1.1 bakija (GRN) vs madman (KLI)

Turn 9 now done.

(I know Dana just posted a synopsis, but I'm going to continue to keep track as well :-)

At the start of the turn, the GRN cruisers are pretty much in the middle of the map, South of the center some hexes, facing B. The BDS is about a dozen hexes directly SW of them. The D6D is 18 hexes North of the GRN cruisers facing A; the C7 is 17 hexes NE facing A; one E4 is 13 hexes North, facing D; the other E4 is 24 hexes NE, facing B.

T9: GRN cruisers move 24/17 late; GRN BDS moves 20/21 for 21 moves. KLI D6D moves 15 a few impulses then 21 the rest of the turn, C7 moves 20/27 late, one E4 moves 26/25 all turn, the other moves something like 18/25?

Early on, the GRN launch ECPs for both cruisers. The E4s and C7 launch new ECM drones. the D6D lands a shuttle (probably from an E4 SP turns and turns ago). C7 and D6 kind of turn off, the far E4 turns in, the close E4 turns off. The GRN cruisers turn North, then NE again; the BDS loans the HD 6ECM to avoid the C7 firing long range guns at the 1 box shield now facing it (HD at 10 ECM). The BDS uses 3 sensor attempts to kill an ECM drone on the E4 closest to it (it is the only drone in range). At about R15, the GRN, who are attempting to close in, launch 2x sabot S torps towards the Klingons, as the C7 is kind of facing them.

The C7 turns off. The D6D turns off. The GRN turn A, and then back to B by the end of the turn. The D6D uses a sensor channel to attempt to identify the plasma torp targets, and succeeds on one of them (the C7). The GRN continue to attempt to close range. One of the E4s (that is moving speed 18 at the time) gets unfortunately close to the GRN cruisers, who fire 6xP1 through its #5 shield and a -1ECM shift at R4, roll well, do 13 internals through the 10 box shield. This leaves the E4 a total smoking wreck with no weapons, 4 power, a control, and the security station.

Meanwhile, the other E4 starts closing in on the BDS to the South of the rest of the action. The BDS turns to engage the E4, hoping to get a close range shot on the E4's weak rear shield with a bunch of P3s. The E4 captain sees this coming and avoids it by turning, at which point the BDS turns back towards the fray. The E4 had only a single disruptor as a gun to use in defense, so didn't fire anything as the ships passed in the night (the E4 has a drone rack, but it launched the ECM drone that got whacked).

Back to the North, the Klingons still mostly avoid the GRN. The 2 sabot S torps close on the C7, which can probably just completely avoid them all together, but instead turns in to get a better position, both of the torps are clearly targetted on the C7, they get to R1 after 16 moves, the C7 fires a flurry of P3s into the torps, they hit the next impulse, one is real, one is fake, the C7 takes 10 damage to it's #5.

Ships move a little more, the turn ends. The D6D fixes some shield boxes and gets a P2 back with CDR (I think that is all the D6D CDR? 2xP3, 1xP2, drone rack). The C7 fixes some shield boxes and gets 3 batteries back with CDR (that's now 4xCDR--disr, 3xbbty, but also 6 weapons and energy back with EDR).

At the end of the turn, the GRN cruisers are a little past the midline of the map, about 20 hexes from the North map edge, facing B, speed 17. The BDS is 19 hexes (i.e. inconveniently far) directly dir E from them. The D6D is 9 hexes pretty much directly North of the GRN cruisers. The C7 is 12 hexes dir F from the GRN cruisers. The still operational E4 is 7 hexes SE from the BDS. The mangled E4 is 7 hexes NE of the BDS.

The Klingons haven't fired any guns other than launching a few ECM drones and some P3s a plasma for 3 turns, and have just had all the room in the world to run and repair and reload drone racks and whatnot.

Turn took about an hour and a half.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Saturday, March 08, 2025 - 03:06 pm: Edit

There is alot of analysis based on a single battle here, over analysis IHMO. The current game in question seems to be the Gorn Vs Klingon.

This battle appears to be 2 players of different skill levels and I have watched several sessions. This battle could have been decided already however in watching there seems to be a beer and pretzels approach, neither side really trying to be decisive and the gorn player taking a very passive approach to drn defense.

This has allowed a klingon force that has never shown any real fleet integrity to conduct extensive repairs and to re-open the range.

My point is there does not seem to be the same analysis and questions of rules in other matches in this tournament, watching the selts and feds right now... very different game, proceeding along very well, both players are being decisive and attempting to eliminate the opposing force with all resources. I doubt EDR will even be used in this battle.

IMO the rules are fine, the map is ideal, and the after action reports are very much appreciated, great read. I like rules, that is why I like SFB, I would even prefer that we were using Energy Balance though it is optional.

I agree with Ted, this is A tournament, but not tournament SFB, it is "real" SFB and trying to balance it, especially based on one game and that games outcomes is flawed.

I suppose rules discussions are great when they are focused on clarifications and implications, uses. However here it seems to be primarily questioning the viability of the rules themselves. I do not see the point of that.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 08, 2025 - 04:23 pm: Edit

>>This battle appears to be 2 players of different skill levels and I have watched several sessions.>>

You stopped in to the game a few times for, like, 10 minutes when nothing much was happening. If you are going to make statements like this based on a couple transient viewings, I'll be sure to boot you from the room next time you show up.

I'm honestly completely baffled as to why you are taking it upon yourself to be so thoroughly objectionable here.

>>This battle could have been decided already however in watching there seems to be a beer and pretzels approach, neither side really trying to be decisive and the gorn player taking a very passive approach to drn defense.>>

It is very easy for you to say that from the sidelines. Hows about you just play your own game, post game reports for people to analyze, and stop complaining about people doing the things that the judge is asking them to do.

>>My point is there does not seem to be the same analysis and questions of rules in other matches in this tournament>>

If people post reports with some detail, there will be the same analysis and questions of rules in other matches in this tournament. Please. Go ahead and post detailed descriptions of the games you play. The floor is yours.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 07:08 am: Edit

Hi Frank, Dave, Ed,

I'm reading the conversation, seeing that Frank offered to concede over the warp issue. Seems like Dave did a great job, Ed agrees he was outplayed, but since the issue is still smoking a bit, this is what I propose.

We accept Frank's offer to concede the first round to Ed's Feds. Frank is re-entered to take Vandar's place facing MetalDog in round one, game three. We can extend the deadline just a bit for this game, given the circumstances (Justin getting covid, Vandar dropping out). I think that resolves the extra warp issue, while still giving everybody an opponent and chance to play, since Frank was on vacation anyway and had to give over command to Dave. I guess the only guy who loses is Dave, who apparently played a great game. But, I think its a rational way to proceed.

Comments? Hopefully you guys can confirm with an affirmative message, I'll update the tree once you guys confirm this is acceptable.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 08:24 am: Edit

Geof,
I'm ok with that.
However, Ed declined my offer to concede to him.

So if Ed reconsiders and wants to play in round 2, I can fly the Roms as Vandor built them vs Justin.

If all agree, Justin and I can start over [not sure what turn they are on?] or I can take over from Vandor in the current position.
We would need to tansfer all the Rom pieces to me.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 08:27 am: Edit

Note,
We will ask Paul to work his majic and do the transfer of the Rom pieces.

Cheers
Frank

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 10:33 am: Edit

Geof,

No worries. I am happy to help out as needed.

David

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 11:29 am: Edit

we can start over, we played 2 turns and had not engaged as of yet. I have no problem with starting again.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 12:05 pm: Edit

OK, good to hear. I think Frank and Justin should start over, Frank as the Romulan Fleet commander, Justin as Feds as originally matched up.

David, if you have time and inclination, do you mind to take over Ed's position as Feds in Round 2? You get to have a "Master's" style win, where you command the force that you just defeated, lol. If you decline, its OK, we'll figure something else out.

Thanks for the flexibility, all.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Frank I am available to play today, I will be online pst me and we can get set up and play a couple of turns if you are avail?

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Maybe agree on a closer starting range might speed it along if you are starting over.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Roms and Feds have engaged.
Albeit, we are asking for round 1 to be extended please.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Justin and I completed 2 turns tonight.
Nothing exciting to report.
Mid way on T2, at R12 ish, both sides launched some plasma, 4Gs from the 2 Hawks and 2 Fs from the Fed DDL.

Both sides promptly turned away and sped away from all torps.
It looks like no torp will impact until the end of their run if allowed.
The Fed Fs will run out of gas 2 hexes away from the Rom target[unknown at this time], an error in speed change on my part.

To continue Monday night at 9:30 pm EST.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 09, 2025 - 11:12 pm: Edit

I should mention it took 2.5 hours to play which included setting up the Rom forces, expendables and EA as quickly as I could.

Cheers
Frank

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 03:00 pm: Edit

I realize not the ideal place to post this, however...

Question: if 2 units are tractored to one another and they both move on a given impulse and both choose to slip in the same direction, do both ships slip, on 2 consecutive impulses ?? How is the movement of 2 ships tractored together and moving the same direction handled if they both slip the same direction?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 04:08 pm: Edit

G7.36, point 3.

Slipping is irrelevant to the situation. If both ships move on the same impulse, the larger ship moves this impulse, the smaller ship moves the next impulse. They both move the move they decided to do on the impulse in question, even if delayed.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Thank you Peter, I saw the same rule last night, Frank was doing some fancy tractor stuff and I am a bit rusty on the tractor rules. I was just wondering if I missed anything, possibly in the rules about slipping, or elsewhere.

Just seemed kinda wild that one could slip and slip and keep on slippin into the future...

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 06:24 pm: Edit

It's what you call slip sliding and awaaay now .............
[Insert smiling emoji]

Cheers
Frank

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Frank Lemay is a master of "Stupid Tractor Tricks" ®.

Odds are pretty high he's doing it right.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 09:30 pm: Edit

1.1 bakija (GRN) vs madman (KLI)

Done with T10.

At the start of the turn, the GRN cruisers are a little past the midline of the map, about 20 hexes from the North map edge, facing B, speed 17. The BDS is 19 hexes (i.e. inconveniently far) directly dir E from them. The D6D is 9 hexes pretty much directly North of the GRN cruisers. The C7 is 12 hexes dir F from the GRN cruisers. The still operational E4 is 7 hexes SE from the BDS. The mangled E4 is 7 hexes NE of the BDS.

T10: GRN cruisers move 24 a few impulses, 30 till 11, then 17. BDS moves 30 while it exists. The KLI C7 moves 20/27/20; the D6D moves 28/21/28 (for the last few impulses). The mangled E4 moves 9 all turn. The less mangled E4 moves 18 all turn.

The GRN turn dir A and speed up to 30, chasing the D6D which is about 9 hexes away. The C7 moves south towards the lone BDS. The D6D launches an ECM drone. The D6D then launches 4 drones at the GRN cruisers. The GRN tractor all 4 when they get to R1, but two of them are swordfish drones that fire for about 7 damage on the CCH #6 shield and self destruct. The D6D slows down to 21, allowing the GRN to get inside R8. The D6D has 5 ECM (drone and 2 self lent), the GRN nullify this with ECCM (mostly self generated, but the CCH gets 3 from the BDS) and they fire 10xP1 at the D6D, rolling well, doing 24 damage through a 12 box #4, for another dozen internals, which blow up the D6D shuttle bay, scoring another internal with a chain reaction. The GRN keep following the D6D.

On the south side of things, the C7 closes in on the lone BDS. They get to R1. The C7 tractors it, to prevent it from slipping to R1 off the C7 weak #1 the next impulse. The BDS fires 3xP1 into the down sheild of the R3 mangled E4. The C7 fires 7xP1 and a disruptor into the BDS. The E4 takes about 13 internals, leaving it with a single excess damage box and a security station. The BDS takes 24 in, getting real messed up. Next impulse, the C7 launches a couple drones at it. It tries to shoot one down, it fails, and they hit for 48 internals, promptly blowing up the BDS, which does 10 damage to the C7 #3 with the explosion.

The C7 turns towards the other ships, launches an SP, and a couple more drones at the GRN cruisers.

The GRN cruisers keep following the D6D. The C7 turns mostly towards them, so they launch an S and 2xF torps (all sabot) to dissuade pursuit. The C7 turns off. They turn and get another 4xP1s into the D6D at R8, scoring 10 more internals, leaving it pretty messed up. The C7 SP opens a ways off, some drones close in, the GRN kill the last tractored drone (one was killed by the BDS before it died) with 3xP3s, as it is armored. A couple more drones get to R3 by the end of the turn, one of which is IDed as another swordfish, which will shoot on impulse 1 at R2.

At the end of the turn, the GRN cruisers are 5 hexes from the N wall, mostly in the middle of the map, facing F. The D6D is 9 hexes to the SW, facing D. The C7 is about 30 hexes to the SE, facing D. The not quite crippled E4 is about 15 hexes S. There are 9 drones on the map.

The two GRN cruisers are still largely undamaged, but for a few damaged shields on the CCH and a 1 box #2 and 1 hull damage on the HD.

The C7 has some damaged rear sheilds, a 6 box #1, and 27 internals after a lot of repairing things, still down 5 power and 4 batteries; has used 5CDR? The D6D is probably crippled. It has 3 drone racks, no special sensors, and 23 power. No more CDR available. No shuttles or shuttle bay. One E4 is barely not crippled. The other has a single excess damage left.

Turn took a little over 2 hours.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, March 10, 2025 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Ted,
I know of someone who makes me look like a kindergarden beginner while he applies his University style tractor tricks !
I've played him many times and speak from experience.

Peter,
If the BDS was tractored by the C7, it could not have fired its ph 3s at the E4 as it is under fire restrictions as per G7.91.
It can only fire at the C7 or shuttles/fighters and or drones.

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 07:19 am: Edit

Duplicate Deleted (board acting weird).

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 07:59 am: Edit

>>If the BDS was tractored by the C7, it could not have fired its ph 3s at the E4 as it is under fire restrictions as per G7.91.>>

Huh. Yeah. That is a thing we both forgot existed. I suspect trying to rewind and fix that is not worth the hassle.

The BDS still could have fired a couple P1's into the E4 before it got tractored (leaving it in not significantly better shape than it is now), and then it still has a few more phasers to shoot down drones, which likely keeps it alive a little longer, and then distracts drones from the other ships.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 12:04 pm: Edit

Also the D6D can only accept loaning from one source, either the ECM drn or its own sensor channel, not both.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 12:54 pm: Edit

IIRC the "single source" ECM rule applies to fighters, not to ships. Might want to double check that (I could be wrong).