Archive through August 10, 2003
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
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New X2 Generic Weapon:
Archive through August 10, 2003
Way, way too Franchise.
Ya, darn that ST:6!
That's what nailed it down beyond doubt, but that's really a thrad that runs through all the movies.
Loren,
That's right. The rule was intended to show a change in the energy frequency of the phaser; it has nothing to do with targeting. 3 free ECCM for fine tuning with a penalty of "only" 2 free ECCM against other targets is overkill, IMHO.
Feds do have drones. Perhaps a new photon module mounted on a drone. It would be hell to charge but could be rather dangerous when starting at WS3. Perfectly reasonable development and it gives the Feds something the Kzinti and Klingons won't have.
If you want to give it to everyone you could call it a variation of the suicide shuttle.
A photon torpedo mounted on a drone? Sounds like it gets the disadvantages of both.
The arming cost of a photon, vs. no energy needed for a warhead.
And limited ammo.
I thought that was an already rejected proposal.
Well anyway I still think some new radical capability for the Phaser is in order. How is everyone going to all of a sudden create a brand new weapon unless it's based on an existing weapon (e.g. Phaser) or copied from Andro tech (which I believe is verboten)?
I think SVC mentioned a "loiter" drone with repeatable phaser. How about an automated PF? It would be the smallest possible SC5 unit. It could potentially be faster and more maneuverable than a GW-PF because it wouldn't need to keep a biological pilot alive, not to mention using X2 tech.
At the risk of wandering into old-X1 mistakes, how about overloads for weapons that specifically require Warp Movement (i.e. Warp Engine) Power? The idea being that Warp Engine power will vastly improve the weapon's potential at the cost of the ship's speed/maneuverability. Starbases wouldn't be able to have this feature.
How about an Information Warfare function for Scouts? They could hack an enemy unit and shut it down or cause some other chaos. How about an Electronic Warfare Support Measures (ESM) function that would improve the effectiveness of ECM/ECCM (which these days we call ES/EA/EP respectively)?
I suggested elsewhere an ADD-type Phaser weapon that would be effective against Plasmas as well as Drones. I also suggested the SC6 "heavy" drone.
What else might we come up with?
Actually going through J2 and creating remote controlled PF for X1R might be fun for the Lyrans and bring PFs back to life in X2, atleast for one race.
Interesting idea, MJC.
Could you post some first-draft rules in the Attrition Units section?
RBN makes a good point.
Technically, Andro phasers aren't necessarily P-2's, they're weapons who are effectively P-2s for most purposes.
Suppose we had a new broadbase weapon that we split even-up with phasers on a ship? I've been staying out of this discussion because I'm trying to figure out what kind of interesting variation we could do to it.
Question: Can we go so far as to rewrite the DAC? We're starting to really get away from the sort of ship it was intended to work with.
An idea that popped into my head while writing this: Suppose everybody gets a micro-mauler on a turret? Suppose The mauler is now small enough to mount on a ship without wrapping the ship around it? It would run off the ship's existing battery power, no spare batteries. Just a thought. Take it for what it's worth.
John I suspect rewriting the DAC is DOA with SVC.
It's interesting to note that people are dancing around the concept of a starship-mounted Ph-4. I'm not suggesting we go that route (another DOA proposal I think) but it seems that some of us want a weapon with more kick. This is not really a "new" weapon. Again I think this idea can be accomplished by goosing up existing weapons. This would not be a "new" weapon either. I'm not trying to shoot anyone down here, just mentioning my observations. In the meantime, what reaction to some of the other suggestions I posted last night:
1) AI-PF (haven't looked at J2 yet)
2) Warp Movement power-required overloads
3) IW for Scouts
4) ESM for Scouts
5) "Ph-ADD"
6) SC6 drone
Brodie,
Here's my thoughts on these proposals:
- AI-PF: Maybe. A PF is still a ship, though, even if a very small one. Maybe AI heavy fighters?
- Warp powered overloads: I don't necessarily object to a high power cost for some X2 weapons, but the warp requirement is sort of a flavor issue. Photons need it already; others don't. Are we sure we want all weapons to need warp power when they previously didn't?
- IW for scouts: Fine with this.
- ESM for scouts: Not sure what this means; can you elaborate?
- Ph-ADD: I like. A better point-defense system is called for, I think, for some of the races. For a simulator race I'm developing, I use a point defense plasma; sort of a cross between a plasma D and a bolt. It has better range than an ADD, but has damage that drops with range.
- SC6 drone: Just me, "bigger" doesn't mean "better". I actually sort of envisioned X2 drones being smaller and more efficient, but with the same or slightly better punch than earlier ones. A type XII, for example, might be a one space drone with a single 20 point warhead, and 6 damage, with a speed of 32. Same size as before, just more "oomph.". Physically large drones will be a harder sell, IMO.
Ya'know, what if probes could be launched at zero energy with the effectiness of an ADD? Combine the ADD-5 and the probe launcher. Not overpowering but finally more than just a free hit.
J.T.:
I don't have J2 so someone else will have to do it, if it's to be done at all.
Tos:
Actually that's not so insaine afterall.
Even 1 point of power on the turn of launch ( 0+1 to follow correct probe fire rate ) to hoik it at the target would be cool.
Even if it was fairly limited.
| Range | 0 | 1 | 2 |
| To Hit | 1-6 | 1-4 | 1-2 |
Not sure if just R0 would be okay...it's pretty lousey against seekers except when the enemy does and R0 anchor which he won't if he knows you got this ability and furthermore after Y181 it wasn't all that advantagous anyway.
Mike,
1) AI-HF v. AI-PF - correct me if I'm wrong but a HF is a SC6 unit. I think there are limitations placed on SC6 units that are not present with SC5 units. Otherwise sure, why not an AI-HF? I need to go back an review fighter and PF info.
2) "Are we sure we want all weapons to need warp power when they previously didn't?" Keep in mind that this was oriented toward a "generic" (i.e. all races) weapon. I'm looking at Phasers right now (yes I know it's teetering back toward OL-Ph) but of course it could apply to other weaps. I'm still looking into this one to avoid the pre-X-fix problems.
3) If we do an IW thing, how would this work? I tossed the idea out there but haven't looked into the mechanics for it yet.
4) ESM (aka SIGINT) would enhance ECM and/or ECCM. The basic idea being that each turn ESM is in use, a net increase in EW points is gained. The details are still on the drawing board.
5) Stealing from my post elsewhere: a "Ph-ADD" is an ADD load that doesn't fire HV slugs but rather is the chassis for a one-shot close-in phaser burst. The Ph-ADD has its own internal power supply that is consumed on firing the phaser burst. The burst is aimed by the Ph-ADD chassis itself on launch.
6) I think we could go both ways, Mike. Potent, little, and very fast (Spd 64-96) SC7 drones and big, survivable, scary SC6 drones. Again stealing from a previous post: the SC6 drones would be hard mounted using something similar to a mechlink on a one-drone-per-link basis. Of course they might be mounted in internal bays but that would essentially be like a miniature shuttle bay. Again, on the drawing board.
TOS, interesting idea.
What if X2 drones went the other way. How about a two turn endurance, speed 32 (variable), standard/ R8-warp guided, 6 point warhead, Type VI based drone( 1/2 space). Typically fired from a X2 version of the E-Rack.
EDIT: Hmmm, should have posted this in X2 drones. Duh...
I'll post to the attrition units thread my comments on remote-control stuff.
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R.Brodie, GW PFs do not pay for life support anyway. The crew all wear spacesuits (K0.22)
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Overloads for weapons that require warp power - Which weapons did you have in mind? Photons already have an OL.
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Information Warfare - I could see this being used in the FOG scenario where a scout could disrupt enemy communications.
EW Support Measures - What's the difference between this and loaning extra EW points?
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ADD-type phaser - See Omega-1's microphasers. You basically have the same thing.
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Rewriting the DAC is DOA. And, consider the SIF that some of us are proposing; it's based off the original DAC too.
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Micro-mauler? Don't think it'll fly. What makes maulers scary is the total damage they generate. Power-to-damage is not that great.
However, with 3 (or 4) point batteries, a true mauler.... 
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Ship-mounted ph-4. No. The original proposal for the ph-5 was a half-strength ph-4, and turned out to be way too powerful.
I'm not so sure that X2 ships could have their own DAC but the ships would have to be way different and that is one way that a 'Way Different" X2 ship could work. X1 and GW ships would all use the original chart while X2 would use their own.
At this point there is no proposal I've seen that would warrent such a move, though.
Micro-mauler: I could see this. It would only be able to use battery power but would add an interesting dynamic. Let it fire only foreward and use power from whole but individual batteries. That could certainly be the "All Race" weapon.
Too much, otherwise we'd have seen a Flamehawk-X by now.
At R0-1, a mauler has the same power-to-damage ratio as the photon torp and a far better to-hit.
How 'bout this?
A beam weapon that burns a hole through the ship. After X amount of internal damage it simply doesn't score more damage at a given DAC column and digs deeper?
Burning a hole throught the ship might imply a maximum amount of internals that can be scored by the weapon.
Me personally, I still think that the new X2 weapon is going to be some function or property of the P5. What this will be, I don't know. But phasers are the only universal weapon, and the only one that everyone can have without unbalancing the game.
I can think of a few options for the P5 to make it different, based on some discussions we've seen.
- The tuning bit; tune a phaser or bank of phasers to be better against one target, with a loss of efficiency against another.
- Tractor-Phaser: linking the ships phaser to a tractor beam. As long as you've got the beam on and a target held, you get max damage for your phasers without even rolling.
- Warp powered phaser: arm a P5 with an additional point of warp energy for better damage (-2 on your to hit roll).
- "Heel-Nipper" phaser: arm the P5 with some extra power, and it slows a target like the heel nipper. Have to really be careful with this one.
- Group phasers: Group phasers for more punch. For each phaser grouped and fired together at one target, at a point of damage. (i.e., Fed XCA fires six FX P-5's; add six to the damage total).
These are simply brainstorming; none have been worked out any further than what I posted just now, save the "tunable" phasers (which as of right now I'll be using, unless something better comes along.)
Mike,
I think #5 can fly. The others seem a bit exotic for an every-race-gets-it ability. Maybe this would justify what SVC mentioned in P6 about a small number of large groups of phasers.
Although I hadn't considered it, my two SSDs lend themselves to that rule. As a guideline, I'll avoid using ph-5 and ph-6 in groups of less than 3, and use ph-1 or ph-3 in spaces for 1 or 2 phasers.
Would this also apply to the ph-6?
Here's an idea: By using the full three points of power through the PH-5 it becomes Moleculer Disruption Phaser. Still does the same damage against shields but internal hits are halved (round down) and internals hit by such a beam cannot be repaired. They're just gone. These internals are always the first to be rolled in any volley.
Hmmm, maybe that's too crazy violent.
Quote:Ship-mounted ph-4. No. The original proposal for the ph-5 was a half-strength ph-4, and turned out to be way too powerful.
If one race had a Ph-4Jr as it's heavy weapon that might be fun...I'm not so fond of webs and fusions need tinkering ( or replacing ).
Quote:At R0-1, a mauler has the same power-to-damage ratio as the photon torp and a far better to-hit.
Yes I can see how 100% is better than 100%.
The Photons problems are more affected by EW and Feedback damage at those ranges.
Quote:How 'bout this?
A beam weapon that burns a hole through the ship. After X amount of internal damage it simply doesn't score more damage at a given DAC column and digs deeper?
I proposed an idea that phasers ( GW phasers ) could fire as point of energy rather than slashing back and forth and thus become a hit or miss weapon.
SVC has never gotten back to me about it.
We could do have that as the unique weapon for all races...the point attack phaser fire mode!
It'ld cut through sheilds like a spearfish drone and then do MC x 4 internals ( all on one DAC result ) and then leave out the oppossing shield.
Ph-3s would dow 5 points of damage, Ph-2s and 1s would do 10, Ph-4s would do 20 and so I guess Ph-5s would do 15.
Writting up a new hit or miss table that keeps the fire mode in balance makes the Photon look like an accurate weapon though ( with the Ph-2 having a maximum range of 4 hexes) .
Quote: Group phasers: Group phasers for more punch. For each phaser grouped and fired together at one target, at a point of damage. (i.e., Fed XCA fires six FX P-5's; add six to the damage total).
Actually I wouldn't mind seeing ( but this would only work against PFs and smaller ) a +1 shift if the phaser hit during the previous Aegis step. So ships with full aegis could fire one phaser on each of three steps and then fire the rest on the last step with a +3 shift...working with a pinpoint phaser fire it get's even better.
As to the tractor idea we could allow the X2 ship that has tractored and object to fire virtual attacks ( that inflict no damage but do provide the +1 bonus ) so that when the real attacks are fired in a latter Aegis step they are even more accurate.
Here's a freebee, alter the X-aegis rules for X2 ships such that ALL OBJECTS HELD IN A TRACTOR BEAM REGUARDLESS OF WHAT KIND OF OBJECT IT IS, MAY BE FIRED ON AS THOUGH IT QUALIFIED AS A LEGITIMATE X-AEGIS TARGET...now every X2 ships want to anchor you.
There are Omega phasers that are hit/miss weapons. I forget what they are called.