Ted is correct.
Only fighters can accept loaning from a single source.

Ships can receive EW from multiple sources up to their max limit of 6/6.
Natural EW is a bonus such as EM, nebula etc

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Ted is correct.
Only fighters can accept loaning from a single source.

Ships can receive EW from multiple sources up to their max limit of 6/6.
Natural EW is a bonus such as EM, nebula etc

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 02:52 pm: Edit

hmm, seems I double posted.
My apologies.

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Yeah, it's a maximum of 6ECM from loaned sources total, not one loaned source (and also 6ECCM from loaned sources) (D6.3144).

A ship can get 3ECM from an ECM drone and then 3ECM loaned from a scout for total 6ECM, but it can't get 3ECM from an ECM drone and then get 4ECM loaned from a scout for total 7ECM.

It could get up to total 12ECM by self generating 6ECM, getting 3ECM from an ECM drone, and then 3ECM from a scout, but that is generally the max possible for a ship without "natural" sources added in.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 04:56 pm: Edit

test

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Hardcore) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 04:58 pm: Edit

chrome

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 05:07 pm: Edit

thanks guys, appreciate the clarifications.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Peter,
A ship could get 3 ecm from a drone and 4 ecm from a scout, however, 1 point of ecm is not used.
If the ecm drone gets KIA, then the 4 ecm from the scout kicks in.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Several games that I have played with Ted where he used 2 ECM drones to protect a shiop so I had to blow them both up to eliminate any shifts.

Then I played Dave in our campaign where he used 3 ecm drones for protection on the same ship, that required blowing up 3 ecm drones !!

Great fun !!!!

Cheers
Frank

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Yes. Those pesky Hydran chew through them ECM drones quick.

Note: I believe the campaign is using drogues which can allow up to 8 when deployed sensor drogues (G34.34). Just so someone doesn't get surprised in the tournament.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 08:18 pm: Edit

>>A ship could get 3 ecm from a drone and 4 ecm from a scout, however, 1 point of ecm is not used.
If the ecm drone gets KIA, then the 4 ecm from the scout kicks in.>>

Well, yes, that is true. I was just simplifying for the purposes of illustration.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 11, 2025 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Peter,
Understood.

Justin and I are to contine Wednesday night at 9:30 pm EST.

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, March 14, 2025 - 08:41 am: Edit

Any updates on other games to facilitate analysis?

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 15, 2025 - 10:48 am: Edit

1.1 bakija (GRN) vs madman (KLI).

Turn 11 done. It took a bad turn for the Gorn, mostly due to bananas dice.

At the start of the turn, the GRN cruisers are 5 hexes from the N wall, mostly in the middle of the map, facing F. The D6D is 9 hexes to the SW, facing D. The C7 is about 30 hexes to the SE, facing D. The not quite crippled E4 is about 15 hexes S. There are 9 drones on the map.

T11: GRN CCH moves 8/4/14 late; HD moves 20/30/15/8. The D6D moves 22/21/11 late. The C7 moves some sort of 15/19/12 combo. The mobile E4 goes 19 most of the turn.

The CCH gets shot by a couple heavy Swordfish drones on impulse 2 for 7 more damage on the #5 (basically, all the damage I've taken at this point is from swordfish drones, which the Klingons have a seeming endless supply of; it's the giant number of reloads). CCH launches an MRS and turns to face E. HD is going commando towards the D6D, turning E, speeding up to 30, and chasing it. The C7 is way in the south, and it just turns around, shoots the sabot plasma S that is about to hit it and vaoprizes it with 30 points of damage. The CCH slows down to 4 and launches a weasel, cleaning 7 drones off the map. It's AFC comes back up, about impulse 20, it launches a sabot enveloped S torp South towards the D6D (eventually this is revealed) after it slows down to 11.

Meanwhile, the HD is trying to get off the D6D's down #4. The D6D turns in, launches 3 fast drones. The not quite crippled E4 launches a drone. The C7 that is, like, 20 hexes away launches a drone. The HD tractors a couple drones, kills another one with a couple phasers. One of the tractored drones is another swordfish which shoots it. The HD launches a sabot F torp. Eventiually, it gets R6 off the D6D down #4, fires a couple P1s through a 1 shift, does 3 internals to the D6D (2 more power). The HD slows down to 15 and turns off.

The Working E4 turns into the sabot F torp, which hits it in the face for 20, on a 21 box shield. The MRS launches a sabot D torp at the E4, which eventuially hits it on the #3 for 6 damage, which the CCH follows up with 7xP1, rolling well, demolishing the E4, which survives with an ADD rack, maybe a power or two, and some excess damage. The E4 starts coasting towards the GRN MRS.

Meanwhile, the HD is trying to evade a few incoming drones. One of them it shoots down. One from the C7 is catching up. Near the end of the turn, the HD slows down to 8. The drone gets to R2. The HD shoots it with a carronade for 4 damage, it survives. The next impulse, it gets to R1, the HD is out of phasers and tractors, but the heroic CCH is at R8 and has 2xP1 to shoot the drone with. All it needs to do is *not* roll a 5 and a 6 to probably kill the drone. It shoots and rolls a 5, 6, leaving the drone at 1 damage left (well, at that point, I was hoping it was armored like some of the other ones). It hits the HD for 24 damage, doing 5 internals through the #5 (plasma F, hull).

The mangled E4 fires ADD rounds at the MRS for a few impulses, but doesn't do much damage (2 total?). Impulse 32 the MRS fires a couple P3s at R3 into the E4's down sheild, rolls hot, does 6 more in, leaving the E4 completely without power.

Also impulse 32, the C7 gets to R14 off the CCH's 7 box #5. It fires 2 disruptors, 4xP1s, nullifies 5ECM (with 4ECCM from its own MRS that it launched a while back and a battery. The disruptors hit, the phasers roll hot, CCH takes 4 internals after some reinforcement, losing 2 phasers, a warp, and a tractor.

Turn ends here. C7 fixes an APR (6th CRD, now C7 has fixed 12 boxes, all weapons and power) and gets more shield boxes on it's #1 (up to 9 now?).

The CCH is 6 hexes from the N wall, about 30 hexes from the W wall, speed 14, facing E. HD is 7 hexes mostly directly E from the CCH, speed 8, facing A. The almost dead E4 is 2 hexes directly in front of the HD. The GRN MRS is 4 hexes directly F from the CCH.

The C7 is 14 hexes to the SE of the CCH, facing A, speed 12. The D6D is 17 hexes directly south of the CCH, facing D. There is a sabot enveloped S torp 3 hexes behind the D6D (12 impulses of endurance used). The C7 has an MRS a hex behind it, a shuttle that is probably yet another MRS on the map a few hexes behind it. The only drone on the map is the D6D's ECM drone.

As of press time, we have gone through 103 Klingon drones (well, the last drone that vanished was #103).

The GRN CCH has shields of 32-26-24-24-0-15, and 4 internals.

GRN HD has shields of 30-1-24-24-0-20, 7 internals.

The C7 has shields of 9-30-14-24-14-30, 23 internals (down 4 power and a disruptor, nothing else of import).

The D6D has shields of 21-13-12-0-12-5, 51 internals (still has 3 drone racks and a few phasers).

This turn took about 2:45 including EA.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 16, 2025 - 11:00 am: Edit

So this is only relevant for the possible future (and just in a general sense), but MRS shuttles are more expensive than we thought (I was reading up on them recently, and was all "Huh. Unexpected").

An A-MRS costs 11 points, which *includes* the shuttle trade in (I'm pretty sure we were getting 3 credit for turning in shuttles when we took them here), and drone armed MRS come with 10 spaces of drones (and then 10 free identical reloads) that cost speed upgrade points, so adding an MRS to a Fed/Klingon/Kzinti ship could cost upwards of 21 BPV (although you can voluntarily omit some of the 10 spaces of drones to save points; taking an A-MRS with 2xIF and paying for no other drones for the MRS would come with 2xIF reloads and cost a total of 13 BPV.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, March 16, 2025 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Correct I paid 19 points for my standard MRS w/ drn spds.

By Eddie E Crutchfield (Librarian101) on Sunday, March 16, 2025 - 04:53 pm: Edit

Annex 6A shows trading an advanced shuttle for an advanced MRS is a cost of 8 points+ the drone upgrade costs. Has that changed?

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 16, 2025 - 05:56 pm: Edit

A-Admin costs 3 points and an A-MRS costs 11.
A difference of 8 points to upgrade the A-Admin to an A-MRS.

Cheers
Frank

By Dana Madsen (Madman) on Sunday, March 16, 2025 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Yeah, I paid 17 pts for my Klingon MRS

8 pts to upgrade from A-Admin.
9 pts to upgrade 8 x I drones and 1 x IV drone to fast for 10 drone spaces.

If that isn't correct let me know and I'll drop a couple drones and not launch them at Peter.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 16, 2025 - 08:05 pm: Edit

>>A-Admin costs 3 points and an A-MRS costs 11.
A difference of 8 points to upgrade the A-Admin to an A-MRS.>>

The MRS rules specifically indicate that you *don't* get a rebate for the admin replaced:

(J8.52) "Replacing an administrative shuttle with an MRS increases the BPV of the ship by 8 points [this is the rule section covering basic MRS, which are listed as costing 8 BPV]. This includes the cost of the MRS, the cost of the ready rack and deck crew, and the "trade in" on the administrative shuttle."

So an A-MRS costs 11 BPV (not counting drone upgrades, but including the trade in). I paid 8 (as both me and the judge thought we got a 3 BPV rebate from the A-Admin).

Dana paid the correct amount, assuming the 3 BPV rebate. I paid the correct amount (8 BPV), assuming the 3 BPV rebate. But in reality, we don't get a 3 BPV rebate. Which isn't an issue, as we all paid the same amount. But for the future, we should probably pay 11 BPV for for an A-MRS (and then drone upgrades on top of that).

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 12:56 am: Edit

See G3 Annex #6 page 146.
To replace an admin[2] for a MRS[10] costs 8 points,[10-2].

It would be the same for an A-Admin[3] to an A-MRS[11].

This is bought with COs.

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 08:21 am: Edit

So an A-MRS *does* cost 8 (plus drone upgrades)?

That is a very confusingly articulated rule. But ok!

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 08:22 am: Edit

Peter,
Yep.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 10:39 am: Edit

Ok, cool. Thanks.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Question: Are active sensor channels able to be detected and do you have to announce active sensore channels?