Archive through March 18, 2002
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Archive through March 18, 2002
I'm still interested in writing a campaign of 6-12 scenerios to reflect a short lived state along these lines. Not a new race with new tech or anything, just a single system that manages to become independant for a short time (3 years?).
Let's assume a border system under Klingon control during the late GW. A small national guard contingent assigned. Perhaps a small fighter and/or freighter production facility. Maybe an orbiting station of some kind.
Local inhabitants are used extensively in the crewing of the ships and base. Klingon Garrison on the planet. The local elite (who have some cash) decide to join with a resistance movement.
Orion mercenaries are hired with the promise of a supply/support base in the system once independance gained. Locals arrange for the simultaneous sabotage of security stations and on the orbiting base and ships. Close quarters combat insues and the base and some of the ships are seized. The Klingon garrison on the planet is defeated.
Klingons threaten to retake the system by force unless the locals surrender. The locals appeal to another major power for support...you can see where things go from here...
In the end, it comes down to winning independance before the ISC arrive. If the system is still disputed (by combat) the ISC will "resolve" the issue. If the locals are firmly in control, the ISC will assure their independance (at least until the Andro's show up), by keeping the Klingons at bay. Historically, of course, they will not survive as an independant.
I'm invisioning several games featuring advanced boarding party combat and ground combat, old national guard ships, a base assualt, etc.
Any thoughts?
SVC; OK, no problem with the Exodrone, but how about planetary defense drones? 3 and 4 space size stuff that can only be launched from planetary silos? Weapons that are so big that they can't be fitted on ships.
Just a thought.
Jeremy; I think that's a good idea.
George: You mean, a drone or D-plasma version (THAT would be very scary) of the phaser-4?
Silo-launched planetary defense missiles. I can see a case where some core Federation members would have run a few tests with the idea, at the very least. They'd make remarkably poor weapons of interstellar aggression. If not careful, however, they could be made almost impossible to kill with their size and any armor modules they take on.
I think Jeremy and Jonathan are both on to something here. I've always liked the idea of minor states and some campaigns or scenarios based on them. Even historically minor nations have been able to have some impact on large wars. You only have to give a valid reason as to why they haven't been conquered by their larger neighbors. They could be allied to another power, the local big shot(s) could have a good reason to let them stay independent, a basically peaceful nation could allow a minor state to exist wholely within its borders (say 1-2 hexes, not more than a single province) if it had a good reason, or any number of other possiblities. SIDENOTE: I don't see this happening along the Hydran border from the time of the Klingon-Lyran conquest to after the end of the General War.
The idea of huge planet based (ie. NOT ship based) weapons does have some appeal to me. You can always take a weapon to its largest, technological size. The problem is that you would find that it would be way too big to be deployed with a mobile unit. You can't put them on a ship. You might not be able to put them on a base. But, if you can build it you can always put on a planet.
I had visions of ground combat in and around silos, where the rebels would gun it out with the local garrison, and effectively capture their own world by capturing the planetary drone defenses. Captureing a silo that holds a weapon with some punch would help encourage (not quite garauntee) a margin of security for the populace.
For the big boys (Feds, Klinks, Kzin, and so forth) it would help cut down on the cost of building expensive fleets to patrol economic interests. A larger planetary based drone would give a planetary assault more of a starbase flavor, making it a more riskful proposition for an attacker. I can see them as being a cheap alternative and/or augmentation to groundbases.
I'm not trying to bring back the Exodrone (however mournful I may be about its relegation to the realm of fantasy 
), but I think "oversized" drones are of the order for planet defenses.
I'm also pondering the possibility of fighter bases deep underground, and/or undersea based planetary fighters in addition to 3 and 4 space drones.
I'm just brainstorming here 
Hmm....how about shield generators for cities?...again, just brainstorming, because I think a post-war rebellion campaign would be fun.
If Bargantine units are to be taken seriously, can we at least remove all the name connotations to the Falklands war? It's not very professional, and there are no official scenrioes as yet, IIRC.
For those of you who havn't realised (In case there are any).
Exodrone = Exocet
Landfalk = Falkland
Bargantine = Argentina
While I understand that this game is underpinned by modern military strategy, there is no need to directly remind people of a specific war where a number of people were killed, and then make a parody of it. You can say that the scenario is modelled on the strategic situation in the Falklands campaign, but the current names are unecessary, and in my opinion, offensive.
And yet we have Moon em more Klodhoppy. And 72 Coreward.
Jeremy - you forgot about Megafighters. I haven't even seen them yet, and yet I'm SURE they belong on our yet-to-be-named planet.
Until SVC officially kills this whole "temporary independant state on the Klink border" idea, lets come up with a better name for the planet. I don't like "Bargentine" just because it sounds dumb.
Agreed, as we are departing with from the original idea anyway, I think it is a good call to detach this idea from the old Bargantine mini-campaign as much as possible. Ditch the old names.
Names for SFB races is something I have a notorious problem with. The only race I've created, the Borak, are still only a name (I have never come up with a physiology (SP?)), and I was later informed by my wife that my new race shares its name with a cleaning agent not unlike Ajax. The ships are cool, but that's a different topic.
I think late GW opens up lots of possibilities on the Klingon border. By Y185, the Klingons are being pushed back to the original borders (or beyond them, IIRC) so even the Hydran border would work. The Kzinti or Federation borders are also possibilities. I'd list my preference as Hydran, Kzinti, and Fed Border, in order.
Some units from J2 might work, as we are talking late GW.
If our locals capture an orbiting base (part of my original idea), the need for a planetary defense "super-drone" is not as nessesary. Especially if we give them a fighter pruduction facility to build fighters based both on the planet and at the base. I admit, the idea of a big planetary defense drone is an interesting concept, but building new tech into a scenerio/campaign has made them less acceptable in the past (makes it a harder sell to "the Steves").
I guess picking a border and a name is a good start.
I have problems with planet-based mega drones, if they have to travel through a life-supporting atmosphere at warp speeds.... Sounds suicidal in event of an accident or getting shot down. Two ideas: the Yet-to-be-named-race (Yt'bnar? ) has a planet orbited by two or more small airless moons, or one big one, armed to the teeth. Alternate, which I like better for some reason: the physiology of the race is such that allows their planet to be old and airless (or with a very thin atmosphere), possibly orbiting a brown dwarf, and lacking a significant top-side biosphere, with all of the life in the planetary crust near the remaining heat of the core. That would make me feel ok about littering the surface with huge missile installations and surviving repercussions of catastrophic accidents.
Naming: is Leebyahh getting a name-change too, then? The minor race I tinker with in my spare time is called the Szs'c'u Art Collective. They look like quicksilver fat headless geese with no limbs except ectoplasmic pseudopods where the wings would be and tine millipede feet on the stomach. You like? Maybe they could resettle to the Klingon empire, but I have to warn you, they're not very war-like. But if you can convince them blowing up Klingon ships is a type of performance art...
Piotr: warp-speed craft already enter and depart a planet's atmosphere, routinely! Shuttles travelling at more than one hex per second, as well as drones launched by ground-based drone bases. Unless those bases have sublight boosters to get them up and out of the atmosphere?
yeah... but these Exodrones have a 50 point warhead!
The Exodrone is dead.
I'm discussing the possibility of of drones perhaps 1.5 to 2 times the size of shipboard drones. Meant specifically for planetary defense. Whether they help with a series of small rebellions or not is anyone's guess.
Mr. Ebersole. 2x24=48, which is about 50...
Yeah, but 48 ¹ 50 
Seriously though; the much mourned Exo was a two-spacer that could be carried aboard ships. Planetary defense drones would be strictly a SAM affair.
Took a look at the Index of Known Planets in CL23. Possible existing systems that might work for the campaign we're talking about:
Klingon-Hydran Border
Landfalk/Bargantine (1114) (Obviously)
Darmot (1416)
Klingon-Kzinti Border
Farlin (1407)
Zursk (1506)
Phyllos (1707)
Klingon-Federation Border
K'brogrh (2216)
I'm not sure what existing background on these systems is out there, but I assume they have shown up in a scenario at some point. Some of these (particularly on the Kzinti border) are pretty strategic locations which might not work. Any suggestions?
I really liked the whole Bargantine thing. I am absolutley crushed that SVC has Killed them.
I need to know why though.
Olivette Roche aparently had something to do with it but who is she and what bering does what she wrote have on a ficticious SCI-FI game's off minor race created to pay respect to those who died in a war?
and why kill the "Exodrone" ?
Is their somekind of legal reason?
I cant immagine a copyright on the name "EXO"
Rus,
Olivette Roche is a character in the Star Fleet Universe, based loosely upon Oliver Stone; she is known for producing a wide range of "docudramas" of dubious SFU-historical value.
The problem with the Exodrone isn't the name; it's the unit itself. A two-space drone with a 50-point warhead that takes 12 points of damage to kill? If some little ragtag breakaway nation could come up with that, the Klingons would be all over it like Feds on banana pudding.
However, there was a historical incident, according to the latest published history (http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm), in which, right after the General War, the Hydrans launched a local operation to recapture the Landfalk system from a former Klingon satrap, but failed. Doesn't mean that anything resembling an Exodrone was involved; more likely, the Hydrans were surprised to find the little would-be power with a sizable stockpile of type-IV drones, and the tale grew in the telling.
Did SVC kill the whole Bargantine/Landfalk thing or did he just kill the Exodrone. If it did happen along the lines that Jessica describes, then the Hydrans probably underestimated the strength of the defending forces.
Jeremy; I don't know the background of any of those systems, but here's some fiction of my own off the top of my head;
1) A world that is Class K for the Klingons, but otherwise "Class M" for a race of sentients who breath the local poison. Said world is rich in Elements X, Y and Z, which though useful raw materials are not wholly that important to the Empire's economy. The Klingons keep several bases where they house troops in pressurized quarters. Native Race A burrows underneath to let the world's atmosphere into the installations; killing the troops.
2) Some backwater world, with a small garrison (if any), with untapped Natural Resource X, manages an old fashioned coup. In the short run they cash in to buy leftover hardware, upgun merchants (bought and comandeered), and place their faith in the transient fact that the Klingon forces, like the other big boys, are nearly exhausted.
3) A local Klingon governor decides to make a powerplay, starts commandeering ISF ships, as well as dealing with Orions (or whoever's around....maybe even the Selts?) to build a small fleet.
4) An LDR refugee column (a varity of freighters and perhaps 3 police ships) are fleeing for safer space, and settle in a border world, making a deal to augment the rebels with their own small force (whatever it is).
Myself, I think all these possibilities would make a good Klingon "civil war" of sorts if properly tied together. Perhaps a "Rebel Alliancec" of sorts? Perhaps the Vudar are involved in some way? I think's it almost a certainty that the Orions and Hydrans would have a hand in it.
My gut tells me that any northern rebellion would be short lived, largely because the WYN area is probably heavily patrolled by all the three superpowers. That verse a rebellion located along one of the "Southern" (rimward) borders. Although that being said I can conceive a WYN/Orion profiteering scheme for any inclined rebellious faction along the northern borders.
Just some thoughts.
Stuart; just the Exodrone. He hinted at the possibility of minor uprisings. Their scale is unkown, but in terms of SFB they would've been relatively small.
Jessica,
Thanks. I thought I had recognized that name but I couldnt place it.
I propose a new theary...
Olivette Roche was really a fictitious character invented by the Bargantines to try and throw off the possibility of foreign invasion of their flegling independant state.
And BTW,
as I recall, the Klingons economy had been so severely hurt after the war that they did not deem it worth the risk to lose a few more precious ships trying to recapture the Bargantines. They knew of the Bargantines dispute with the Hydrans and rather than go into an adversly affected situation, they promised the recocnition of their continued indepenence if they agreed to adhere to Klingon interests. A new D-5 war cruiser was to be delivered to the Bargantines for their efforts against the Hydrans and as incentive to get the Bargantines to agree to the Klingon terms.
There is also exhaustion.
Note that most of the wars after the general war are "defensive" affairs-- during both the ISC and Andro wars, the various nations were under attack.
I'm thinking that even warlike races like the klinks might get war weary after an intersteller version of WWI. That might also explain the trade wars better than magical organians-- an entire generation of officers who grew up and had their initial cruises during a period of attrition warfare, being detirmined that *they* will never get trapped into such madness.
I'd also bet that a fair number of after action studies would demonstrate that even had the nations won, the general war was still far too expensive to beconsidered a success.
Jeremy - you could increase your list of planets, I think. Is it not true that there are planets in every F&E province? But they are less important ones that don't amount to 'Minor' status?
Certainlty. The list I made were the only border systems I could find in Klingon space that were listed in the CL article. Making up a new planet (and a hex) would obviously be possible.
Using an existing one just makes creating the background a little easier.