Is there any difference in game play between a shuttle that takes 6 to kill but has a 2 box shield, vs a shuttle that takes 8 to kill but has no shield?

I doublt a shuttle engine has enough power to reinforce or repair even a single shield box.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:26 pm: Edit

X2 shuttles could all be of the HTS variety, just taking up a single shuttle box.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:34 pm: Edit

Jeff: NO there is no difference. But there is a difference between that and the shuttles I propose. Shuttles cannot repair them by them selves. The two boxes are repaired with ONE deck crew action and the two damage they absorb donot contribute to cripled status.

By Kraig Uhl (Runningman) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 01:28 am: Edit

I know this idea has been brought up a while back (by me and others) but I was wondering if it has been discussed and discredited or what. The idea was that X2 ships could change the movement cost of the ship up or down with a penalty of changing the turn mode favorably or unfavorably. For instance a movement cost one ship with a turn mode of C could change its movement cost to one and a third and have a turn mode of B or change movement cost to two thirds and have a turn mode of D. This can only be used with forward movement, not warp tacs.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:01 am: Edit

heh, now that wouldn't be overwhelming or anything

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:24 am: Edit

I'ld rather do tight turns via risking Excess Dam Damage than go to messing around with M.C. Vs T.M. adjustments.


Speaking of turning tighter, there is a way of making X2 ships easier to fly, simply remove one of the restrictions, specifically the restriction that TACs can't be done by a ship that is moving.

Allowing TACs to work at all speeds would be easy and create ships that are seriously good at manouvering.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:27 am: Edit

I'ld rather do tight turns via risking Excess Dam Damage than go to messing around with M.C. Vs T.M. adjustments.


Has anyone done any Calcs on this...I have a hunch that that'll greatly aid Low Turn Mode ( Klingons anyone!?! ) ships as they'll be able to gain high speed ( or worse high speed and full overloads ) on turns they wish to go straight ( or make say one turn ) whilst lousy turn mode ships will winde up paying more to turn more tightly than just going faster and paying the high turn mode cost and suffering from less availible energy.

E.g.
Klingon XD7, Turn Mode B, MC 1
Fed XCA, Turn Mode D, MC 1
We make two standard shifts.
The Klingons B => C => D & MC1 => 0.75 => 0.66 ( although if we through MC 0.75 out of the game to simpligy movement then it'll actually be down to 0.2 )
The Feds D => C => B ( which is cool but ) MC 1 => 1.5 => 2 ( Even at 1 => 1.25 > 1.5 )

The Feds are still paying pawer to gain no real bonus but the Klingons can save ( assunming a battle speed of 24 ) a full 8 points of power simply by being careful about turns, where they don't mind changing their turn mode!

By Ben Moldovan (Shadow1) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 12:23 am: Edit

An idea just came to me. Don't be too hard on me, I haven't gotten much sleep recently, and it's late. I haven't had time to read all the X2 archives recently. I've read all the drone stuff and a significant amount of this one. I was just reading some folks talking about whether Auxiliary Reactors should be obsolete, and I think someone mentioned reserve power (such as batteries). That got me thinking. Please bear with me here.

Why not kind-of combine the two? The way we do reserve power in SFB, to me, has always seemed kind of... how to put it? Clunky. Rather than like the TV shows, where you seem to have a continuum... a bigger hoard of precious reserve power that gradually vanishes as the situation gets more desperate and you do more stuff. Compare that to, say, the equivalent of the TOS Enterprise... Unrefitted Fed CA. Has four boxes of batt power. I have to OL my photon, my reserve drops to 0. I refill it next turn, goes back to 4. See what I'm saying? Now, it's a bit better in modern times with more advanced batteries. But still not quite what I envision in my mind when I think back to the Trek TV shows.

Anyway, to combine the two... Say, you have a certain max power potential. Hmmm, just to pull a number out of the air, say 20 points. Make, say, 4 points self generating each turn, and maybe you can draw an equivalent amount from the other power systems if you can spare it, and add that to the batteries. Hmm... this isn't quite what I first thought of when the idea came to me... what I was thinking originally was like... a combination of APR/AWR and batteries where you essentially have a power source that you don't have to pre-allocate.

Hm... both ideas are interesting, maybe they could be combined somehow. Anyway, this whole thing isn't fleshed out. Just a general idea. Anyone want to take this and run with it, feel free. And like I said before, I remind you that I haven't got much sleep lately, so go easy on me, everyone. Must get going. Good night.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Ben: That got me thinking...

What kind of dynamic would be introduced with X2 batteries being self charging (and elimiating APR)? Take a 4 point X2 battery. You drain it to zero. It will recharge at a rate of one point per turn to its max holding. You could, prior to it filling its self, add power to fill it early from other sources. If the battery is full it produces no power. Recharging power is available following the turn in which it was drained (i.e. during EA). So on turn A you drain a point on any impulse; on turn B EA one point of power is recharged and available.

Drain a battery compleatly and leave it alone it will be fully charged it four turns. This sort of power is standard power only. Batteries can still be used for reserve warp etc. but there must be capacitence available. You could elect to not recharge automatically to allow room for reserve alternative power.

As per normal batteries you could use the recharge power during EA to make room for reserve specialty power.

Comments anyone?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit

An explaination:

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Quote:

If the battery is full it produces no power. Recharging power is available following the turn in which it was drained (i.e. during EA).

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By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 05:13 pm: Edit

What's the difference between

a self-charging battery (new rule) and

a battery box with an APR box somewhere else on the ship (existing rule)

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 11:39 pm: Edit

The difference is if the battery is full you don't generate the power. This gives you an incentive to use some of your reserve power every turn.

All it really does is reduce the power you have available on turn 1. As long as you aren't making a turn 1 battle pass the difference is moot.

Creative idea, but I don't think it works.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:57 am: Edit

I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere but I do not want any base changes in X2-Y205. The X1 bases are good enough and I don't want to waste dozens of SSD pages on bases.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:26 pm: Edit

I agree on Base changes.

Jeff: Tos put it well. Creative idea, but it doesn't work. In the end I meant it as an example of adding complexity when it isn't needed.

There is a difference in design, I'll point out. Though if the batteries are full it generates no additional power when it does it generates more. X2 ship (in my designs) have more numbers of Batteries than APR, so if you keep using your batteries you actually generate 1 or 2 more points of power. Anyway, it's not a good enough idea to go with, so I'll let that idea go with the wind.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Minor thing, but bases can easily wait until X2R unless you simply did a single generic base each for BATS and SB.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Have a basic upgrade of the phasers and batteries. Shields are sort of maxed out and they don't really need power. Simply have a Y210 refit.

In Year 210, each race began upgrading it bases with the Y210 refit. This included the new XPH-4 (subtract 5 from the range and use the old chart), all Ph-3s became Ph-6s, all batteries hold four points, Shuttles and drones are the same type as opperated on X2 ships for that race. All heavy weapons become the best/heaviest available for that race. Shields and scout sensors remaind the same as do the system tracks (Sen, scan, DamCon, Excess). Y210 refited bases become XBases and are out fitted to repair X2 ships. Some of each races bases were upgraded beginning in Y205 but this was only the core Starbases and the Homeworld Bases. In Y210 the first BATTS began to recieve the Y210 refit. See annex ???? for specific allotment of changes for heavy weapons.

There is no special SSD. Simple mark the changes on the exsisting SBX and BATTSX SSDs from Module X.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Yeah.

BTTY, Drone, Ph-1, Ph-3s, Ph-Gs all will need to be changes...scout channels will need to be changed probably as well.


Speaking of Scout Channel changes, I was thinking of having, scout channels being ( after a certain year ) able to be set to any of the non EW producing setting and then like the bridge as special sensor be able to opperate without being blinded.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:11 pm: Edit

Base Channels don't get blinded. On ships that's another question. I've never liked the blinded scout channels thing. With all that technology they can't blink the channel so it doesn't get overloaded by enegy they can antisipate (they know that the phasers are about to fire).

Todays night vision has circutry that filters high readings so as not to damage the sensitive screen and blind the viewer. I would think in the 23rd centry they could protect such important equipement no matter how sensitive it was.

I think another way could have been worked out to make up for the balance end of channel blinding.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 01:15 am: Edit

Loren,

It's also a game-balance issue. It keeps special sensors off combat ships. They would be especially obnoxious given an X-ship's power curve.

Remember the mantra: "Remember what Commander's X2..and avoid doing that at all costs.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 02:57 pm: Edit

John: That's what I address and acknowledged in the last line of my post. I actually have a solution but it is far too late in the games developement to apply it. I only was stating that I never was pleased with that rule but as stands I understand the game balance thing. Indeed I think it is the primary reason for it. But it still isn't logical to me. I know the mantra, believe you me, don't worry.

Heck, that's why I created Special Bridge. To give those obviously needed and valuable abilities with out the unbalancing power of Scout Channels on every ship. Special Bridge cannot generate or allow the lending of EW in any way.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 04:26 pm: Edit

...so what's your solution?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 05:08 pm: Edit

X2 ships have some natural, unblinded, special sensor like abilities, but not the full abilities of a scout. This isn't attached to a specific box, rather its a function of an undamaged sensor/scanner suite. The first point of damage eliminates the special functionality (whatever it is).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 06:46 pm: Edit

An optional rule on how scout sensors are used. It comes down to, though, there would be a rule of no-special sensors on ships exept where published and in option mounts.

The rule, basically, was the you power a channel with one point of power. This allows you to use one function for a turn. EW is a function. Instead of pouring power into it (1-6 power netting 1-6 EW repectively) the function generates 2 EW. That means a typical four channel scout could generate a maximum of 8 total EW divided among 1 to 4 targets. Additionally, only specific devices can generate unnatural EW. This includes Scout Sensor Channels, EW Fighters and pods, and ECM drones. Probes and probe drones could generate ECCM. This does NOT include ships, fighters without pods, shuttles, bases without using Sensor Channels etc. Scout Sensor Channels are not blinded.

So, a CAR+ vs. D7K would have no EW involved except for a ECM drone (which becomes a hot target in this environment). By the same token, the presence of a scout is very valuable but it efforts are usually focused on a single unit as its resources are limited. It always becomes a hot target but since it uses less power for EW this is offset some. Targeting shifts are rarely more than +1 and EM'ing becomes only a slightly more valuable tactic. Offensive EW is more offensive (albeit with a lesser shift, typically).

This system works real good and is vastly more simple. My statements are backed with about 20 years of playtesting. BPVs and such all remain the same. Scouts in the presence of other ships, like always, use Eco BPV.

SVC has already turned it down.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 10:33 pm: Edit

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Quote:

Remember the mantra: "Remember what Commander's X2..and avoid doing that at all costs.

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By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 02:07 am: Edit

Old X2's mertis are obvious...hence the mantra.