Hello aspiring Fleet Admirals,

After announcing the survey on this BBS, by email, and on Facebook in two groups, eleven people have responded. Maybe that's what our demand level is, so be it. Let me give you some high-level results:

1. What type of Tournament Format do you prefer?

Single Elimination was 45% (5 people)
Round Robin with points for final, 36% (4 people)

My opinion is that if we go with Single Elimination, we should go with the "Commander + XO" model, so we are not stuck when one person has RL take priority. Round Robin has a big advantage here, much more flexible. Thus, I will tip the scale to lean towards Round Robin.

2. Do you prefer expanding the Empires available?

Andromedans wins with 6 people, followed by none of the above with 5 people. So, Andros are the only additional empire that makes the cut.

3. Shall we expand the fleet size?

Overwhelmingly No, 10 people, so 500 BPV it will remain. I might give a little more room for CO, up to 575 BPV, which is 15%.

4. Do you prefer to use EW and scouts?

Overwhelmingly Yes, 10 people, so scouts are in.

5. Shall we allow conjectural, prototype or other non-standard units?

Pretty good margin No, 7 people, so we will not permit them.

6. Hydrans may use fighters (up to 24?), carriers & escorts, what about other races?

Disagree was 6 people, Agree was 5 people, so it is mixed. I'm planning to let Hydrans have almost unlimited fighters, Feds might get more fighters, like 12, other races will have a limit of 8. A light carrier with an escort will provide a pretty strong drone defense, if you are concerned.

7. Lyrans may use PFs (up to 12?) & PT tenders, what about other races?

Agree was 7, Disagree was 4, so players seem a bit more open to PFs. I'll permit Lyrans to take up to 6 PFs in a formal flotilla, other races will be permitted to take up to 4 casual PFs.

8. A standard map is 30x42 (1060 hexes). The CL15 template used previously specifies 4 maps (5040 hexes). Shall we shrink the map size?

8 Agree, 3 Disagree, so we will shrink the map. Average preferred size listed in the comments was 3122 hexes, so we're talking roughly 48 x 66 hexes.

9. The original CL15 format was open space. Are you in favor of adding terrain, such as a small moon, Class M planet, or Gas Giant?

Overwhelmingly Disagree with 9 people, vs 2 people. We might develop an Admiral's roll to maneuver, like 2D6, and the winner can pick open space, or a planetary body (Class D or Class M), if I get positive feedback. This does help to break-up large drone waves, but only if you are lucky enough to pick the battle location.

Anyway, I'll wait a few days for comments before I draft the rules changes.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Tuesday, October 14, 2025 - 10:35 am: Edit

Hello Admirals,

I’m accepting sign-ups for the tournament starting now, and will keep them open until Thursday October 16th, after which I’ll be validating fleets, preparing record keeping and generating player match-ups.

I’ve got two fleets submitted and validated, and at least two more said to be coming in ...

Please participate! If you just want to submit a fleet, but have not time to play, that’s OK too! I’ll review it just like the others and give feedback.

500BPV_Y180_TournamentRules_mk8.pdf:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fe2hu7bn9uT-42vcafuBXUHzwwsO0qCd/view?usp=sharing

Tournament_plan_R2_mk1.xlsx:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-i-xPm_-0o4yEzX8Nhkww4Z5S5azLql5/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=115217005550130697811&rtpof=true&sd=true

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Wednesday, October 15, 2025 - 06:39 pm: Edit

My Inernet is a bit spotty may be a few days until I can get to my E-mail. For whatever reason my hotspot of the phone with low data. G-mail just sits and spins its wheels. you have my Vudar. So i just need to aid COs... T-bombs and some Drogue's.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Friday, October 17, 2025 - 09:28 pm: Edit

sign me up and I have submitted my force!!

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Saturday, October 18, 2025 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Now who is this Klingon

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Saturday, October 18, 2025 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Please post your game times here, I would like to watch these games, thank you!

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, October 19, 2025 - 03:24 pm: Edit

I have to bow out. Excluding non optional rules like combat cargo xfers (used them in both of my games last time, oops!! sorry!) and nerfing COs again is not what I thought was happening here. This makes my force impossible to field as I lose about 40% of my drns and not being able to xfer drns from ship to ship is just.. no words.

My mistake, and I apologize for cheating last time by transfering drns using core rules I was unaware had been removed from the tourney.

Thank you for your time and effort Geof, I thought the point in the 2nd iteration was to have standard sfb rules, 20% COs etc..*shrug* fight at 510 bpv, not homebrew.

Nerfing the number of MRS we can take is bad enough, not allowing drn transfers is a serious nerf and I cant wrap my head around it.

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 07:53 am: Edit

Can anyone please explain how this force : D5C (or even more crazy D5L), x2 D5K, D5S, w/ 32 spd drns is 500 bpv?! Maybe I am bad at math, probably. Still, I dont see how even with paying for ALL refits with COs this force can be fielded for 500BPV. Anyone??

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 08:55 am: Edit

Ship B/EPV Refits DrnSpdBPV Total
D5L 132 0 12 144
D5K 110 4 12 126
D5K 110 4 12 126
D5S 120 2 12 134
Total 472 10 48 530

However, the trick here is that if you buy refits with COs, The base total is;

Ship B/EPV Refits DrnSpdBPV Total
D5C 126 0 8 134
D5K 110 0 8 118
D5K 110 0 8 118
D5S 120 0 8 128
Total 466 0 32 498

The four extra drones added in the B-Refit, do not count as base cost speed 32, but as refit cost.
Look at (S3.2)

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 01:27 pm: Edit

pretty sweet.. only have to pay 8 points for 12 fast drns, wow, what a scam!!

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 01:47 pm: Edit

No, the remaining 4 points are paid when you upgrade the A racks to B racks, and add four drones.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 04:02 pm: Edit

Using CO's to buy refits and drone speed upgrades is wrong IMHO even if S3.2 allows it.

Build the ship, include any refits plus drone speed costs and that is part of your 500 Bpv fleet totals !

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 04:17 pm: Edit

David,
I just noticed the D5C/D5L has 2 B racks already so the drone speed costs will have to be 6 for sp 20 or 12 for sp 32.

S3.211 does not allow to pay for drone speed upgrades using COs as I understand it.

S3.221 says drone speed upgrades are paid for seperately.

Unless I am mistaken, that Klingon fleet may be a bit illegal ?

Cheers
Frank

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 04:31 pm: Edit

I am not trying to step on anyones toes and I am nothing but impressed with the math to field a D5L, 2x D5K, D5S with ALL refits and somehow Still have enough COs for A-MRS with its drn spd upgrades too?!

Like I said I am bad at maths but that is some next level wizardry with the numbers to get THAT force fully refitted with an A-MRS and its drns speeds.

I was just watching the game and I have been struggling building my force b/c of maths.. trying to get in at or under 500, and I was like wow, that is the BEST 500 bpv force ever 4x d5 with a scout and a leader.. teacher me your wizardry?!

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Justin,
I just checked the 500 rules.
It seems you can indeed use CO's to buy refits for your fleet however S3.221 says no drone speed upgrades can be bought with COs.

Anyway .......................

Cheers
Frank

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Is it "legal" to swap two Type 1 drones for a Type IV drone, then pay the speed upgrade? If B-racks have 2x1, 2xIV, then its 4 points, not 6 per b-rack for speed 32 drones.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 06:59 pm: Edit

I am not a drone expert and really do not know much about costs. I do know that we are playing year y180. which makes speed 32 drones general. So must be paid as part of the force total not Cos.

You also must note the Klingon has drogues. As well as an MRS. Those drones must be upgraded to 32.

As a Vudar I do not have refits for my ships. ack So had to buy everything out right.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 07:05 pm: Edit

Frank Lemay (Princeton) Pardon, you are correct on the D5L, and I agree Refits and drone speeds should be part of the base force, note, if you read the R Sections, the years you can get away with this, are narrow, based on when a class is refitted.

By A David Merritt (Adm) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) No, check (FD10.5) drone speed increases are more on Type IV drones.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 07:10 pm: Edit

As for out battle Vudar vs Klingon. It has been fun so far. A real tense turn2.

I screwed up in IA turn 1 and Mighty machine allowed me to fix it.

The Klingon going less then speed 12 all both turns with tractor tricks and crazy speed changes drove me nuts. The klingon with ECM drones due to low speed was ECM 8.

I reached range 8 late turn 2 after plowing thru what felt like a Zillion drones. Took a couple of hits as I screwed up my drone identification. 14 overloaded ION cannons +2 shift sigh. and 2 hit. with phasers still did internals to the scout. My CW has a down shield and sone internals and a almost down shield.

I was right in my assumption that I could wade thru a bunch of drones. My mistake was not having enough ECCM. Was not expecting a Klingon to crawl at low speed at all.

Would be a shame to call things
due an illegal force.... So, Play on

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Steven,
We can have 1 type IVF per rack.

Gregory,
I think you are correct, drone speed upgrades cannot be bought with CO's that I know of.

David,
Sounds like we are on the same page ?

Cheers
Frank

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Regarding Commander's Options and Refits:

(S3.24) REFITS which are available in the year of the scenario but which are not specified for the ship may be purchased as Commander’s Options in a fixed, i.e., historical, scenario.

That last bit, which I put in italics, is a qualifier. When last I checked, a tournament is not a "fixed, i.e., historical" scenario; as such, refits should not be available within the scope of Commander's Options.

Nothing in the CL#15 500-BPV tournament rules changes this.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Sunday, October 26, 2025 - 08:48 pm: Edit

I disagree David M. FD 10.54 states these charts are for extra drones, and references you back to FD2.1 (See FD2.224).

In any case, if you use FD10.5 charts, BPV of a ship includes speed 8 drones. So the difference between speed-32 from speed 8 is only 1, for both single and double space drones.

Frank, I assume that is a scenario limit?

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Monday, October 27, 2025 - 12:03 am: Edit

I agree with Jessica and recently went through this with a friend. S3.24 allows CO purchase of refits under VERY SPECIFIC circumstances only. Refits in patrol scenarios are to be included in the force mix BPV and used to calculate CO points available, not to be purchased as part of commanders options. Otherwise, think of the unfair advantage a player would have playing a ship that had more refits available to it than someone whose ship did not have any.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Monday, October 27, 2025 - 09:41 am: Edit

Gregory,
Buying sp 32 drones for a MRS and or drogues is legal.

Using COs to buy sp 32 drones on a ship with drone racks is not legal as I understand it.
These drone speeds upgrades must be bought with the intitial fleet build, not using COs.

Steven,
This discussion refers to the 500 Tourney Geof is running so Jessica also has a point about refits etc !

Gregory,
I have played Mr. Hanson many times in my campaign and I call him the King of tractor tricks !

Cheers
Frank