Geof,

Looks correct, no other units where lost. Feds will attempt to prevent SD on BH+ if possible for capture.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Actually, the Rom ships can leave via the south map edge and by doing so, they will be considered as destroyed since they left in an unauthorized direction.

The final outcome is now 2 KE, BHB are all KIA with the potential of the BH being captured.
This will elevate the Fed level of victory !!

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Frank

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 09:19 pm: Edit

1.1 bakija (GRN) vs madman (KLI)

T12 down.

At start of T12, The CCH is 6 hexes from the N wall, about 30 hexes from the W wall, speed 14, facing E. HD is 7 hexes mostly directly E from the CCH, speed 8, facing A. The almost dead E4 is 2 hexes directly in front of the HD. The GRN MRS is 4 hexes directly F from the CCH.

The C7 is 14 hexes to the SE of the CCH, facing A, speed 12. The D6D is 17 hexes directly south of the CCH, facing D. There is a sabot enveloped S torp 3 hexes behind the D6D (12 impulses of endurance used). The C7 has an MRS a hex behind it, a shuttle that is probably yet another MRS on the map a few hexes behind it. The only drone on the map is the D6D's ECM drone.

T12: CCH moves 12/14/24. HD moves 17/18 late. C7 moves some sort of 12/19/14 plot. D6D moves 11/6/4/0. Both E4s are dead in the water.

Impulse 1, the C7 can fire some P1's at the CCH's down #5 at R14, so the CCH ups ECM to 10 total (3 from ECP, 3 effective from MRS, 4 from reserve on impulse 1) vs the C7's 6 ECCM (2 allocated, 4 from MRS), figuring the C7 only has 3 batteries. C7 hold fire at CCH, but does fire a couple phasers at the enveloped S torp closing on the crippled D6D. The D6D launches 3 fast drones. The CCH turns off in direction F to get an up shield facing the C7. The KLI MRS launches a drone. The SP on the map opens and launches 6 drones. The enveloper gets to R1 from the D6D, which fires some P2s at the torp and gets hit for 23 enveloping damage, has 12 power in general, takes 17 damage, which is 2 internals (2 more power) and then 3 damage on all the other shields.

Also impulse 1, the GRN MRS launched a plasma D at the mangled E4 near by, which is soon hit and is vaporized, but doesn't hurt anything with the explosion.

The GRN just move off in dir F mostly, as scads more drones close in at high speed. The GRN kill 3 SP drones with a t-bomb. The C7 eventually crippled the GRN MRS with a couple disruptors. The crippled MRS kills a SP drone. The CCH kills a couple more SP drones with phasers. Another 4 drones are clearly targeted on the HD, which is further away. Late in the turn, the CCH ends up turning dir B near the N wall. The C7 launches more drones.

At the end of the turn. the CCH is speed 24, facing B, 2 hexes from the N map edge. The HD is 15 hexes West of that, with 4 fast drones closing in. There are 4 more fast drones closing on the CCH (all drones are in the 4+ range at this point). The C7 is 8 hexes S of the CCH, with an MRS behind it by a hex (it was dragged via tractor for a while). The D6D is stopped, crippled, 30+ hexes South. The other dead in the water E4 is very far to the South (40 hexes?).

At the end of the turn, the CCH fixed a P3. No other repairs of note.

The GRN have a reasonable number of plasma torps to fire next turn (a couple S, a couple F?), but the two ships are 15 hexes apart. The GRN are going to need to deal with the 8 drones on the map, then 4 more from the C7, and then 1 more from the MRS, and then 3 more from the D6D which is just barely in range to fire 3 more drones at something, that will have to be dealt with. And then maybe yet another SP. Soooo. Many. Drones.

Turn took about 2 hours with EA, some connectivity issues, and some interface issues.

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Wednesday, March 19, 2025 - 10:48 pm: Edit

This has really been an epic game right here.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Thursday, March 20, 2025 - 03:57 pm: Edit

We do what we can!

(We have logged 24 hours of play time at this point. I mean, not all of that was moving things on the map, but 24 hours worth of sessions).

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Thursday, March 20, 2025 - 05:55 pm: Edit

I agree, pretty good read, interesting game for sure.

By Ted Fay (Catwhoeatsphoto) on Thursday, March 20, 2025 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Kudos to the Klingons for continuing the fight. Many would have given up by now.

By Dana Madsen (Madman) on Thursday, March 20, 2025 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Yes, this can still go either way. The D6D is really hurt, but not currently in danger, and still has 3 labs and the ability to EDR a few systems. At this point even fixing a drone rack or two and sitting at range lobbing 3-5 drones a turn helps the C7.

The C7 even having taking it's damage has fixed enough that I think it can defeat either of the Gorn ships separately, although how much damage it takes matters on whether it can then turn to the other.

The HDD is 17 hexes from my C7 facing the wrong direction with 4 drones behind it and 32 hexes from the D6D. It's S probably won't come into play this turn. All I really expect it to do is deal with the drones this turn and turn around. The HDD also has the disadvantage of having mostly down #2 and #5 so he has to be very careful around a disr ship in trying to turn and bring his FP S torp in arc that he doesn't give me a down shield shot. I guess it could HET back, use it's phasers & tractors on drones, launch it's torp and then get ready to em dec and weasel because it won't be able to evade any more drone launches or have phasers left to deal with them, also no t-bombs left.

The gorn CCH likely has 1 s-torp, 2 f-torps and an fast loaded F if he wants it (also no pseudo S left). His right side is currently in arc, so he has an F and the fast loaded F available there. He probably needs to stop and tac to bring the LS torps into arc, both of which need to be completed this turn. So I think he's looking at min 10 pts plasma cost for arming + upgrade costs for any sabot or enveloping the S then another 2 batt to fast load another F if he wants. His phasers caps are down a couple points , his batts are mostly empty because I saw 4 pts ECM adjustment mid last turn. Then it needs to deal with at least 4 drones and up to 5 to 8 more that I can launch. I believe his ECM plasma expires imp 1, so given I've got an MRS out in support I have an ECM advantage. Given the setup this turn likely the only way he can shoot his LS torps is to stop and tac or to HET. If he stops, probably means he'll need to weasel the drones and gives my D6D some time. So I doubt he has the power available to refill his batt, complete all his torps, HET at me and deal with drones and go faster than 10ish.

I'm finally starting a turn at range 8 on a back shield (#3). I could OL 3 UIM disr and I think I have 9 ph-1 in arc (perfect cross deck firing). If he's stopped he could probably put up enough reinforcement to not take internals, but he'll lose most of the shield. Maybe he shoots back with a handful of ph-1's on a untouched shield assuming he needs to hold some ph-1's to deal with future drones?

Then I need to deal with torps, at range 8+ if I shoot and run the f's don't really matter. I'd likely have power issues myself trying to run a sabot S out to range 16+. But I also still have my decoy drogue with a speed 12 weasel ability. My max speed for the first 8 imp is 19 (I started last turn at 9). So I've got options of starting at 19 (no plasma can get to me before imp 7 unless I turn in) then maybe I speed up and leave or maybe I drop speed to 12?

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Friday, March 21, 2025 - 12:15 pm: Edit

agreed I thought this fight was over early, turns 3-5.. Gorns seemed to be coasting to a win, its played out quite differently. Outstanding.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, March 21, 2025 - 04:40 pm: Edit

The Gorn were winning at the end of T6. I sacrificed my BD to mangle the C7 enough to have a significant advantage. But then, I also hadn't counted on EDR, as I forgot EDR even existed, having not used EDR since, like, 1986, and not taking into account the effect of EDR, a giant map, and being the Gorn who have zero ability to harm an opponent running across the map for 3 turns while trying to speed up.

At the end of T6, however, they were pushed against a map corner by wave after wave of fast drones, and ended up having to slow down to weasel. Allowing the Klingons to run across the map for 3 turns to reload and repair.

On T9, I made a dumb error, which was being tricksy and turning my BDS in a bad direction to try and attack a crippled E4's down shield. Which was basically impossible to pull off assuming my opponent was paying attention, but made the E4 turn off and run in another direction. But this left the BDS, like, 4 or 5 hexes in the wrong direction, and facing the wrong way at the end of the turn.

On T10, the BDS was moving 30 much of the turn to try and catch back up with the main force, but ended up getting too close to the C7 (which was speed 20 when I turned across it's bow, but then sped up to 27 at an inopportune moment). I probably should have just decelled and weaseled to avoid getting tractored when it was apparent the C7 was just going to catch and kill it, but that would have only delayed the inevitable at that point, and by continuting to move, it got to loan ECCM to ships that were shooting up the D6D in it's last valuable moment.

If I hadn't turned to try and get that stupid E4, the BDS probably would have been shot up some by the C7, but not instantly vaporized like it was.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 22, 2025 - 10:45 am: Edit

1.1 bakija (GRN) vs madman (KLI)

We finished T13, and it's over! The Gorn resign at the end of T13, and we agreed on an end result.

At the start of the turn. the CCH is speed 24, facing B, 2 hexes from the N map edge. The HD is 15 hexes West of that, with 4 fast drones closing in. There are 4 more fast drones closing on the CCH (all drones are in the 4+ range at this point). The C7 is 8 hexes S of the CCH, with an MRS behind it by a hex (it was dragged via tractor for a while). The D6D is stopped, crippled, 30+ hexes South. The other dead in the water E4 is very far to the South (40 hexes?).

T13: The CCH moves 4/12; the HD moves 4/14; the C7 moves 12/19 (late), the D6D moves 5 all turn.

Impulse 1, the CCH is in danger of being blasted by the C7 at R8, so it pre-emptively weasels for 8 total ECM. The HD does the same thing, but is 14 hexes away. The C7 fires an overloaded disruptor and P1 at the weasel, destroying it (the C7 overloads are very accurate this turn, even without UIM and a shift of 1 most of the time). The D6D launches 3 fast drones on impulse 1 or something. Drones start hitting weasels and weasel explosions. The CCH takes 6 collateral on the #4, but gets out of the hex before it takes more. The HD avoids collateral damage. I see two more heavy swordfish drones. Drones are cleaned up, AFC comes up. HD HETs back directly at the C7 and speeds up to 14. CCH speeds up to 12, launches a sabot F torp in the direction of the C7.

C7 launches an ECM drone again, and then 3 drones at the CCH. The 3 fast drones from the D6D start catching up. The KLI MRS launches a fast drone which eventually goes towards the HD and is shot down. The CCH HETs at the C7. The sabot F catches up to the C7, is shot up some, and then takes a hard left turn and cripples the KLI MRS.

The HD is closing on the C7. The C7 does a HET back in direction C. The CCH launches a sabot S torp at the C7. There are 6 fast drones getting real close to the CCH, which is down a tractor and a P1 in arc. The CCH is compelled to decel and weasel again. The sabot S torp almost hits the speed 12 C7, but wait! It has a decoy drogue! The decoy drogue is killed, the C7 takes a little collateral on an unimportant shield.

At this point, the CCH is stopped, facing E, the HD is moving 14, facing C. The C7 is moving 12, facing C, about 6 hexes from the CCH and 10 from the HD. The C7 fires a walley eyed overload, hits (no UIM, -1 shift), dropping it to 9. C7 turns B, CCH TACs to face D. C7 closes a little. CCH fires a P1 at the C7 ECM drone at R4, rolls a 5, it lives. C7 gets to R4 on the CCH #1/#6 spine nd C7 #5/#7 spine. CCH fires another P1 to kill the ECM drone and avoid a -2 shift. C7 fires yet another OL and 4xP1, -1 shift, hits with the OL, phasers do well, CCH takes, like, 17 internals (some phasers, an F tube). C7 slips out to 5 next impulse. CCH fires back with only a -1 shift with 3xP1 and a carronade, rolls ok, does exactly 14 damage to the C7 14 point #5. Next impulse, the HD fires 4xP1 into the down shield, no shift, rolls well, does 6 in (all the batteries, some hull, and an empty shuttle bay). The C7 turns off. The HD considered bolting the S torp it was holding for a 50% chance of 15 in at that point, but decided to save it to chase the C7 away.

Impulse 32, the GRN crippled MRS lands. The C7 still has 2 phasers to shoot backwards at R6 into the down CCH #6, but rolls 6, 6, with a 1 point shift.

At the end of the turn, the CCH fixes a tractor. The HD fixes an F tube. The D6D tries 3 EDR repairs, missing 2 and fixing a shuttle bay (allowing it to land yet another shuttle and reload it with the 10 quadrillion drones it still has, even though it is crippled and lost all the cargo bay drones).

At this point, I resign. We agree that assuming Dana didn't know I was going to flee on T14, I'd be able to get off the map (I'm not real far from the West map edge) without taking a ton more damage, especially as the HD can chase the C7 off with an armed sabot S.

My CCH has a down #5 and #6, like 20 internals, and is going to get shot for a few more on impulse 1 (ECM could help, but there are still, like, 6 P1's at R6 to shoot in my down shield on impulse 1). The HD has a down #2 and #5, and minimal internals, but I'm low on plasma next turn (a single sabot S), the CCH has no armed weasels left, and the Klingons still can launch 7 fast drones per turn.

end result:

GRN: Killed E4 (100%), crippled E4 (50%), crippled D6D (50%), internal damage on C7 (10%). I'm not sure if these scores include CO's or not, so I'll let the judge figure that out.

KLI: Killed BDS (100%), crippled BD (50%), forced disengagement of CCH (25%), HD (50%).

This session took about 2.5 hours. So overall, this game clocked 26.5 hours to play, over, probably, 11 sessions.

Dana designed an excellent force and played very well. I think my force was reasonable, but terribly matched against the force Dana had (just too many fast drones all the time, with limited drone defense), and a terrible choice for this format.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 22, 2025 - 11:08 am: Edit

These are my opinions on this format. They are just opinions. Please take them as my opinions, and feedback that I'm giving the judge, as that's what he wants.

1) I think the map is probably too big for plasma to not be at least somewhat disadvantaged, while fast drones still have the ability to corner you eventually. I was never in a situation, ever, where my opponent was cornered and plasma forced an action, but I was in plenty of situations where I was effectively cornered and fast drones forced me to do things. My plasma hit a lot of stuff, but that's 'cause Dana, early on, chose just to run into it all to force me against the map edge with a dozen fast drones every turn, which worked out fine for him in the long run, given the giant map gave him plenty of room to run away and reload and do repairs whenever the Gorn slowed down, which was inevitable, given the scads of fast drones, limited drone defense (i.e. no gatlings/ADDs/counter drones--I got phasers which are less effective against fast, mysterious, sometimes armored, often times swordfish that one would hope; less than 2 tractors per ship; a couple scout channels for a while which are unreliable; t-bombs, which are difficult to employ against an opponent who is putting effort into avoing potential t-bombs, and eventually I'm going to need to use weasels. At which point the giant map and EDR becomes an issue), and the need to rearm energy based weapons all the time. That the D6D was badly crippled, and just sitting on the map, like, 25 hexes away from the action, and it could *still* lob 3 fast drones every turn that were going to hit something by the end of the turn was *very* significant.

2) Fast drones are *incredibly* effective, even on a map this size. They move 96 hexes across the map before they die. Unrestricted SPs and drone drogues can put huge numbers of drones on the map, and even from 30 hexes away, as noted, they are still often a threat *this turn*. Playing a force with a lot of drones is likely always going to be an optimal choice in this sort of situation (giant map, y180). With multiple ships, drone control is unlikely to be an issue. T-bombs are helpful, but if the drone player is crafty, it is hard to get more than a few drones at a time with a t-bomb. We went through, what, like, 125+ drones this game, and the Klingons still had plenty.

3) The Gorn, unsurprisingly, were likely a terrible choice for this format. Sabot plasma is nice, but not so much that it makes up for all the speed 32 drones coming at them and the decoy drogues. The Gorn had to slow down eventually (rearming plasma and phasers every turn takes a toll), and on the giant map the opponent can just run off at moderate speeds and do significant repairs while the Gorn speed up. They can't hurt anyone significantly moving away from them outside of R10. Romulans have the ability to cloak out drone waves (and approach cloaked to avoid drone waves), and the ISC can PPD folks who are running off, giving them plenty of other options in situations like this. All this means is that taking the Gorn in a game like this is probably going to be a bad idea most of the time.

This was a fun, very long game. My opponent had a great plan in terms of force design and playing that force. If I were to play this again, I'd never in a million years play the Gorn. I'd just be the Kzinti with 16 drone racks.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Saturday, March 22, 2025 - 12:02 pm: Edit

For comparison's sake, over in Federation Commander the ability to deploy escort variant hulls is somewhat looser than in historical Alpha Octant Star Fleet Battles. As in, their deployment by Alpha empires in FC is not dependent on the presence, or otherwise, of a "true" carrier - which, at this time of typing, is still a concept in playtest.

In any case, while the Aegis rules in FC are not the same as in SFB, there is no equivalent of "full" Aegis over there; Squadron Scale Point Values are based on the SFB BPVs for "limited" Aegis hulls in most cases.

Indeed, even in SFB the concept of deploying escort units as squadron or fleet support units, with no carrier present, is more common in places like Omega and the LMC - as, indeed, is the concept of an escort without any form of Aegis fire control.

-----

In this case, I wonder if there might be grounds for allowing Alpha Octant players in this tournament setup to select an escort unit for a future squadron, even in the absence of "true" carriers?

For example: in the case of the Gorns, I might wonder if the presence of a heavy destroyer escort - with its four plasma-D racks and its Aegis-controlled phaser array - might have made somewhat more of a dent against those incoming Klingon drone waves, relative to how things played out in the battle as outlined above.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 22, 2025 - 01:09 pm: Edit

More bits:

Sabot Plasma: Sabot plasma is fun, and definitely better than regular plasma (that extra speed and, like, 4-5 hexes of range is significant), except that it is power intensive and none of the ships that it was grafted on to were designed to be spending that extra 3-8 (or more) extra power all the time to arm those things. And decoy drogues are really good, doing a good job of at least partially negating the sabot advantage.

Fast drones vastly improve the combat potential of drone ships, without compromising the functionality of the ships; Fast drones are expensive to bring (so smaller ships, but the constant threat of incoming drones taking up firepower makes up for this in spades), but free to fire (and constant). Sabot plasma is not particularly expensive to bring to the fight, but expensive to arm all the time on ships that were not specifically designed to carry that extra energy cost. Like, in plasma V plasma, it's a wash. But plasma V drones, it's likely a bad trade.

Given the choice, if I have a not insignificant chance of having to battle drone ships as a plasma ship? I'd much rather *not* have sabot plasma and fight speed 20 drones (i.e. y175, say) than have sabot plasma and face speed 32 drones. But again, that's me.

To be fair, I haven't played a significant fleet battle in, like, 20 years; as noted previously, I played an SFBOL DW tournament (also y180) with fast drones and sabot plasma 10 or so years back, which was fun, but also a lot faster to play (2x size map, EW but no scouts, I don't think there were wacky drones or EW drones/ECP), and the forces were designed by the judge (i.e. "here are 18 or whatever forces to pick from. Take the one you think is best/most fun/whatever") so they were all largely average and nothing extreme one way or the other. And I forgot EDR even existed up until the point at which I'd already taken actions the benefits of which were going to end up being completely nullified by EDR existing.

But still, if I did this again? Plasma does not seem attractive; maybe maximum PPD armed ISC would be good? But lots of fast drones are always going to be good.

EW: It was fine. As noted, I think there are large swathes of the game that need EW in play to be balanced (see: 5xFed DD+; bases; fighters/PFs), but it certainly slows the game down, both in a calculations sense (especially with scouts in the mix) and a literal sense--ships are slower and/or just doing less damage all the time.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, March 22, 2025 - 02:19 pm: Edit

bakija (GRN) vs madman (KLI)

Scores.

I don't know what my opponent spent on COs, but assuming they are mostly a wash, here are point scores (without COs):

Gorn:
-Killed E4 (100%): 68
-Crippled D6D (50%): 73.5
-Crippled E4 (50%): 34
-Internals on C7 (10%): 20

Total: 195.5

Klingon:
-Killed BDS (100%): 97
-Crippled BD (50%): 51
-Disengaged CCH (25%): 44.25
-Disengaged HD (25%): 30.25

Total: 222.5

Klingon Level of Victory: 113%. Marginal Victory.

If the Gorn had managed to score, like, 3 more points of damage on the other E4 and blew it up, they would have had 229.5 points, and it would have been a straight up draw. Wah wah.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Saturday, March 22, 2025 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Peter or any one who may be interested.
My Above and Beyond Campaign is looking for Captains to help fly battles.
T21 has 24 battles, the lopsided battles are settled out of court but a lot of them are very even in combat [one is 598 vs 598.2 !!].
Current fleet size is 600 CBpv.

Empires are Feds, Hydrans, Klingons, Kzintis.
Hydrans have 14 battles while the Klingons have 16, Kzintis have 7 and Feds have 6 and NPE's have 5.

Cheers
Frank

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 01:31 am: Edit

Here is a really good ESG question:

4 shuttles and 2 ftrs are hit by an ESG field at the same time, the damage is 34 from the esgs, how is the dmg applied? one side wants all 4 shuttles to take 6 dmg and the ftrs to take 5 (the ESG player), the other players wants to apply the damage as 6 to both ftrs and 2 of the shuttles, 5 dmg to the other 2 shuttles. Both result in 34 dmg but how is the dmg applied per the rules?? It matters here as the dmg applied the way the esg players wants it gives him an adv and the dmg applied the 2nd way gives the hydran player a better outcome.

How is this damage to 4 shuttles and 2 ftrs applied?

By John L Stiff (Tarkin22180) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 05:39 am: Edit

I recall that ESG damage is applied 1 point at a time equally. 34/6 = 5.67. Each shuttle and fighter take 5 damage (i.e. 30 total). That is a given. The remaining 4 damage is applied 1 point at a time.

I recall that it is the ESG player's choice to apply the remaining 4 damage 1 point at a time.

#1 - He can kill the 4 shuttles with 5 damage to each fighter.

#2 - He could kill 3 shuttles with 1 more damage to a fighter.

#3 - He could kill 2 shuttles with 1 more damage to each fighter.

The ESG player opted for #1.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 05:44 am: Edit

Peter and Dana,

Great battle, thanks for the detailed reports, and the details on how you found the format. I think we said that tomorrow 3/24 is the last day of Round 1, so very timely end!

I'm eager to hear a bit from Dana about the drone logistics. From what I see, these are the drones just in the racks for the Klingons:

I-F 140
IV-F 8
ECM 23
SWF 16
ARM 13

To this, the MRS (+~20), drone drogue (+6?) and D6D cargo stores (50 spaces * 4 cargo boxes = ~200) would be added. So yes, a lot of magazine depth. I guess the cargo boxes were destroyed when the D6D took damage, so maybe many of these drones were destroyed before being launched.

I guess there was some effort to rebalance the Gorns to the drone races with addition of the plasma carronade ... what did you consider this capability worth, in this fight? Seems like you preferred to use the sabot F-torps.

I'm agreeing that Dana's force was well designed for the rules in use, based on the range of the drones, compared to the map, and the capability to use EDR, which was well timed and executed as the Gorns were in the corner at low speed.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 05:50 am: Edit

Hey Justin,

The ESG rules which apply are quoted below. Basically, in your example, if each shuttle and fighter are considered the same size (SC6), and I'm not sure that there are "other size indicators" between a fighter and shuttle ... then the rule says the points are randomly allocated, not selected by either player.

---

Quote:

(G23.52) MULTIPLE TARGETS: If two or more objects enter the field simultaneously, damage is caused to (and by) the ESG field in the following priority:
1. Units which move completely through (G23.571) the field (unless both are generating an ESG, in which case priority two is resolved first). (Example: The field is in hex 0404, the generating ship in 0401, and a drone targeted on the ship in 0405. Both the ship and the drone move in this impulse, so the drone would move to 0404 and the field to 0405, effectively passing each other, although since either
the drone or the field will not survive the encounter, this is only a temporary convenience to keep track of the counter locations.) If there are several such units, these are damaged in the order given in steps 2-5 below.
2. Other ESG fields (G23.73).
3. Asteroids and other solid objects (G23.65). Each hex of a multi-hex planet is resolved separately.
4. Active explosive mines (G23.61).
5. Other units [including inactive and non-explosive mines (M5.28)] in order of size from the smallest to the largest, with each such unit receiving one point in turn. The field will score one point on each (beginning with the smallest in terms of size class; within size classes use movement cost or other size indicators, such as heavy shuttles and two-space drones; roll a die to resolve ties) and will repeat this procedure until field strength is reduced to zero or all objects are destroyed.
EXAMPLE: A drone, a shuttle, and a ship all strike an ESG with a strength of five at the same time. Two points would damage the drone, two the shuttle, and one the ship based on their size. Within the above priorities ESG damage is divided equally (until a given unit is destroyed or the ESG has no points remaining) among all units affected by that priority, and if the ESG has any points remaining they are applied to the next priority until no points, or no units, remain.

---

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 06:17 am: Edit

OK, here are the adjusted scores for Game 1.1:

Gorn:
-Killed E4 (100%): 68
-Crippled D6D (50%): 73.5
-Crippled E4 (50%): 34
-Internals on C7 (10%): 20
-Klingon COs: 64

Total: 259.50

Klingon:
-Killed BDS (100%): 97
-Crippled BD (50%): 51
-Disengaged CCH (25%): 44.25
-Disengaged HD (25%): 30.25
-Gorn COs: 52.75

Total: 275.25

Klingon Level of Victory: 106%. Marginal Victory.

Klingons win a marginal victory, and advance to Round 2 by holding the field.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 07:58 am: Edit

Geoff wrote:
>>I'm eager to hear a bit from Dana about the drone logistics. From what I see, these are the drones just in the racks for the Klingons:>>

So in going back and counting, it turns out that SFBOL numbers drones weird (there were drones labeled "SP-026" launched after drones labeled "C7-102" kinda things happening), so the total number of drones launched was not super clear, but when I went and manually counted every single drone in the discard pile, I got 105 drones used in 13 turns (104 were dead, 1 was an ECM drone still on the map with the D6D).

Trying to figure out total drone space is difficult. I mean, we have:

C7: 24 spaces of drones (4xB rack), triple reloads=96 spaces of drones.

E4: 6 spaces of drones (1xB rack), double reloads=18 spaces of drones.

E4: 6 spaces of drones (1xB rack), double reloads=18 spaces of drones.

D6D: 36 spaces of drones (6xB rack), double reloads (? not sure)=108 spaces of drones. Then 4 cargo spaces for 200 more drones?

The C7 also had an MRS (which comes with up to 20 extra spaces of drones) and there was a seeking weapons drogue (another few spaces of drones in the mix)

At least one E4 launched an SP (one got an SP blown up in the bay for a chain reaction explosion) and it might have launched 2; the C7 launched multiple SPs; the D6D deployed the seeking weapon drogue twice and probably 2xSP.

I'm not real sure about the 200 spaces of cargo drones on the D6D; the cargo bay got blown up probably T5 (it took 23 internals, and seems likely 4 cargo was killed there), but it had already armed the drogue, an SP, and probably reloaded some racks from the cargo drones by that point, so possibly upwards of 20 drones were pulled out of the cargo boxes by the time they blew up.

The thing that was most impressive was the sheer number of swordfish drones that hit me. The C7 had the capacity to start the game with one heavy swordfish drone (10% or 2.4 spaces of "limited" drones), but then had 3 in the reloads, and when racks got reloaded, there were just 3 more heavy swordfish drones in racks. The D6D could have multiple swordfish drones (20%, or 7.2 spaces of "limited" drones, which is 3 heavy and one light swordfish drones, and then double reloads and proportional drones in cargo?; as an aside, I have always been confused as to why "limited" drones are more limited than "restricted" drones, which are less limited...). For the first, like, 9 turns of the game, the majority of damage my ships took (well, other than the BD) came from swordfish drones that got to R1, were tractored or shot at, and it turned out to be irrelevant, as they shot me for 3 or 4 damage and vanished. Which really added up in the long run.

>>I guess there was some effort to rebalance the Gorns to the drone races with addition of the plasma carronade ... what did you consider this capability worth, in this fight? Seems like you preferred to use the sabot F-torps.>>

Carronades are totally solid. But they have a maximum range of 5 hexes. And I was rarely that close to anything till way late in the game, at which point I was down 2 ships and only had 4 F tubes (and one had been blown up and repaired already).

For the first half of the game, all of my phaser damage came in the 6-8 range (and occasionally the 9-15 range). Once the E4s got crippled (pretty early), they both got shot inside of R5, but at that point, phasers were all that were needed. The BD suicide run saw both carronades shoot and do internals to the C7 (through a 2 point shift). On the last turn, the CCH had a rolling delay F torp that got carronaded into the C7 at R5, but that was mostly spite and rage and irrelevant at that point (and it couldn't fire the rolling delay torp anyway due to no more reserve power). The HD used a carronade to try and kill a heavy drone, but when the CCH rolled 5, 6 at R8 to finish the job, it turned out to be also irrelevant.

I think carronades potentially can be huge in, like, a single ship fight (i.e. if I got carronades on the Gorn TC, I'd be unstoppable! :-); probably very useful against Romulans (as they are minimally effected by cloak). In multi ship engagements on a big map, where there are lots of fast drones in play, so getting close is often unadvisable, they likely won't come up that much.

>>I'm agreeing that Dana's force was well designed for the rules in use, based on the range of the drones, compared to the map, and the capability to use EDR, which was well timed and executed as the Gorns were in the corner at low speed.>>

Again, as noted, this situation was somewhat corner case--the Gorn have limited drone defense (relative to, say, Hydrans or Kzinti or Feds or, well, everyone but the ISC) and were going to be forced to weasel at *some* point in the game, and when that happens, the Klingons could freely turn off and run across the map at moderate speeds pouring lots of power into EDR for up to 3 turns as the Gorn sped back up. And 'cause the Gorn were basically incapable of hurting anyone outside of R10 (assuming they are moving away), there was no cost to do this. And the Klingons don't have to arm heavy weapons for those 3 turns (for more EDR power), and nothing bad happens.

Against basically anyone else (Romulans excepted, but they also are much less vulnerable to drones in general), the Klingons would have been harmed during those 3 turns (disruptors, photons, hellbores, PPDs on back shields, which would add up). And anyone other than the Klingons (or Kzinti) would be much less effective at doing EDR, as they would need to reload multi-turn arming weapons.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 08:23 am: Edit

Justin,
Re the ESG, shuttles are smaller than fighters.
Takes 6 to destroy a shuttle and 8 or more to destroy a fighter.

As per question, the shuttles will take the extra point each.

Cheers
Frank

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 09:35 am: Edit

Justin, Frank, I rolled for the Fed marines to prevent self-destruction, and got a "1", so the BH ends up being captured.

Here are all the results for Round 1:

Game	Race	Player A	Race	Player B	VP, Player A	VP, Player B	Ratio
1.1	KLI	Madman	GRN	Bakija	275.25	259.5	106%
1.2	FED	librarian101	LYR	Mightiest Mouse	ended by	agreement	n/a
1.3	FED	MetalDog	ROM	Princeton	446.25	70	638%
1.4	SEL	Andromedan	FED	orgyockbo	323	218	148%
2.1	KLI	Madman	FED	librarian101
2.2	FED	MetalDog	SEL	Andromedan
3.1		Winner 2.1		Winner 2.2

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, March 23, 2025 - 10:25 am: Edit

Frank are we just assuming shuttles are smaller? They are the same SC, no?