Per (G24.0), announcement of special sensors is particular to certain functions. Specifically, Lending EW (G24.21) and Gathering Information (G24.27) have announcement requirements.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Thank you Jessica.

another one.. on the impulse of an HET does a cloaked ship add the cost of the HET to its effective speed for purposes of retain/ regain calculations.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 03:15 pm: Edit

last one, maybe..

Can you tractor a unit while it is de-cloaking, during fade in??

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 03:47 pm: Edit

>>on the impulse of an HET does a cloaked ship add the cost of the HET to its effective speed for purposes of retain/ regain calculations.>>

The Speed Adjustment Factor chart (G13.331) specifically indicates Maneuver Rate (C2.43). Maneuver Rate specifically includes cost of HET that impulse. So yes.

>>Can you tractor a unit while it is de-cloaking, during fade in??>>

(G13.15) indicates that you you can lock on to a ship that is fading in, as soon as it turns off the cloaking device and begins fading in. If you have a lock on, you can attempt to establish a tractor beam.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 04:01 pm: Edit

how does the weapon affect chart work with during the fade out period? does the dies roll modifier get progressively better as the ship fades in?

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 04:30 pm: Edit

thank you Peter, much appreciated.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 04:49 pm: Edit

>>how does the weapon affect chart work with during the fade out period? does the dies roll modifier get progressively better as the ship fades in?>>

You still roll on the (G13.37) chart against a ship that is fading in, but you add the number of penalty hexes and then subtract 5. So if you shoot the ship during the +2 penalty hex impulse of fade in, for example, you roll on the chart, add 2, then subtract 5 (so you'll only be penalized if you roll a 6 at that point).

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 05:46 pm: Edit

again, thank you Peter.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, March 17, 2025 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Justin,
Looks like we played the chart G13,37 incorrectly.
It seems you will get more internals as you did roll some 5s which would have no damage but we applied half damage.

Justin and I finished T4 today.
T4
Roms stay cloaked while re-arming their torps moving sp 10, no ew.
Feds come charging in, laid a mine field to trap the slow moving Roms but the Rom HET to get away.
This brings the 2 fleets very close.
BCH was at R1 and I decided to uncloak thinking a ship could not be tractored while fading out, boy was I wrong !!

BCH tracotred BH+ and promptly fired 4*16 ovlds hitting with all and scoring 56 damage after G13.37.
She also fired a wad of phasers at KE Romulus.

KE Romulus then got spanked as well taking about 25 internals, losing a few of warp, F torp and 3 phasers.

Roms finally uncloak but the Feds are moving very fast away ending R6 to the 3 remaining Rom ship.
******************
After seeing Peter's comment above noting Justin will get more internals, I think I will just concede at this point.

Well done Justin.
I do need more cloaking practice !

I will still fly my Lyrans when my opponent is known.

Thanks.

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 07:17 am: Edit

Thanks for the updates!

Any further details to be shared? What happened with launched plasmas? Did the sabot R torps hit anything? What resulted in the Romans being cloaked and at R1 from Feds?

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 07:42 am: Edit

Hey Justin, Frank,

Actually, there is a little more nuance than Peter mentioned. The specific rules are quoted below. Basically, at the instant of fade-in, the un-cloaking player decides to use the Fire Adjustment Chart (and adjust for the fade) OR to use the normal EW shift, for example, taking advantage of a WW. Both of these things cannot be used. It is often that the Roms will use WW during the fade to take advantage of the "tractor immunity" rule. But without a WW, any impulse of fade, the Rom is vulnerable to tractors.

Also, as Frank has learned the hard way, apparently, one of the worst things that can happen to you as a cloaked Rom is to be "flash-cubed", give the anti-cloak ship a lock-on (no more double range), then get tractored (no more +5 to range). Now, if there were photons fired at range one or zero, there is feedback, however, cloaked Roms have a real bad day in that circumstance.

Please agree on the damage, crippled, disengaged and destroyed status of your ships on both sides, so I can compute VP.

Thanks for getting the game done so fast!

(G13.302) RANGE PENALTY: When firing at a cloaked ship, five is added to the range when calculating the effective range. This is done after the effects of (G13.301) are accounted for. During the fade
period (G13.14) and (G13.15), this penalty is phased in (or out) gradually. This penalty is ignored if the firing unit has a tractor link to the cloaked ship (G7.993).

(G13.303) DAMAGE ADJUSTMENT: All weapons (direct or seeking) fired at a cloaked ship are adjusted (probably downward) by (G13.37). Cloaking is a type of EW effect, but uses a different system. EW penalties for firing at a cloaked ship (D6.35) and (D6.36) are ignored; the chart in (G13.37) effectively IS the EW shift. ... There is no EW die roll as per (D6.37). Type-VI dogfight drones
ARE affected. Exception: (G13.344).

(G13.36) FADE PERIOD: During the fade period (i.e., the effective range is no longer doubled but some adjustment is added to the range), the player controlling the fading (target) ship can use either of the following procedures at his choice. This choice is made (and announced) when fade begins. Whichever he selects must be used for all firing units during the entire fade period. (G13.361) Use the chart in (G13.37), but add the penalty hexes to the die roll and then subtract five from the die roll. Ignore any EW effects. (G13.362) Ignore (G13.37) and use the normal EW shifts.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 10:03 am: Edit

>>Actually, there is a little more nuance than Peter mentioned. The specific rules are quoted below. Basically, at the instant of fade-in, the un-cloaking player decides to use the Fire Adjustment Chart (and adjust for the fade) OR to use the normal EW shift, for example, taking advantage of a WW. Both of these things cannot be used.>>

Ah, yes, certainly also an option there. But if using the cloak firing chart ('cause you can't use a weasel for whatever reason), that's how it works.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Geof,
BH+ is KIA.
2 KE [1 with 25 internals] and BHB+ disengage.

Peter,
My lack of cloaking knowledge shone brilliantly !
In looking over the game, I now realized I should have uncloaked on T4 after the 12 or so sp 32 drones lost their tracking.

The feds were about R20 ish at that time so my 2 KEs would have had time to turn around to face them and launch their mighty R torps.
Sadly, I did not do that so no R torps were launched.

Hopefully I will do better with the Lyran fleet but the thing is, my ESG knowledge is also lacking ..................

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Learn while you burn....

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Fair enough! Yeah, cloaking device use is often tricksy.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Turns 1-2 we closed range, Fed on top, Roms bottom. Feds push the FFS out in front of the gunline at spd 30. Roms move as one giant ship, 2xKE, BHB, BH+, slow spd 12?? Feds move fast spds 24-30, end of T2 both fleets start to engage roughly center of the map, slightly south.

Feds launch scatter packs range ~25, 1 from FFS, 1 from BCF. DDL leads the formation, followed by NCL and then BCF, FFS slips north and behind the gunline. Roms turn A and launch 4x sabot G torps from the BH's. Feds are Dir C and immediately turn out the range is 12 to nearest unit, DDL. DDL launches 2x F sabot, and the feds have ~ 16 drns in flight. Roms turn F, sliping away, tractoring each other to slip succesive impluses away. Feds turn out Dir A/B and run from 4x sabot Gs.

T3 Feds lab and evade plasma, targeted on DDL and NLC, Roms turn D and speed up to avoid plasma/ drns, range opens to 30+ Roms now center map south ~ 10 hexes from south wall, Feds turn back around and pursue end center map. roms cloak out and all drns lose tracking, fed plasma never hits, Roms plasma is real and is run out by DDL, NCL phasers plasma and take 0 dmg.

T4 starts fleets ~ 20-30 hexes apart center map. Roms stay cloaked and slow turn back around spd 8-10 to Dir A, Feds move 27-31 and close the range while roms under cloak to bottom for map, center.

Feds approach BCF, NCL and DDL, followed by FFS. FFS turns out after getting a little too close and then spds to 30, runs too far north and is range 16+ to all units, essentially out of the fight and trying to turn around.

Roms move under cloak as one unit moving slowly Dir A as Feds approach dir C/D. ~range 8. Feds close at spd 27-31, range ~6 BCF and FFS transport 3x tbomb (FFS is facing F spd 30 its tbomb is really moot, just the 2 from the BCF are an issue for the roms and they cannot avoid w/ out HET) in front for Rom force. Roms will hit at least 1 tbomb with all ships unless HET, Roms HET Dir C, feds keep closing ~5. Roms de-cloak shortly after HET, Feds push to point blank range w/ BCF, NCL, DDL, FFS is out of fight turning around ~ 16.

~ imp 24 BCF reaches R 1 behind rom force and tractors BH+ (+2 fade in) at spd 31, NCL reaches R0 on rom force, DDL at range 3. BCF launches 2x sabot F, 2x IF drn, and follows that by 6 p1, BH+ is gutted left w/ 2 excess dmg. NCL alpha strikes KE Romulus (+2 fade-in) and scores 78, wreaking the KE, leaving it with 28 power and nothing else but the R. DDL fires at BHB (+1 fade-in) and misses with both photons, scores only shield dmg. BCF releases BH+ shortly after and fed force opens the range to ~ 5-6 behind Rom formation, Feds facing C, Roms E.

Roms turn D and get the BCF in the FA as it leaves, scoring a few interals, less than 10 on the BCF as it leaves with some phasers and 1 bolted F. Roms are rolling Rs and have no batts to launch them.

End of turn 4 Feds are moving away, BCF still has photons avail, DDL has plasma coming online T5. Feds plan to swing back around to destroy the remaining KE, capture the burning wreck of the BH+ , and also the almost crippled KE, the BHB might be able to disengage.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Ideally I am looking to capture the BH+, destroy the heavily damaged KE and possibly also cripple either of the other 2 ships with no damage, the other KE and the BHB. We are very close to the south map edge, not sure how disengagement works in this tourney.. but I will do my best early T5 to capture the BH+, destroy the crippled KE, and to cripple at least one more ship. I have plenty of fire power online T5.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Thank you again, Peter and Jessica for the rules help, we were going thru the cloak rules in real time and we did it mostly right with your help, cheers!

Also Tom G, thank you for your help with rules.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Thanks for the game description!

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, March 18, 2025 - 10:29 pm: Edit

Justin hit the nail on the head !

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 07:16 am: Edit

Thanks for detailed description!

Disengagement works by leaving the map.

---

Quote:

Force A may disengage by exiting the map from the 01 xx hex row of maps #1 and #3. Force B may disengage by exiting the map from the 42xx hex row of maps #2 and #4. Any ship which disengages in any other direction is considered destroyed. Any ship that departs the map for any reason is subject to disengagement or destruction based on this rule.

---

---

Quote:

Teams are expected to fight until all opposing ships are destroyed or disengage. In the case of any unresolved games, the judge will determine the winner through the use of (S2.20) in the SFB rulebook. Players are not allowed to voluntarily surrender a ship. If a team abandons a game, a judge will control their ships and try to disengage. If the time limit runs out, judges will adjudicate the fate of each ship for point value purposes. Judges reserve the right to review and revise scores in the event of obvious collusion by one team to give the other team a superior score.

---

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 08:56 am: Edit

Geof,
My campaign has cycled the turn and leaving me very little time to continue.
We are near the 1st round deadline and since the Feds have the situation well under control, I conceded.

If it helps, the 2 KE and BHB are 3 hexes away from the map edge.
They will simply leave leaving the BH wreck behind.
Consider that ship as captured and the rest of the Rom fleet departing off the map edge.

Hope this helps ?

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 10:24 am: Edit

Frank that is NOT the correct map edge for disengagement, you are close to the south edge, you disengage from the East map edge, that is VERY far away and you have to go thru my forces to do it.

I would be willing to accept the BH+ captured, it has 2 excess dmg, very little crew and I can put a ton of marines on that ship on T5. We can just roll the SD die roll if the judge is ok with that. Also, the KE Romulus is destroyed, and you disengage with the other 2 ships, if the judge is agreeable I would accept those terms to end the match. Seems more than fair as I believe I can also cripple or destroy at least 1 more unit prob the other KE before you are able to leave the map from the Eastern Edge.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 10:32 am: Edit

Justin,
I agree to that !!

Cheers
Frank

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Ok, sounds good. I will roll the self-destruct die-roll to see if the BattleHawk is captured or destroyed.

Feds:
* BCF - internal damage scored?
* NCL - no damage?
* DDL - no damage?
* FFS - no damage?

Roms:
* KE - disengaged
* KE - destroyed
* BHB - disengaged
* BH - Maybe destroyed, maybe captured.

Any other points, like shuttles destroyed?