One of the things the article in module P6 mentions is that SVC was specifically looking for some kind of "totally new" weapon that all X2 ships could have. "Totally new" to me, at least, means not a phaser or existing heavy weapon; it's gotta be something totally unheard of, sort of like the Dis-Dev was for the Andros.

Me personally, I have no clue. There are much more creative people than I on this board, so who's got some ideas? No matter how wild or crazy, let's toss 'em out and see what comes up. It's brainstorming, so keep the judging of anyone's ideas to a minimum; the object is to get out as many ideas as we can, in hopes that something good will come up.

The first thing I could think of was inspired by the "Bombast Laser" from Mech Warrior 4. It was a weapon that gained in power the longer you charged it. So, say all X2 ships have some kind of beam weapon that you can apply power to every turn, and store until you want to fire it. Sort of a mini-mauler, with a cap on how much you can hold based on size class.

Who's next?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Some weapons are hit or miss. Some weapons are range of effect. Create a weapon that is neither. But having all races use it doesn't seem very flavorful to me.

A range 2 mauler, 360 arc. Constant, reliable, inefficient damage that can fire once/impulse, but not something I'd want all races to get.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Mauler is a hit or miss weapon anyway.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Tos: A weapon that does one or two D6 damage no matter what the range?

How about an EMP weapon oft proposed. Perhaps it causes 2d6 systems to stop operating. Roll the damage on the DAC and mark those systems with a dot. They cannot operate for the remainder of the turn (or 8 impulses, whichever is more). Ignores shields. Requires like 6 or 8 power and is a two turn arming weapon with a range of 8. How about 2d6 minus range. If used at R0 half damage is feedback with a minimum of 2 points.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 05:19 am: Edit

Why does this weapons have to be a DF weapon.


What about a new shuttle mode!?!...the area effect shuttle.
You arm it up, say 2-3 warp power over three turns.
It moves on down to the target hex and explodes.
It has to be launched on a balistic coarse.
But it explodes like a T-bomb inflicting 1 point of damage per point of warp power ( round any fraction down ) held in it...it'ld explode like a ship with a blast radius based on the energy held...X2 HTS could hold 2-4 points of warp power per turn.


Or we could look at some other kind of weapon.
What about all X2 Phaser Pistols and Phaser Rifles have internally tracking targeting computers that allow an opperator to strike many more targets every turn. Effectively giving a die roll shift to the BPs using those weapons.
We might couple this with light armour for BPs so that all the X2 BPs have a negative die roll shift when being attacked.
We could also mount special SSD boxes in the ship marked Medical Aid Station...the MAS would allow wounded crew ( one BP per turn ) to be healed back to full strength just like a legendary doctor ( although it's probably an android doctor and a whole crew unit of medical staff opperating it ) was healing them in his sick bay.
I'm not sure how many aid stations there should be on a ship ( maybe one per combat location on the ship ( see Module M ) or maybe some number like 2 per point of MC rounded up.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:33 am: Edit

What about a T-bomb launcher that detonates as soon as it's laid?

Choose a hex within range 35.

Range	1-2	3-8	9-15	16-25	26-35
Hit	1-5	1-4	1-3	1-2	1-1
Near Miss	6	5-6	4-5	3-4	2
Wild Miss	x	x	6	5-6	3-6

On a hit, score 10 points on the facing shield of everything in that hex.

On a near miss, roll 1d6 for direction, then 1d6 for distance, and score the 10 points in the new hex.

On a wild miss, roll 1d6 for direction, then 2d6 for distance, a second 1d6 for a new direction, then 1d6 for distance.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 11:40 am: Edit

I think the idea is stillborn. Both because it's impossible to come up with a weapon that is not version of the classic seeker or DF weapons. Then the even more difficult work of explaining how every race could invent (or steal) this new weapon.

BUT the P-V can be such a weapon, boring as that idea may seem.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:22 pm: Edit

Jeff: Can I offer a variant on your idea?

Launch it from a probe and give it a 10 hex max range. Next make it a "Not quite a whole hex affect" and use that chart for each unit in the hex. Change Near Miss to Half Damage and Wild Miss to 1 damage. Full hit is 10 damage.

Ooooh, I know. Full hit is 10 damage to the facing shield. Half Damage is 5 to either adjacent shield and miss is 1 damage is 1 to the opposite shield. This reflects various positioning of what ever is in that hex.

To make this not too dangerous against Seeking Weapons make it explode during movement the following impulse. If your targets move that impulse then hold your fire.

The range 10 limit makes is not so dangerous to Bases.

Jeff, your weapon in masses is very dangerous to Bases given that even if it misses, Bases usually have so much stuff around them that you might hit something anyway. The same goes for a fleet. Such a weapon would have an interesting effect on Super-Stacking. Encuraging stacking at long range and encuraging the opposite when the To-Hit factor gets better.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit

What about a rule "Positional stabilizers are immune to this weapon."

I want something that discourages super-stacking at close range. But, the longer the shot, the more it should scatter.

Loren, I like the idea of "fire it during impulse 8, but roll for where it explods after movement of impulse 9."

Or, to make it more challenging,

"Fire during direct fire weapons of impulse 8.
The fact that the weapon has been fired is announced.
The target hex and current range are written down.
During direct fire of impulse 16, roll for scatter and mark damage."

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:10 pm: Edit

Or something really scarry.

A mine that is normal in all ways except it MOVES 1 hex on impulse 1 of the next turn (or after 8 impulses).

Now the scarry part is that even though you have been tracking that ships path, which hex is that mine in. Ya, you know he transported it there but the mine could be anywere in the mega hex.

BPV cost? I'd say 6. Two up from 4.

Can replace any or all alloted T-Bombs.

NSM cost...10.

Bases...Hmm, not much use there.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Loren, (M2.61) Secret mine placement - i.e., roll it out the shuttle bay and secretly record the hex -- It's an "optional" rule.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 05:27 am: Edit

---

Quote:

Now the scarry part is that even though you have been tracking that ships path, which hex is that mine in. Ya, you know he transported it there but the mine could be anywere in the mega hex.

---

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 03:35 am: Edit

We do have a couple gizmos that all races have:

ph-5/ph-6

Special Bridge

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 05:36 am: Edit

Ph-5...Ph-6
S-Bridge.
A.S.I.F.
Any Box.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 07:33 am: Edit

eh, note my post was NOT in response to Jeffs post.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 05:49 pm: Edit

Had a thought about this. I think many of us agree that a totally new weapon for X2 will be hard to come up with, at least if it's to be for every X2 ship as SVC mentioned in P6. There've been several suggestions that the P5 could be this weapon. Well, it occured to me that the P5 is rather like the main guns on a ship; they are multi-purposed weapons used for pretty much every occassion. But, real guns have something phasers don't; different types of ammo for different occassions.

What if there were a way for X2 ships to "tune" the P5 to gain damage bonuses against certain targets while suffering penalties against others? You could specify how a bank would be used in a given turn, and during that turn you would gain a +1 shift on your roll results to determine damage against the specified type of target, and a -1 against anything else. For example, you might have them tuned to plasma defense, gaining a bonus against plasma torpedoes but incurring a penalty if firing against a ship.

Thoughts? This would make the P5 certainly much more advanced than the P1 or any other phaser, and might fit the bill as a "different" weapon that all X2 ships could have.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Interesting idea. I wonder, though, how one would keep track of such a proccess, simply.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Well, I'm not sure right off, but my thought would be that you'd designate how a group of phasers would be tuned during EA. For example, the XDD I put up the other day has two groups of phasers; four FX and three RX. Say the four FX ones would, as a group, be tuned as anti-shield, and the three RX as anti-drone. Might have to have some sort of simple form for this, with a grid for phaser group number, turn, and how it would be tuned. Also, we'd have to define each possible "frequency" and it's benefits/penalties.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:53 am: Edit

Well...

I would like to see the X2Ph-1 be able to be tunned aswell.

We need not have a negative shift of the non tunned capasities iether, after all we're not inventing a new system for a ship to be able to perform but that doesn't alter the BPV but rather we are inventing a whole new technology base.

It could be linked into the new high powered X-Aegis meaning you get the bonus on any one of the following and the rest run automatically.
• Mines.
• Drones.
• Plasma.
• Shuttles ( and Fighters ).
• PFs.


I would also like to keep the system simple so would only allow ALL the phaser of a vessel to be set to one of these modes, the reason being that the ship only has one central computer and the central computer has the subroutines that allows the weapon to be fired in these anti system methods ( we may or may not choose to have it fire with the bonus in rapid pulse mode ).
In this way one would only need to make a note in the note line of the EAF as to which type of targeting was being used.

We could even allow it to be set for anti-shipping work if the mode was set by a particularl size class...and an anti-asteroid mode.

Also by linking it to X-Aegis we can limit it to R15 so it won't become the truely horrid Retrograde weapon it could become ( I mean with a -1 shift on ships, the Ph-1 do to ships @ R75 what an X1's Ph-1s will do at R16.)

I would also like to see it being quite restricted in how one changes from mode to mode ( a kickback for having no negative penalty mode ) such that to switch from one mode to another, requires switch the current mode off in EA and swinting the next mode on in the EA after that...leaving one blank turn...but because there will be no negative mode, that blank turn won't be too much of a problem.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:14 am: Edit

I'd keep a negative shift. If the phaser gets a bonus against one type of target, there should be an offset. It promotes tactical decision making, and mirrors the real-world inspiration for it. AP ammor, for example, does less damage against soft targets than HE, while HE hasn't got the penetrating value of AP ammo. That feel should be kept, IMHO.

Not sure I'd want the P1 to have it, either. Every race will mount the P5 to some degree, and those that mount it exclusively usually have less than the ones with a mix. The fact of having more P1's is enough to make up for this ability, and it makes the P5 the "new" weapon SVC was looking for.

Agreed on the X-Aegis, and I can go either way on designating how many of the ships phasers are tuned at a time.

By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Eagle) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 08:31 am: Edit

I like this! Good thinking Mike.

Making decisions in EA is good, it forces you to think ahead, and keeping it to GROUPS of phasers is good. (That every phaser of the ship should be forced into a particular mode won't work techno babblewise after the phaser room article in cl25.)
There should be a energy cost associated to this perhaps.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:32 am: Edit

I believe all negative shifts are incredibly unbalancing. Consider a LWO adds 15% to the BPV, and is considered a bargain. I have no empirical evidence to support this claim.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:38 am: Edit

What if the P5 could be tuned to either do more shield damage or more internals? Tuned for shields the weapon would do +25% against shields and -25% when calculating internals? Tuned for internals the weapon would do -25% against shields and +25% against internals. A single decision would be made for all P5 phasers during EA. It might violate KISS but I believe a chart could be made to support it.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:13 am: Edit

Negative shifts are unblancing, but so are positive ones. The point being you give up one kind of effectiveness to gain another. If my ship has it's phasers tuned to damage plasmas with a +1 die shift, and a -1 die shift on something else (say shields, for example) that's a decision I have to make based on the tactical situation. Simply allowing a positive shift only would, IMHO, be much more unbalancing because there would be no penalty to offset your decision.

Regarding the +25 or -25, a chart would be necessary. A simple -1 or +1 might be easier. There will be some issues to work around, of course; like, what happens when a shot tuned to shield damage penetrates a shield and hits the hull.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 02:45 pm: Edit

Mike, just a reminder of something I have to watch out for myself, that in SFB minus shift is good and plus is bad, except on the Marine Casualty tables. So a minus shift against plasmas would damage them better and cause a plus shift against other things.

Anyway, that happens to me all the time when I'm writing since intuitavely plus is good.

Regarding the idea, interesting. Look forward to the details.