Archive through September 08, 2026
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: General Tactics Discussion:
Orion Tactics:
Archive through September 08, 2026
Quantum Wave Torpedoes can be armed and fired every turn. The rear/defensive Plasma-F torpedoes on the ISC ships can only be fired once every three turns.
Adding the combination of the splash damage elements and the fact that QWTs are at full strength until a particular damage threshhold is reached, and they show why they're pretty potent weapons.
Would they make for a powerful rear defensive weapon for the ISC ships? Oh yeah! Definitely!
Would they be TOO powerful?
THAT's my biggest concern with the idea.
(Personally, I think that if the Veltressai had improved the speed of their Plasma-V torpedoes from 20 to 32 withOUT increasing the warhead strength for a particular distance, they'd have proven adequate; perhaps even BETTER, from a storytelling perspective, than the Plasma-F torpedoes the ISC historically used. However, the Plasma-V wasn't a part of SFB when the ISC were first created (obviously), so that never was an option. 
)
BUT getting back to scary options for Orion option mounts, IMO, as frightening as the quick firing QWTs are, imagine an Orion with Particle Cannons (E17.0) and Sheild Crackers (E16.0)! Fast firing with little (or even NO) damage after dropping the shields of a freighter!
(Hey, didn't a Seltorian Sage join up with an Orion crew after a battle against the Tholians in a story in an issue of Captain's Log?)
(insert evil grin...)
We've played a few games with QWTs and they definitely seem on the high end of the power spectrum. Arming every turn with high damage output makes them a painful prospect against a lot of races. The ones with tons of crunch power can charge through, but the rest can be in trouble.
Then again, our three games were two in the early years and one Death Race 3000. The death race ship was found online and was definitely too strong compared to the sanctioned ones. Those situations make running from QWTs very difficult.
I'm interested to hear others' experiences outside of fleet battles.
If you want a pirate ship which may use shield crackers and/or particle cannons, might I refer you to the High Pirate Bands of the Tholian Home Galaxy. There are rules and SSDs (and Ship Cards) for the OGR and OGD in Captain's Log #40, as well as a Pirates of M81 Galaxy article in Captain's Log #41 which covers these pirate bands in more detail.
Speaking of weapons which are primarily oriented towards dropping shields, the Zosmans are able to make use of Chlorophon energy howitzers, which score equal damage against three adjacent shield facings at once.
To go back to QWTs, I tend to think that in the Alpha Octant, Orion and Paravian ships might have more of a relative advantage in the Middle Years, when going against Gorn and ISC ships armed with nothing stronger than a plasma-G. How well they can keep up once the plasma-S, the PPD, and tricks like enveloping, shotgun, and sabot plasma are made available is another matter - but perhaps less of an issue for QWT-armed Orions, as there are few of their preferred targets (freighters and other civilian transports) which scale up in terms of firepower the way that the warships protecting them might do.
QWTs on Pirates sounds like a good plan. Fast firing and do not miss. Can overload them and hold them. You know how much damage they will do at what range. A pair of overloads may force a small escort to turn off.
A FS or FL will not out run a QWT. Yes as a Pirate I would take QWTs
You will not get away with this very often, but if you can pull it off, it can be amusing to see the expression on your opponents face.
I was running the OPC Heavnsent in the "The First Round" scenario that was the cover scenario in Captain's Log #3.
The Captain of the Exeter and I "exchanged scatter-packs." Six drones each. As he knew I would have to turn away, he was quite willing to use his phasers to shoot down my drones.
He was shocked when I tractored all six of his drones and continued my battle run to Range Zero of his ship.
Often opponents fail to really think about how many tractors a given ship actually has, and generally that more than two is a waste.
Query, for a general response from the Orion players.
You are the captain of an Orion Light Raider with a disruptor in Option Mount A and drone racks in Option Mounts B and C. You have sighted a large freighter (no skids or ducktail) loafing along at speed 12. How would you go about acquiring the best of its cargo (your cargo holds only take 75 cargo points (3 Orion cargo boxes) and the large freighter holds 2,500 cargo spaces (25 normal cargo boxes). There is the possibility that the police (or worse, the fleet) will interrupt your operation so, how do you go about it? How do you approach it? Do you demand it "stand and deliver" or simply start shooting?
That would depend if I were gaming or if I were writing fiction.
The former? Close to four hexes, fire disruptor on standard load, follow up with Ph-1s. That should be enough to down his facing shield. Tractor him. Launch drones to tie up his phasers. Lower own shield. Conduct Hit-and-Run raids against his phasers and, if he's not launched, his shuttle.
The latter?
"Hello, there! I know you can hear me. We both just want to provide for our families. We're just interested in enough things with satisfactory market value to provide for ours; things your insurance will cover. You don't want to die for nothing, and we don't want to kill you for no good reason. We know you have (insert items of choice; include weight/quantity). Give us 40% of it, file your insurance claim for that amount, and we'll be happy to let you be on your way. Force us to hurt you and take it, we'll take 100% of it, and your widow and orphans will cry over your stupidity."
From a scenario and/or Prime Directive perspective, much would depend on the broader circumstances involved.
Is this encounter taking place in peacetime, or in a time of war?
Is the Orion ship an independent operator, or is it directly affiliated with a given Cartel?
Further, is the ship operating under a mercenary and/or privateer contract?
And, in this instance, what manner of cargo would be the most valuable in the eyes of the Otion crew in question?
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Given that the ship has a mix of disruptor and drone armament, that would lean somewhat - though by no means exclusively - towards a Cartel which includes Klingon and/or Kzinti space as its "primary" territory.
In the case of a mercenary and/or privateer ship, the captain might be obliged to destroy the target freighter, regardless of whether the cargo of choice is acquired or not. With no letter of marque in play, however, there would perhaps be more leeway available, in terms of what state the freighter can be left in once the encounter is over.
I suppose one interesting option would be if the Orion ship is controlled by, or perhaps holds an "operating licence" from, the Cluster Cartel. In which case, perhaps the most valuable thing to take off the ship might be the crew itself. As in, once the captured crew is brought aboard the LR, the freighter could have a "robotic" course set for it to enter the WYN Cluster directly...
For a mercenary destroying the ship, are we talking actual explosion, or could it be a mission kill of a Strait of Hormuz type delay by taking it down to impulse or Non-Tactical Warp, possibly with a boarding party taking out the subspace radio so authorities have to go search for it?
OK, I'm not much of an Orion player (favorite empire - Tholians, second favorite - Romulans). But if I were that Orion captain, I'd be wondering about a couple of things.
1. Why is my intended target "... loafing along at speed 12"?
A large freighter can hit speed 16 (17 with impulse). Of course ships don't always run around at full speed; it generally puts more wear-and-tear on the engines than traveling at "cruise speed", and is more expensive in terms of fuel. That freighter might be trying to meet a fixed schedule and speed 12 gets it to its destination on time, and more cheaply. There could be completely innocuous reasons why the freighter is moving specifically at speed 12. But as the pirate, I would at least wonder about it.
2. What are the chances this is really a Q-ship?
The number of Q-ships in service at any given time is quite small compared to the total number of freighters. But under some circumstances, the chances that this particular freighter might be a Q-ship could be higher than one might otherwise expect. I, as pirate captain, have managed to infiltrate my ship into a sector previously deemed "safe", a sector in which there have been neither pirate attacks nor enemy raids in months? A lone freighter is probably just what it seems. But if instead I, as pirate captain, have located a target in a "high threat" area in which convoy operations, or at the very least armed freighters, are more the norm; there's an elevated chance that a lone, supposedly "standard" freighter is more than it seems. Pirates who don't aspire to become part of a rapidly expanding cloud of superheated plasma... might want to pay attention.
Honestly, I would demand the freighter heave to and prepare to be boarded... or else.
If it heaves to, I board, access its computer (using the Captain's codes which he will give me after gentle coaxing), find the valuable cargo, grab it and get. Faster than the alternative, as the real time here is not stopping the freighter - it's finding what is valuable on board (unless you already know).
If it tries to run I charge in hard and smash its engines at point blank range with an overloaded disrupter and phasers. No need to bother with expensive drones. At range 0 you can't miss with the disrupter, you can easily take the feedback and the freighter's ph-3 on reinforcement, and do roughly 30 damage - plenty enough to shatter the shield, knock out the engines and cripple the ship. Sure, you'll blow through some cargo, but you can't carry it all anyway and likely the valuable stuff will survive by the law of probability.
If I suspect a Q ship I'd leave. Pirates want victims, not a fight.
If I don't suspect a Q ship and I charge in... well... them's the breaks. A pirate's life isn't easy!
If you're paranoid about Q ships, just double the engines and put the extra into reinforcement... and pray.
I'm with Ted, except that I won't double the engines on a raid even if I'm paranoid about Q-ships unless I have a strong reason to expect a very high value cargo.
Warships tend to be expensive, damage costs to repair. In a pure BPV battle, any internals costs 10% of the cost of losing the ship.
10 internals means I've lost a crew unit, which is 10 guys, I tend to assume that every internal is one serious casualty (fatality or badly wounded), I can't afford that on random frieghters.
A bit of random cargo is not worth doubling engines, which means unless I have good reason to suspect that this frieghter is carrying something extremely valuable (like weapon and drive spare parts), I don't want to take a single internal.
On Ted, as I read his description, which I agree with, my impression on engine doubling was to run away, brick appropriate shields. I would add that that is an excellent idea, particularly if the Q-Ship is plasma armed.
On Alan speed 12.
Since we started using engines reliant on fuel, the cruising speed will generally be 2/3s to 3/4s top speed, and cruising speed is far less destructive to the engines and uses a lot less fuel.
Speed 12 would likely look normal.
Quote:... and cruising speed is far less destructive to the engines and uses a lot less fuel.
Uhh... didn't I already say something like that in my original post on this topic? But the reason I think the pirate captain needs to "... at least wonder about it" is that the above is a general "rule of thumb" rather than an absolute, immutable law. Throughout history, there have been certain routes and certain cargos for which customers would pay a premium for particularly rapid delivery. So there was economic value in a ship that could make the run faster than her competitors. And this might particularly be the case for low volume / high value cargos. So I continue to maintain that the pirate needs to ay least ask himself whether a more sedate speed is usual for merchants on this particular route, or whether a high-speed transit would be the more expected approach. If the latter, then why is the intended target acting... unusually?
If this was some sort of high priority cargo, I would expect that they pay for a faster freight unit than a base freighter. It may just be the upengined Large Freighter, a Free Trader, or APT, depending on what is being delivered
"Speed 12?" When?
When first observed?
When you appear on freighter grade sensors/ scanners?
When you aggressively close?
You'd think any freighter would at least maneuver and/ or speed up when they see someone approaching...
The freighter is at speed 12 Low-Powered fire control costs 0.5 energy,
life support costs another 0.5 energy these two half points are drawn from the battery,
full shields (9 whole boxes) costs 1 point of energy drawn from the APR.
Recharging the battery would nominally cost (if you wanted it) one point of warp power, or a point of impulse.
Loafing along at speed 12 takes six points of warp power.
The ship has, in essence, five (four points of warp plus a point of impulse) plus the battery to play with.
As to your initial solution; The freighter will continue moving AND broadcast an S.O.S.
By the way, I forgot (honestly) to mention that. your drones are all SLOW, i.e., Speed eight (8) (The year, not mentioned, allows the use of moderate, i.e., Speed 12, drones, but none are available to you, lowly Light Raider captain, so quit your whining and gather credits for your cartel Lord0. And you DID NOT mention from what direction you approached the freighter. As you reference only a "phaser-3" I am assuming you imagine this Large freighter is in fact a small freighter, but it is a large one possessed of both a phaser-2 and a phaser-3, the phaser-2 can fire in 360°, the phaser-3 is limited to rear arc only. The freighter does have a shuttle, and, yes, it could be armed as a wild weasel or a suicide shuttle, or used as a phaser-3 platform in its own (however insignificant) right.
SPP, thanks for the additional information.
My strategy would not change, other than that I'd probably double engines on the battle pass for additional reinforcement.
Assuming they didn't heave to.
Also of interest (to me) is that none of you have chosen to use non-violent combat (NVC), so the freighter's engines will in fact survive your initial effort, at least being far less than crippled. It will likely come through your initial attack able to maintain Speed 12, although it would probably lose at least one of its two phasers, and possibly a control space.
On NVC, I offered to play nice, the Captain refused. IF a Q-ship, or help arrives, I'll want the greater typical damage output of real weapons.
Approach direction, fair point, from ahead in order to close faster in order to kill the SOS, as well as to avoid the occasional plasma Q-ship's primary plasma arcs. It will also allow for better chance of drone strikes, if it is something dangerous.
I doubt that a freighter captain will resist after after I drop his nose shield with three phaser-1s, and beam aboard 3 boarding parties, one at combat rate, two at standard rates. The disruptor, like the drones, can be saved for the unexpected.
I am confused by The example posted… the part about “Loafing along at speed 12 takes six points of warp power”.
The very next sentence is “the ship has, in essence, five (four points of warp plus a point of i pulse the battery to play with.”
A large freighter has a movement cost of 1/2 per hex moved. (That would imply that the example is referring to a large freighter.)
A small freighter, which would have two two point warp engines and a single impulse box, would normally have a movement cost of 1/3 per hex moved.
Just guessing, but it appears that The example posted is confused between a large freighter and a smaller type.
It really doesn’t matter which type is used, it is a tactics illustration. just that a large freighter would have more power available than a small freighter.
NVC is very inefficient in the damage department. I also cannot guarantee that the limited number of troops I can beam on board or land via hostile shuttle will be quick enough to capture the freighter. There's also the question of actually transferring the cargo.
It's faster to completely disable the engines, dock, send in overwhelming marines and crew (also good for finding the valuable cargo more quickly) and then use direct cargo transfer rates to get the loot.
Undock. Leave.
It's like the movie: "Gone in 60 Seconds" - though of course the process takes a bit more than that. The principle of minimizing time spent conducting the heist is the point.
This way is also better if the ship is a Q ship. You won't find that out until you're at point blank range (unless the Q ship is a plasma ship, and even then it might very well be point blank range). The overwhelming burst of fire will also give you a better chance of surviving the close range battle pass (assuming you've committed to it).
Which, in turn, means I've reconsidered on doubling. I'd always double my engines on the way in as insurance against a Q ship. Yeah, repairing the warp engine costs money, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, especially when you have a small fragile ship like an LR.
Okay, the freighter isn't quite so likely to waste its phasers on the drones. If they hold their fire, I may have problems; I can't risk the Hit-and-Runs if they haven't fired their phasers.
My shields can take two turns worth of Ph-2 hits, even at zero hex range. Get to one hex at a turn break, lock tractor on target, don't bother arming the Disruptor, full power to slow them down (possibly with my #4 shield with THEIR #4 shield, even if it means putting me at slight risk from their second phaser), launch drones (which should be able to threaten them now) and use my three Ph-1 to drop their #4 shield to conduct the Hit-and-Run raids. With a downed shield and their guns pulled, they'll have no choice but to surrender or get pounded by drones and phasers.
My post that started this discussion specified it was a LARGE (emphasis) Freighter, also that it had no "skids" or a" ducktail". I note again that I am interested in the "approach". It is a Light Raider as noted, with a disruptor (Range 22), i.e., this is a size class 4 hull, it might be Range 15 with a reduction in the Light Raider's BPV, see Annex #8B for disrupter Range) in option mount A, type A drone racks in mounts B and C with type I slow drones. I will further add the Light Raider is not (NOT) refitted and does not have a UIM.
I will add the freighter is 30 hexes away when you begin your approach, you can approach from any direction. How are you going to board the freighter and make off with your swag? The Cartel Lord wants his cut of the profits to prove you are worthy of your franchise.