Jessica,
I just noticed that there is a rule in this tourney that allows COs to be used to upgrade ships.
If this includes drone spreed upgrades, then yep, that Klingon fleet is legal as per the 500 Tourney rules.

Cheers
Frank

By Dennis Surdu (Aegis) on Monday, October 27, 2025 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Frank, I suspect that maybe the organizer allowed ship refits to be paid with CO without realizing the rules forbid it for very good reasons, but maybe not. The rules are also clear that drone speed upgrades cannot be paid with CO, but special drones ( under the drone construction rules can). I don't see why a tourney organizer would deliberately alter the rules and confuse folks potentially. Dunno, maybe I am all wet here, and tourney players were clear on the deviations.

By Peter Bakija (Bakija) on Tuesday, October 28, 2025 - 07:19 am: Edit

I'll point out that Geof, the organizer, was very transparent about the tournament rules, and asked for a a lot of input from the people interested. Everyone involved had a lot of time to examine and provide suggestions to the tournament rule format.

This does not mean that everyone was necessarily actually paying attention, but they did all have the opportunity to do so.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica_Orsini) on Tuesday, October 28, 2025 - 08:47 am: Edit

As the organizer is not an ephemeral entity, mayhaps we should ask him.

Geoffrey: when you wrote up the tournament rules, was the note allowing refits to be purchased with Commander's Options based upon a misinterpretation of (S3.24), as I quoted above?

By Jack Taylor (Jtaylor) on Tuesday, October 28, 2025 - 09:46 am: Edit

Geof is very brave running this tournament. Deserves a medal.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, October 28, 2025 - 09:47 am: Edit

Dennis,
As Peter said, we were all given the opportunity for rules clarification and no one questioned this rule or we all missed it, such is life.

We can simply call it a house rule which over rides many official rules.

All good.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 30, 2025 - 10:30 am: Edit

Ed and I are at the end of T3.

T1,
Gorns move 15, all ships at ew 3/0
Feds move 18/12, ew, BCF at 5/0, CS at 4/0, GSC at 0/0
Range at start is R66.
Both sides move towards each other.
Nothing exciting happened here.
End of turn, range is R40 ish.

T2,
Gorns move 15, ew, CDD at 6/0, 3*HDDs at 4/0
Feds move 12/23, ew BCF at 6/0, CS at 0/6, GSC at 0/0
This turn took a while to finish as I had RL at my end.
My apologies and thanks to Ed for being extremely patient with me as I dealt with RL.
Evetually, we did get the turn done !

All Feds laucnh a drogue, a few imps later, each drogue spit out 2 drones.
Gorns were keeping the range open as I feared I had messed up my EA so I was going to take a turn or 2 to get it straightened out and make it legal but as luck would have it, I discovered that I had not messed up ! :>)

Drones move in, Gorns move out, Feds turn to follow.

T3,
Gorns move 15, ew, all at 6/0 with each ship getting the free ECP torp out so basically ew at 9/0
Feds move 24/29/22/12, ew BCF 3/3, CS 2/3, GSC 0/0, Plus the CS and GSC have ecm drones working while the BCF has an ECP torp working as well.

Gorns transport a TB to take care of all 6 drones.

Gorns launch 2 sabot S torps at R18 ish and the Feds turned away then.

Gorns turn to follow.
The 2 S torps caught up to the BCF and hit at strength 10 each, both real.
After phaser damage, 7 hit but 3 met a brick so 4 stuck.
1st blood !

Hoping to continue T4 on Sunday.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, October 30, 2025 - 10:34 am: Edit

I should add the fleets are R18 apart, Gorns #1 to Feds #2
Gorns slightly north east of center, Feds slightly south east so no side controls the middle just yet.

Cheers
Frank

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Friday, October 31, 2025 - 08:00 am: Edit

The Vudar disengaged and Klingons hold the field.

Klingons did a slow approach (speed 12) with three drone drogues deployed. Vudar closed at medium speed 21ish. First turn saw the Klingons do long range disruptor fire doing 8 damage to the #1 of a DW.

Turn 2 saw the Vudar heading in with the smaller ships using erratic maneuvers while the klingon fleet move obliquely launch 3 scatter packs and a few drogue drones. Vudar Ion Generators took care of most of the drones. The CW dropped out of EM to do some drone control. Two drones did get though 2 drones did get through.

The Klingons fired first on imp 27 with disruptors followed by 6 P1s, knocking down the CW #1 and doing 7 internal.

The Vudar dropped the DW out of EM and the fleet did its overloaded alpha strike on imp 29 at range 7ish. The Vudar fired into a +2 shift and the dice were not friendly and manage to knock down the scouts #2 and did 13 internals.

The Vudar turned away and the Klingons ended the turn with 8 P1s into the #3 of the CW at R6, knocking it down to 3 boxes. The D5S turned away while the D5K pulled in their drogues.

Turn 3 saw the Vudar both fleets pouring on the coal. Vudar jumped to 26 while the klingons jumped to 23. Klingon disruptors cycled on imp 3. The Vudar popped their IPG on imp3 for 4 imps of ECM in hopes to get out of overload range. Klingons were able to keep pace until imp 7 when the protection dropped. The smaller ship were doing EM so the Klingons took the overloaded-UIM shot at the CC hitting the #4 with 9 of 12 doing 32 internals. Having just turn, the klingons spent the next 4 imps firing 2 P1's and getting good rolls doing 7,7,5,4 internals. This pretty much wrecked the CC, knocking out 3 of for IC, both IPG and 1/2 her power.

The klingon speed tanked as it was all potted for getting a shot in impulse 7.

The Vudar fleet raced away, dumping out 5 mines to take out a dozen drones. The fleets ended at R17, with the Vudar close to the northern edge of the map and the Klingons facing them with an inside track.

The Vudar decided to disengage as their heaviest ship was of limited combat effectiveness, the CW had some damage but without a #1 and #3 shield would have a tough time. The fleet was down to 3 IPG and the Klingons drone launch capacity how hardly been used.

The D5S was down 4 power (one of which was repaired at the end of T3) and a sensor.

Greg conceded the CC as lost in the heat of the moment. It had 16 of 30 warp but would have to suffer a R15 attack before escaping. Averages say he would suffer 8 more internals, but the rolls can be very swingy at the range. I put an offer to just do the rolls and see.

Results
Vudar
CC likely KIA at least crippled
CW 7 internals and disengaged
2xDW no damage and disengaged
1 Shuttle-A KIA

Klingon
D5S 13 internals.

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Friday, October 31, 2025 - 07:48 pm: Edit

very good Write up better the I could. First, I can say It was a pleasure to play against David. Second His plan was much better than mine. If my ION cannons had hit better. As well as firing at perhaps a D5 things may have been different. My biggest mistake was running ECM not ECCM on turn 2 when I went for the overloads.

I am new with Vudar and still need to find the best use of the IPGs.

By David Hanson (Glimaash) on Friday, October 31, 2025 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Update: via tournament escape rules, the CC will exit the west edge crippled.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, November 03, 2025 - 10:52 pm: Edit

I was listening to the most recent episode (number 829) of Star Fleet Universe On Call; in which Paul was talking about his Andromedan force, as well as about how things have been shaping up for this iteration of the tournament overall.

While it would be too late for this go-around, I had a few notes - such as they are - I wanted to leave for the third tournament to consider:

-----

By and large, most historical battles involving the Andromedans - and, for that matter, most of the Andros in the Captain's Log Battle Group 550 submission rounds - permit the invaders to take up to two ships equipped with displacement devices... but at the same time, oblige the entire force to be able to move along the Rapid Transit Network.

As in, there must be enough hangar space aboard any RTN-equipped Motherships taken in the task force to carry those satellite ships (and/or MWPs) which do not have DisDevs to be carried along the RTN. And further, those Mothership variants which do not have DisDevs of their own, such as the Concretor and Immobilator monitors, would be ineligible for such battle forces.

In historical terms, this is because Andromedan ships have slower operational speeds than Alpha or Omega warships when off the RTN. (Magellanic warships are no faster than Andro ships off-RTN, so battles which did not follow the "standard" Andro doctrine were somewhat more likely to be fought over in the LMC.)

In this instance, I would suggest going with the same setup in the next iteration of the tournament. As in, to permit as many as two Andro ships to have DisDevs installed; but to bar Andro monitors from participating, as well as to require any satellite ships which do not have their own DisDevs installed to have enough hangar space allocated for them beforehand.

-----

On another Andromedan note:

While the Andros historically do not have an equivalent to a fast patrol ship (though there is the conjectural Adder PF in Module C3A), the MWP is considered to be more or less equivalent to an Interceptor - albeit one without historical access to waro booster packs. (Although, C3A also provides SSDs for conjectural WBP-equipped MWPs.)

Nonetheless, if those PF-using Alpha empires currently permitted in the tournament are obliged to avoid certain "mission variant" PFs, it would stand to reason that any equivalent "support" MWP variations ought to be taken off the table in the next iteration of this tournament.

-----

Also, more generally, I would very much suggest that the next iteration of the tournament remove the ability for players to use Commander's Options to install refits, rather than being obliged to pay for them as part of the cost of their actual ships.

While it is certainly true that, historically speaking, many refits took a number of years to be fully rolled out by a given star navy - as was the case for the aft-launching plasma-F refits that were in the midst of being implemented across the ISC fleet as of Y180 - this is still a thing that should be accounted for in the non-CO portion of the force, again in my view.

Not least since doing this would pre-empt those Alpha factions which have extensive historical refits to "game the system" in ways that their rivals which do not have equivalent refits cannot match.

-----

All that said, I wish the participants of this iteration of the tournament the best of luck - and I continue to hope that, at some point in the future, there might be room for the Module C6 "lost empires" to join the fray in a future iteration of this event!

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, November 05, 2025 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Ed and I were to play tonight but he just pinged me he has a power outage until midnight EST or so.

We are currently on T4.20.

Fleets start R18 apart, Gorn #6 to Fed #3
Gorns move 27/???? with CDD Scygog ew at 0/2 [an error on my part, I wanted 2/0 !]
The 3 HDDs have no ew.
All Gorn ships have ECP torps working for 3/0.

Feds move 12/24/????
BCF has 2/3 ew, CS has 3/3 and GSC has none.
All fed ships have ecm drones working.

The chase is on !
All 3 Fed ships start popping out drogues on 4.1.
T4.5 the drogues start launching drones and then every other imp or so to prevent the Gorns from using a TB to blow them all up.
Drogues get landed on 4.7 after launching only 1 drone each.
Then the Feds start launching drones from their racks, 9 drones so far with 1 rack yet to launch a drone.

Since TBing them was not going to happen, the Gorns start tractoring the drones when they get to R1, so far 6 drones are tractored by 3 Gorn ships.
3 drones are in flight with the closest one being R5 to the Gorn fleet then R8 then R11.

Fleets are R16 to each other, Gorn #6 to Fed #3 still, all ships moving in E direction with Gorns having the middle of the map and Feds south west.

Play to continue when Ed has the lights back on.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, November 06, 2025 - 09:24 am: Edit

Ed has power again so we are playing tonight at 6 pm EST and again on Sunday, time TBD.

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, November 06, 2025 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Ed and I wrapped up T4 tonight.
HDD Szurra drops #1 and transport a TB on 4.21.
A fews imps later, the 6 tractored drones and 1 incoming all get blown up.
2 drones had to be phasered down.

Gorns turn south once HDD Szurra's #1 was raised.

Feds turn to F near the end of the turn as Gorns continue pursuing.

Fleets are now R11 apart.
Gorn #1 to Fed #2

T5 to continue Sunday at 6 pm EST.

Cheers
Frank

By Justin Royter (Metaldog) on Saturday, November 08, 2025 - 11:57 am: Edit

Paul are you available to start our battle this weekend? I will also email you. I am avail this weekend and will email geof.

By Paul Franz (Andromedan) on Saturday, November 08, 2025 - 12:56 pm: Edit

Justin,
I am available tomorrow starting at 11:00am EST going until around 5:00pm EST.

By Steven Hecker (Sjhecker) on Saturday, November 08, 2025 - 10:55 pm: Edit

Wondering if there is a link somewhere of who is flying what?

By Gregory S Flusche (Vandar) on Sunday, November 09, 2025 - 04:47 pm: Edit

It is in private E-mails. As a group thing for the players. You can ask if He will post it here.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Monday, November 10, 2025 - 06:57 pm: Edit

Hello folks,

I've only been able to access the BBS on my mobile device lately, so I apologize for my delayed responses.

This message is to Jessica and others who have made some comments about the tournament rule which allows upgrades to be purchased with commander's options. As I recall, this was originally taken from the CL15 rules, and I kept this in order to make it easier for everyone to "squeeze in" their forces to the 500 BPV limit. I see no problem with this rule, it is not a "mis-interpretation" it is intentional.

If you are not a player, and did not bother to comment during the months of time I kept open for comments, then as the organizer and judge I reserve the right to ignore such comments.

I hope after this next turnament that people decide to read the rules and provide constructive comments.

Thank you very much.

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Monday, November 10, 2025 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Oh, and yes, I will post the tree here, although the Fed and Andro players need to submit CO while still in the dark about the opposing ships, as all other players have already done. I'm waiting for that to post the matches and fleet details.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Tuesday, November 11, 2025 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Ed and I wrapped up T5 today.

Gorns move 25/29 except 1 HDD moving 25 all turn.
CDD ew is 0/2, 2 HDDs at 0/1 and 1 HDD at 0/0

Feds
BCF and CS move 24/28/24 both ew at 0/3
GSC moves 24/26/21 no ew.

Gorns continue to chase but ended up at R8 tot the Fed BCF and CS.
With some ew help [0/3] from the GSC, the Gorns had no choice but to prepare fo rincoming fire.
Feds unload 4 ovlds of 16[3 hit], 4 ovlds of 14[1 hit] & 12 ph 1s scoring 28 damage.
Grand total was 90 on HDD Golitho #2, she is now a wreck with 2 warp, S tube, no phasers, SENSOR at 4[lock on roll requried for T6], 1 trans and 1 trac remaining.

Feds then turn to flee towards the west which is where they came in from.

Gorns slowly close taking out 7 drones along the way using 1 TB to help out and phasering down the other 4, 2 plasma Fs hitting the same HDD but on different shields.
Gorns did not bother to fire at them hoping they were fakes but no such luck.

Finally when the Fed speed changes occurred, the Gorn fleet closed on the GSC very quickly.
BCF and CS turned away from the GSC leaving her on her own.

Fleet are now in the deep south west corner and I thought they were leaving to score a victory because of the damage to the HDD.
So I fired what I had at R2 on the GSC #4 making sure to take out the ecm drone and MRS ew support prior to the fire.

Bolt 2 S and 4 Fs plus 13 ph 1s all at R2 and 1 ph 1 at R3
2 S bolts miss, 4 F bolts hit for 40 plus ph 1s score 68 points.

She took a blast of 108 on the #4 centerlined netting 84 internals, that GSC is a big beast indeed !
No brick as she used 6 bttys early for ew support.
GSC has 11 power left, 2 SENSORs destroyed, 2 ph 3s destroyed so she will be able to fire back somewhat on T6.

End of turn sees 2 sabot Fs at R3 that were not bolted, only possible target is the GSC with a top speed of 11 for T6 and no shuttles left on board
The GSC is in column 0227, 2 hexes away from escape !

Play to continue Thursday some time.

Cheers
Frank

By Geoffrey Clark (Spartan) on Wednesday, November 12, 2025 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Thanks for the great battle report, Frank!

One further note on the purchase of refits via CO. The only way that a player may pay for drone speed upgrades in this way is when a refit changes the number of drone spaces, for example, replacing A racks with B racks.

I know Frank dislikes this, maybe other players do too. We'll revisit this option after this tournament, the rules are fixed until then.

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Wednesday, November 12, 2025 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Geof,
I read the rules but obviously I missed that rule thingy which is all on me, not you !

I have no issues.
All good here !! :>)

Cheers
Frank

By Frank Lemay (Princeton) on Thursday, November 13, 2025 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Ed and I are continueing on Friday at 6 pm EST and again on Sunday at 3 pm EST.

Cheers
Frank