The Federation is nothing but a Vulcan puppet state.

I can play most nights after 6pm eastern time.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, February 09, 2025 - 07:56 pm: Edit

I was talking more about just avoiding mirror matches and not the interfaces ability to handle that.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, February 09, 2025 - 08:27 pm: Edit

With three Fed teams out of 8? It's going to be Feds all the way down. There is no way to avoid mirror matches. Other than just blowing up all the Feds in R1.

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Sunday, February 09, 2025 - 09:09 pm: Edit

If we are ending a play session at the end of the turn, are we still held to the 20 minute for EA. From experience it seems I am always pushing later into the evening than I should to finish up a turn. Do we need to tack on 20 minutes for EA on top of that?

I would suggest that we do not enforce it if you are not continuing play.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Sunday, February 09, 2025 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Dave, I agree

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, February 09, 2025 - 09:18 pm: Edit

DH,
Nope, if you finish a turn and then save, the 20 minute EA restriction does not apply.

Be careful of my Lyran ships !
Don't make me pull out the wrenches, I prefer to use paint only for repairs !!
ROFL.

Good Luck all !!

Cheers
Frank

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Sunday, February 09, 2025 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Dont worry I have plenty of Catnip in my Commanders options.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 12:12 am: Edit

If players want to complete their EAF between sessions, the 20 minute rule does not apply.

In addition, for the first round, the 20 minute EAF rule is not enforced.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 11:24 am: Edit

Geof- maybe as a gauge for future interests, you guys could ballpark track how long in hours it is taking to finish these games. I did not sign up because I fear each round is going to take 20 hours and 3 months to play. Thanks!

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 11:28 am: Edit

A potentially fun idea would give everyone 2 tournament ships and give that a go. Maybe next tournament.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 06:32 pm: Edit

I can say by the set up the first two turns should be fast. It would also be good to know your opponent's forces and starting location for each side. So, you can set up your force and do all of the expendables. Even Your first turns EA. Save then load when battle starts.

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Assuming we get the fleets in hand. Game 1.2 Federation v Lyran will begin Tuesday at 8pm Eastern US.

By Dana Madsen (Madman) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Jack, I'll track my game time. I don't think it's going to be that bad, and I might be one of the slow ones, I'm going to have to stop to check for rule references on some things I haven't used for years.

Yes, it will be longer than a regular tourney game, but three or four nights over the course of 4 weeks should do it. While it's a bigger map, it's still fixed size. Once one side starts getting an advantage the extra BPV means it's going to end quicker in my experience. I was playing campaign rules in fleet engagements this rough size a few years ago but at year 175ish. Although that one, you wanted to preserve your fleet for the next round so you tended to run when you realized you couldn't win the mission.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Monday, February 10, 2025 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Hey Dave, Ed,

Yes, I sent the fleets & CO info by email so you guys can get started. Still waiting on Mr. MetalDog for CO ... but he's been busy with Sapphire 18.

Hey Jack,

I hear you, the time commitment is a little rough, but like Dana said, after the first or second clash, once it starts to go downhill, then there is a rush to try to disengage for the side that feels disadvantaged. If the winning fleet can keep the pressure on and trap the opponent so they cannot disengage (one side of the map only can be used for each fleet), then there could be a Decisive victory in the cards.

Since we are all bunch of old-School SFB-ers, and since the rulebook remains massive, it will take some time to get our sea-legs on, but once we get some experience, I expect it won't really take as much time as we fear. Afterall, SFBOL is a great tool for this kind of thing. There might be a lot of counters, but I think it is manageable. Fleet firepower can be a real killer, if the EW game is played well, and the Admiral waits for the right moment to strike.

Also, the main point is playing with all the fancy Y180 rules, without going into X-ship territory.

Anyway, I'm enjoying seeing what the players come up with for their fleets, and I've asked the players to track times of turn start, turn end, EAF start and end, so we can get an idea.

P.S.

Let's ponder the rules for a 2-v-2 tournament, or perhaps a 3-v-3. Might be best to use fixed teams, like Alliance vs Coalition ...
FED + ZIN + GRN
KLI + LYR + ROM

If some enterprising team says, for example ...
ISC + HYD + ORI
That's a pretty devastating combination.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, February 11, 2025 - 08:42 am: Edit

Hi Players,

Since Mr. MetalDog has yet to select his CO, I've revealed the forces only to opponents who have completed CO selection and verification, so they can begin planning, scheduling, etc.

Regarding the revealing of CO, what I’ll reveal is the forces, the exact shuttles & drogues by ship, the fleet BPV totals only for boarding parties, T-bombs/NSMs, drones. When we reveal the speed upgrades, that hints at the type IV loadout status, but those are governed by the limit rule anyway. It is just the “good stuff” drones that I feel should be hidden, just like a plasma could be fake or real ... that’s part of the game, so should not be revealed ahead of time. I think that combination of information hidden and revealed is fair, given the feedback in the conversations with players, and given how I intended the tournament to mirror the Module T situation from the beginning.

Please ask questions or leave comments here on this topic.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, February 11, 2025 - 04:43 pm: Edit

As noted in email, I'm not super concerned one way or the other, but it doesn't seem like knowing that the Kzinti CC has an armored heavy drone, and an armored regular drone, and a single space MWH drone, and then 2 regular type I drones in a particular rack would really matter, as when the Kzinti launches a drone from that rack, it is just "a drone" until it gets labbed (or does something, like blows up or whatever).

Again, I'm fine either way. But it doesn't seem like it actually matters that much.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Tuesday, February 11, 2025 - 05:51 pm: Edit

Geof once played a 2 on 2 at Origins, It ended up being Hydran Lyran vs Fed Klingon, only the allies started on opposite sides of the map.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, February 11, 2025 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Geof
I am currently watching the Feds and Lyrans starting their battle.
The fleets are R86 to start !?!?!?!?

Perhaps you may want to adjust the start positions to reflect a R30 start ?

Cheers
Frank

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, February 11, 2025 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Hey Frank,

Yes, the fleets start at long range. This was part of the original tournament, and until we play a few games, and get some feedback, I'm hesitant to change things. This gives the fleets time to get everything ready for contact with the enemies. For example, Lyrans want to drop of their PFs at speed zero and then accelerate to speed 15, and then get to to speed. There are many examples of things that various fleets want to do to get ready well before range 30.

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Tuesday, February 11, 2025 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Game 1.2 is underway. We did one turn in about 30 minutes after we spent about 30 minutes getting things ready for the start.

The fleets are down to Range 51. Needless to say that nothing much happened the first turn. Lyrans stealthily headed towards the middle at speed 23. The Feds were slipping along the XX07 row doing some ship maintenance at around speed 20ish.

Admiral WhiskerBurns is certain the Federation is unaware of the fleet. We will be able to pounce in a couple of turns...

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Wednesday, February 12, 2025 - 01:02 pm: Edit

A few questions and concerns. I have not submitted COs b/c IMHE COs are done pre-battle and are not fixed from battle to battle. I expected to do my COs at the that time. It does not take me long to do them and I am generally a pretty fast player, 500BPV is really not that difficult to run or play in a timely manner.

am I supposed to submit a fixed CO list for the entire tournament vs all opponent's? THAT seems contrary to my experience, please clarify, thank you.

Also, speed of play and time to complete matches should not be a huge concern, players that signed up should be comfortable with running 500bpv no?

I can do my COs but expect to do them before my round 1 game as part of set up?? Also do we have to reveal our drn load outs??!! THAT is not correct IMHE. Please clarify, thank you.

Lastly, I would seriously ask that we avoid mirror matches as much as possible. Once again, even considering allowing one side to choose an appropriate race and the EXACT same ship equivalents with the other players approval.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Wednesday, February 12, 2025 - 01:05 pm: Edit

also, are we using energy balance due to damage? Hopefully, yes.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, February 12, 2025 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Justin wrote:
>>A few questions and concerns. I have not submitted COs b/c IMHE COs are done pre-battle and are not fixed from battle to battle.>>

Correct. You select them when you see the empire of your opponent, and then submit them to the judge for checking.

>>am I supposed to submit a fixed CO list for the entire tournament vs all opponent's?>>

No, you see the empire of your opponent, and then select your CO's for that match. And then submit them to the judge.

>>Lastly, I would seriously ask that we avoid mirror matches as much as possible.>>

There isn't a reasonable way to do that. There are no mirror matches in the first round. But with 3 Fed forces, the likelyhood of a mirror match at some point is high.

>>also, are we using energy balance due to damage? Hopefully, yes.>>

No.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, February 12, 2025 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Geoff wrote:
>>Yes, the fleets start at long range. This was part of the original tournament, and until we play a few games, and get some feedback, I'm hesitant to change things.>>

Yeah, don't change things now. But for the future, I think 4 maps of space is too much space. 2 maps of space seems totally reasonable for a game like this--when we did a DW squadron tournament a number of years back (10? We chose from 3 ships DW squadrons that the judge assembled; it was, like, 350 BPV more or less. I used Gorn BDL, 2xBD with Sabot and I kind of demolished everyone...)--we used 2 maps of space, and that seemed very much sufficient for a fight of this size. We started at opposite corners, so there was no reasonable way to engage on the first turn, but we were fighting on T2, and 2 maps is plenty of room for maneuver and running, but not so much space that the map is basically a floating map.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Wednesday, February 12, 2025 - 07:30 pm: Edit

I think maybe I should contact who I am playing and find a start time?