very exciting. I'd love to see these empires get fleshed out more
Update on the Frax.
- I did the CWF after all.
- I did the ADN because it is time coincident with the ACA. I didn't do the ANCA or ABC, as I figured the programmers weren't as fascinated by the possibilities of the SFG by the time those designs showed up.
- I did the mauler NCA after all, but still didn't do the other NCA variants I mentioned earlier. The one possible exception would be the NCD because that can be made very, very quickly if we need one extra at the end.
Other than that, I think the Frax are done and I'm now working on the Qari.
Hope you reconsider the Interceptors.
Why?
I have honestly never seen anyone really use interceptors. They are weak, slow, and are only relevant for one or two years. I wasn't going to make them because I honestly didn't see where anyone would even use them.
Also, the design is challenging, as it'll likely have two disruptors and one phaser. On a power starved ship, this will slow it down even more, reducing its effectiveness even more. Will anyone actually use it?
Historically, it's noted that the Zosman Marauders over in the Omega Octant sometimes made use of Interceptors, since it was reportedly more cost-effective for them to operate their Stealth fields relative to those on full-sized "volatile warp" Zosman PFs.
As a case of parallel development, perhaps the Frax INTs were made to look like submersibles, rather than surface vessels? Indeed, perhaps these "submersible' INTs might be the only type that can be attached to a Frax submarine?
That would certainly make for an interesting point of divergence between Frax INTs and PFs, perhaps.
Although, an alternative could be to offer a full-sized "submersible" PF, and have it be a parallel development to the "surface" PF - akin to how the Romulans have Centurions, StarHawks, and (a handful of) K1s.
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On a side note: it would be interesting to see a set of "volatile warp" Frax and/or Barbarian gunboats drawn up someday. Although that is a topic for a separate thread.
Because I'm an idjit, I imagined a FRAX INT that was built to simulate PT boats. It had four single-shot Type H drones and a 360 AFD.
Naturally, because no ship uses Type-H Drones (outside of a VERY few Drogues), the idea is stupid AND I KNOW IT.
I only bring it up because a somewhat less idiotic take on that idea is a PT boat (INT) with a pair of drone racks and a pair of Ph-3 360.
Without packs, it can still be dangerous; two Type-IV Drones per Gunboat for a full squadron is more than I'd want to face. If the racks are Type-C...
Type-B racks will keep it in the fight longer (good or bad? 
), but it can still (sort of) simulate how when PT boats aid in major fleet actions, they "Fire their wad" and then have to run, being unable to contribute anything beyond siting targets.
Type-E with the popguns upgraded to AFD would make these things terrors against anyone relying on fighter strikes.
As an alternative, I can imagine one with mine racks instead of drone racks. Wherever they've flown, the enemy has to be wary of a potential NSM.
With Booster Packs, I see little reason for these to NOT be able to zip around at Speed 31.
Anyhootch, that's just my 0.02 Quatloos on the subject.
Gary,
For the record, I've already designed and submitted both Frax submarine gunboats and Barbarian gunboats. (Honestly, I've done gunboats for all of the simulator empires.) They are all conventional and don't do anything horribly unexpected. That said, they are very nice gunboats.
Also, you have to keep in mind what interceptors are. They are functionally PF prototypes. If they made a submarine interceptor, then they would have submarine PFs. To get surface PFs, they'd need to start with surface interceptors. That's true of every single interceptor and base PF in the game. You can always see the echo of the interceptor still inside the PF. No one is going to make an interceptor, then make a totally different PF. That through-line has to exist.
Jeff,
You already have kind of what you are asking for in the Frax drone-PF variant. Not sure a crappier platform is going to help much.
And to be completely clear here, making interceptors is not the problem. I can make them easily enough and I'm more than willing to. It's just that I don't think they are worth the time to review and approve or worth the page they'd take to publish. I'm perfectly willing to be wrong, though. I've already changed my mind on a few I was going to do.
Good to read that Barbarian and Frax submarine gunboats are already drawn up.
Well, Alpha Octant ones, at least. Omega versions would also be welcome!
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In the case of Omega "volatile warp" gunboats, it turned out that most empires which acquired this technology skipped directly to full-sized PFs: only a handful bothered to build even a single "volatile warp" Interceptor sample.
That said, due to the variety in hull types which "volatile warp" engines allow for, as opposed to the more uniform designs imposed by the "hot warp" engines used for Alpha Octant gunboats, what one Omega empire considers a "PF" can vary widely from that of another. For example: the Drex PF is quite small by comparison to others of its kind - yet the Drex can field them in flotillas of eight! Meanwhile, the Iridani build perhaps the largest PFs seen anywhere in known space; however, they are deployed 4 to a flotilla, and have quite limited "casual" PF options. (Actually, the Iridani are also noted as deploying their own, as-yet-unprinted INTs for certain bespoke Quests.)
As for the Zosmans, we don't yet know what their INTs or PFs look like in print, though I have a few thoughts in that regard. Still, the point here is that the Zosmans would see the INT as a more suitable hull than the PF for certain missions, due to the aforementioned Stealth field advantage. (Given that the Zosmans are the chief "pirate" faction of Omega, this might involve missions that are smaller in scale, where keeping a low profile is at even more of a premium than is usually the case for them.)
My line of reasoning is that, in principle at least, there could be something comparable here. Perhaps there might be certain special operations in which the sub-INT would be less conspicuous, or perhaps benefit from a proportionally cheaper cloak cost, than the sub-PF - maybe something that might lend itself to a Prime Directive RPG mission or few?
Now, if a would-be sub-INT turned out not to have that comparative advantage over a sub-PF for such missions to that reportedly seen with the Zosmans, well and good. Even so, I thought the concept worth considering, on the off chance that some sort of viable use case could be found for it here.
Well, at least with the main empires, cloaking costs should be consistent and transferable. So, let's take a look at the Romulan Decurion and Centurion gunboats.
The Decurion has 9 power (4 warp, 4 boost, 1 impulse) and a cloak cost of 3/1. The Centurion has 15 power (6 warp, 6 boost, 2 impulse, 1 APR) and a cloak cost of 4/2. Despite having a numerically higher cloak cost, the Centurion has a lower relative cloak cost than the Decurion. So, I'm not seeing much room for an advantage here.
And regardless of how "hot warp" or "volatile warp" or whatever works elsewhere, in this part of the galaxy, gunboat designs and gunboat engines are fairly consistent. There really isn't much room to color outside the lines given the constraints that have been created for the operation of the main empires.
(And, yes, I know these are "simulator empires". However, for them to be useful and work how they need to work, they still have to work within the overall constraints given by how things are working in the "real world" of the published empires. Excepting, of course, of whatever constraints they are breaking as part of their base construction.)
Mjwest, that was EXACTLY what I was shooting for.
When INT were first introduced (to the game), they were said to have proven the concept of what eventually became the PFs, but also proved that a larger craft was needed.
Frax already have torpedo boats in the axion torpedo armed frigate and destroyer. Perhaps a frax axion torpedo armed PF is what Jeff Anderson is looking for
Hmmm. An axion armed PF should be quite doable. I'll go look at that.
I love interceptors; simple units to use. Besides, if you make them for the rest of the C4 empires Frax should get them too.
Whatever weapons it would have, it can still brin all fire power to bear on 4 out of 6 arcs.